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An actual relevant article on the relative dangers of drugs.

Started by Kai, July 01, 2012, 01:04:37 AM

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Nephew Twiddleton

I require email address to fulfill that request. Pm email address.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
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Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Kai

They seem to have been looking for a correlation between the interpretation by this group of experts and one from The Netherlands. And their general conclusion:

QuoteOur findings lead support to previous work in the UK and the Netherlands, confirming that the current drug classification system has little relation to evidence of harm. They also accord with the conclusions of previous expert reports that aggressively targeting alcohol harms is a valid and necessary public health strategy.

I did notice that the "Crime" category does not include use:

QuoteExtent to which the use of a drung involves or leads to an increase in volume of acquisitive crime (beyond the use-of-drug act) directly or indirectly (at the population level, not the individual level)

But that does seem to include sale. Since the experts were given the categories and had to define the activities that would contribute, it's not always clear exactly what is contributing to the score for each category.

If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
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Kai

The categories were also weighted, with the categories having the largest "swing weight" given a score of 100 for each cluster. And there were four clusters, Physical, Psychological, Social, and then harm To Others. So each individual category did not have a possible score out of 100, just the ones with the largest swing weight, i.e. the categories they deemed to be most important.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Nephew Twiddleton

I read part of it on the commute home (I have a physical copy- the bound volume I was looking for was missing from the shelves and I had to ask the main desk to print me off a copy, which I then scanned and sent to my work email). I was a bit antsy to get out of work and wasn't in the right mindset, but I did find that I was wondering what made them decide how to weigh everything the way they did.

For example, alcohol has the highest score. Objectively speaking, alcohol is a potentially dangerous substance. It can be addictive, and you can overdose on it. It can negatively impact your life, and it can have some very serious and potentially fatal health consequences. Yet it had a higher overall score than heroin and meth. I'm a little uncomfortable with this owing to the fact that if you start meth you're going to hit rock bottom in like 6 months. Most people don't end up stealing, staying up for days at a time, grinding their teeth down to nothing and giving head to score their next six pack by the time they're 22. I'm going to have to read it again and all the way through, but it's a particularly weird skew. Also, you're not going to get AIDS or Hep C from sharing a bottle.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
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Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 03, 2012, 04:28:39 AM
I read part of it on the commute home (I have a physical copy- the bound volume I was looking for was missing from the shelves and I had to ask the main desk to print me off a copy, which I then scanned and sent to my work email). I was a bit antsy to get out of work and wasn't in the right mindset, but I did find that I was wondering what made them decide how to weigh everything the way they did.

For example, alcohol has the highest score. Objectively speaking, alcohol is a potentially dangerous substance. It can be addictive, and you can overdose on it. It can negatively impact your life, and it can have some very serious and potentially fatal health consequences. Yet it had a higher overall score than heroin and meth. I'm a little uncomfortable with this owing to the fact that if you start meth you're going to hit rock bottom in like 6 months. Most people don't end up stealing, staying up for days at a time, grinding their teeth down to nothing and giving head to score their next six pack by the time they're 22. I'm going to have to read it again and all the way through, but it's a particularly weird skew. Also, you're not going to get AIDS or Hep C from sharing a bottle.

I bet that one of the factors is that meth is formulated differently in the UK, and wonder if another factor is that there are comparatively many people who try meth and then stop, compared to the relatively high proportion of alcohol users who consume it regularly over their entire lives.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Nephew Twiddleton

Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 03, 2012, 04:36:12 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 03, 2012, 04:28:39 AM
I read part of it on the commute home (I have a physical copy- the bound volume I was looking for was missing from the shelves and I had to ask the main desk to print me off a copy, which I then scanned and sent to my work email). I was a bit antsy to get out of work and wasn't in the right mindset, but I did find that I was wondering what made them decide how to weigh everything the way they did.

For example, alcohol has the highest score. Objectively speaking, alcohol is a potentially dangerous substance. It can be addictive, and you can overdose on it. It can negatively impact your life, and it can have some very serious and potentially fatal health consequences. Yet it had a higher overall score than heroin and meth. I'm a little uncomfortable with this owing to the fact that if you start meth you're going to hit rock bottom in like 6 months. Most people don't end up stealing, staying up for days at a time, grinding their teeth down to nothing and giving head to score their next six pack by the time they're 22. I'm going to have to read it again and all the way through, but it's a particularly weird skew. Also, you're not going to get AIDS or Hep C from sharing a bottle.

I bet that one of the factors is that meth is formulated differently in the UK, and wonder if another factor is that there are comparatively many people who try meth and then stop, compared to the relatively high proportion of alcohol users who consume it regularly over their entire lives.

Interesting point. It's possible that Brits do more cumulative damage with alcohol overall.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
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Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Junkenstein

It's not just possible it's quite probable.

Look at any urban centre over a weekend and judge the ratio of police to revellers.

Around here on a Saturday night it's quite literally 1 police officer to every 10 punters.

There's also a wealth of info regarding UK drinking culture in general, suffice to say it's not great. "Why have one drink when you can have 10, 4 shots, a fishbowl and a kebab" would probably be true for a large segment. Alcohol is very ingrained into the culture here, in several unhealthy manners.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

AFK

Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 03, 2012, 04:28:39 AM
I read part of it on the commute home (I have a physical copy- the bound volume I was looking for was missing from the shelves and I had to ask the main desk to print me off a copy, which I then scanned and sent to my work email). I was a bit antsy to get out of work and wasn't in the right mindset, but I did find that I was wondering what made them decide how to weigh everything the way they did.

For example, alcohol has the highest score. Objectively speaking, alcohol is a potentially dangerous substance. It can be addictive, and you can overdose on it. It can negatively impact your life, and it can have some very serious and potentially fatal health consequences. Yet it had a higher overall score than heroin and meth. I'm a little uncomfortable with this owing to the fact that if you start meth you're going to hit rock bottom in like 6 months. Most people don't end up stealing, staying up for days at a time, grinding their teeth down to nothing and giving head to score their next six pack by the time they're 22. I'm going to have to read it again and all the way through, but it's a particularly weird skew. Also, you're not going to get AIDS or Hep C from sharing a bottle.


I really think the legality and access of alcohol plays a huge factor in it being as high as it is.  I think if you had a much smaller user base that was more broken up in isolated pockets, it would rank much lower. 


I would really like to see this study replicated in the States and see how the outcomes compare.  I would suspect the outcomes would be fairly similar, but it would ve interesting to see how it all shakes out.
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Nephew Twiddleton

Quote from: The Bad Reverend What's-His-Name! on July 03, 2012, 12:02:11 PM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 03, 2012, 04:28:39 AM
I read part of it on the commute home (I have a physical copy- the bound volume I was looking for was missing from the shelves and I had to ask the main desk to print me off a copy, which I then scanned and sent to my work email). I was a bit antsy to get out of work and wasn't in the right mindset, but I did find that I was wondering what made them decide how to weigh everything the way they did.

For example, alcohol has the highest score. Objectively speaking, alcohol is a potentially dangerous substance. It can be addictive, and you can overdose on it. It can negatively impact your life, and it can have some very serious and potentially fatal health consequences. Yet it had a higher overall score than heroin and meth. I'm a little uncomfortable with this owing to the fact that if you start meth you're going to hit rock bottom in like 6 months. Most people don't end up stealing, staying up for days at a time, grinding their teeth down to nothing and giving head to score their next six pack by the time they're 22. I'm going to have to read it again and all the way through, but it's a particularly weird skew. Also, you're not going to get AIDS or Hep C from sharing a bottle.


I really think the legality and access of alcohol plays a huge factor in it being as high as it is.  I think if you had a much smaller user base that was more broken up in isolated pockets, it would rank much lower. 


I would really like to see this study replicated in the States and see how the outcomes compare.  I would suspect the outcomes would be fairly similar, but it would ve interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Junkenstein raises an interesting point though. It might be primarily cultural. I mean, think about it, how many drunk Frenchmen or Italians do you see (that aren't American)? Maybe it's just a stereotype, but I'm just thinking about how Boston compares to Midwesterners I know. Like, when I went to visit an old friend who moved back, I was like, "what do you mean you and your friends have two beers and call it a night?"

Boston's a drinking town. Matter of fact, it scored pretty badly on some recent study for alcohol use patterns. But it makes sense- we have a lot of colleges for one. And then there's the Irish factor, or at least American perceptions of Irish drinking patterns and imitating them (from my own observations of my relatives, you tear it up on the weekend, usually after Saturday vigil. What, you want to go to church the next day with a hang over?  :lulz:)

I recall one of my exes commenting on it too. She was like, people from my hometown just don't drink that much unless they're teenagers. If you have more than 2 or 3, it's really frowned upon, at least if you do it in the company of others.

And let's not forget genetic factors.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

AFK

Certainly, I believe culture is a factor that needs to be considered.
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Nephew Twiddleton

Ok i finished reading it and in the last three paragraphs they address some of the limitations of the study. They do flat out say this is only applicable to the uk as well as the fact that they dont address use of multiple drugs. I think typical usage patterns would be useful too or did i miss that bit? Also i was having trouble understanding if they were using population in a statistical or societal context.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

AFK

not adressing multiple drug use is a pretty significant limitation, unless in the UK it is very uncommon for someone to be a poly-drug user.  Which I find unlikely given that alcohol, nicotine, and marijuana are three of the substances in question. 


But, it is still a pretty interesting way to analyze the issue.  It was an interesting read.
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Nephew Twiddleton

Its a good start for further research. It seems to be an improvement on the dutch study. Maybe there will be a better study based off of this.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Nephew Twiddleton

Like dr. S said at a breakfast meeting once. Where theres smoke theres a drink.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

AFK

Cynicism is a blank check for failure.