Just because your decision had a reason does not remove your responsibility.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I'd just like to quickly point out that the hypotheses of the OP is the very definition of cock and fail.

[Reginald Ret]

did i SAY the victim was responsible for getting raped? NO! i said she was responsible for actively 'cathing his eye' that is all.

Oh, yeah, totally, she's TOTALLY responsible for being ALIVE and having a VAGINA. SHE WAS ASKING FOR IT!

Jesus, can you please just go away now? We already HAVE a 221.

i seem to be unable to explain that i don't think the victim is responsible for getting raped or for causing to get raped.

my examples were very bad, apologies.

one last try: for free will to exist one must be responsible for their actions, but only if you have a choice.
when do you say someone has a choice?
if 1 the options are equal
or if 2 their life is not threatened
or... 3 in all situations where you have the ability to effect a change

(i choose 3)

i really seem unable to communicate    ah well at least this was good practice.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

i don't think that you're having trouble communicating. from what it looks like, people understand your position (I do, at least). They just reject it.

[Adjective Noun]

Ok, to what level do you think people are responsible for their choices? After all, in your (perhaps ill-chosen) example, the girl presumably didnt know the guy was going to turn out to be a rapist.

Suppose a simple scenario, you are driving from A to B. You have a choice of 2 routes, practically identical in terms of distance and road quality. One road has a large patch of black ice on a tight bend, causing you to crash if you take that route. Who's fault is the damage, yours, the gritters (who presumably missed that stretch), someone elses?

[LMNO]

Regret, it seems to me that you're making the mistake of attaching a discernable linear narrative to the things that happen to a person, and assigning difinitive "cause", "effect", "blame", and "fault" to it.

Your refusal to trace the reasons or meaning behind actions further than 2 steps or so belies a willing passive ignorance that, while making life "simpler", also leads to horrifically bad conclusions.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

There is no general rule about responsibility that is going to apply to all possible situations which it seems you're grasping for. Furthermore, there are neurological anomalies, predispositions, and developmental stages that affect responsibility in ways that we're only beginning to understand. On top of that there's the "bedrock" of social psychology called the "fundamental attribution error:" people have a great tendency to overestimate the role of a person's character, and underestimate the role of situational forces in explaining someone else's behavior.

(You may notice that for lulz sake this error is magnified and focused until burning occurs. This is the correct way to cook a lulzcow and adds a satisfying ropiness to lail.)

[Reginald Ret]

Ok, to what level do you think people are responsible for their choices? After all, in your (perhaps ill-chosen) example, the girl presumably didnt know the guy was going to turn out to be a rapist.

Suppose a simple scenario, you are driving from A to B. You have a choice of 2 routes, practically identical in terms of distance and road quality. One road has a large patch of black ice on a tight bend, causing you to crash if you take that route. Who's fault is the damage, yours, the gritters (who presumably missed that stretch), someone elses?

the gritters.
the knowledge you have is ofcourse relevant. if you cannot predict the consequences of your actions then you can not be held responsible for the endresult.
just for the record TGRR came with that example, not that im trying to excuse my retarded response.

the reasons behind actions are important factors in the decision making process but if they are absolute in their power to change the outcome there is no choice to speak of, its all predetermined. If it is not possible to actively choose some option over the other(s) then there is no responsibility for anything ever.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm sorry Regret, I can't take the premise of this thread seriously at all. It's like Philosophy 101 for retards.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I think that this entire discussion suffers from IS/IS NOT syndrome.

I think Regret appears right in some sense... I, at least, consider myself responsible for my actions, even if those actions are in response to someone elses actions. I am responsible for everything that I choose to do. In his example of the car and milk truck... I would say that the driver may be responsible for driving into the river... but that does seem to be the best available choice that the driver had. Thus, while Responsibility may sit with the driver... Culpability probably does not. If the car owner was a friend, I'd bet that they would prefer a wet car that the insurance would take care of to a mashed car and friend, which the insurance would take care of... all except for the dead friend part.

The driver may be responsible for deciding how to avoid the collision, but not for the accident itself. To Illustrate, let's look at Regret's scenario and add an option.

The Milk truck is barreling towards our car, the river lies to the right, and some kids are playing on a sidewalk to the left. If we veer left, we'll mash a couple rugrats, but the car will be mostly fine. If we stay the course, the car, the truck and 'we' may get all mashed up, if we cut to the right, the car may get sunk, but we'll survive.

I think, in the above scenario, most people would choose the river... because, if they smashed a few kids on the bumper... they would consider those deaths to be their responsibility. Is responsibility limited to Left turns only? OR is the decision, the choice (whichever it may be), the responsibility of the driver?

However, while Our Actions may be Our Responsibility... I cannot agree that another persons actions are also our responsibility.

A rape victim is not responsible for the actions of the Rapist, just as the car driver is not responsible for the actions of the milk truck driver. However, each of us are responsible for our own actions. A rape victim may have NO CHOICE while the event is happening. The rapist may have weapons, or simply overpower the victim. However, the decisions post-trauma, in my opinion, appear as the responsibility of the victim... will they move forward with their lives, or will they spend the rest of their lives blaming every black man around for the actions of the rapist?

"Everything we are, Everything we want to be
is only happening in our reality- We Decide" - Dr. Phineas Waldolf Steel

[Jenne]

Rat, you gave the only logical interpretation that could be placed on this pile of bullshit of a thread.

[Cain]

Paging Aini, paging Aini....

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Regret, it seems to me that you're making the mistake of attaching a discernable linear narrative to the things that happen to a person, and assigning difinitive "cause", "effect", "blame", and "fault" to it.

Your refusal to trace the reasons or meaning behind actions further than 2 steps or so belies a willing passive ignorance that, while making life "simpler", also leads to horrifically bad conclusions.

QFT

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Rat, you gave the only logical interpretation that could be placed on this pile of bullshit of a thread.

*notes that there's a reason he's called "Chatterer"* 

[Reginald Ret]

i don't think i said that the actions of another person are our responsibility... but looking back i see how you'd think that.

Ratatosk you are my savior here thanks for clearing this mess up.

[Cain]

i don't think i said that the actions of another person are our responsibility... but looking back i see how you'd think that.

Ratatosk you are my savior here thanks for clearing this mess up.

Rata presented a totally different argument from you.

Just saying.