News:

FUCK YOU! MY UNCLE SAM DIED FROM NOT USING FACTS!

Main Menu

Today's LessWrong moment

Started by LMNO, January 17, 2013, 07:43:33 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Reginald Ret

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 26, 2014, 02:06:01 PM
If you want to approach arguing, from a win/lose perspective, then it makes more sense to me to turn the traditional paradigm on it's head.

We're arguing, you convince me I'm wrong - I win (I've just received a software upgrade)

I convince you that you're wrong - You win

Unfortunately, it rarely works out that way on account of primate ego/threat response :kingmeh:
I hadn't considered that losing was an option in an argument. And i also hadn't considered the ego/threat response.
Consider that considered and nwo i consider your reversed perspective superior.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: :regret: on March 26, 2014, 07:34:20 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 26, 2014, 02:06:01 PM
If you want to approach arguing, from a win/lose perspective, then it makes more sense to me to turn the traditional paradigm on it's head.

We're arguing, you convince me I'm wrong - I win (I've just received a software upgrade)

I convince you that you're wrong - You win

Unfortunately, it rarely works out that way on account of primate ego/threat response :kingmeh:
I hadn't considered that losing was an option in an argument. And i also hadn't considered the ego/threat response.
Consider that considered and nwo i consider your reversed perspective superior.

HAHA! I WIN!  :lulz:

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

LMNO

L          O             L

Reginald Ret

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 26, 2014, 09:30:25 PM
Quote from: :regret: on March 26, 2014, 07:34:20 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 26, 2014, 02:06:01 PM
If you want to approach arguing, from a win/lose perspective, then it makes more sense to me to turn the traditional paradigm on it's head.

We're arguing, you convince me I'm wrong - I win (I've just received a software upgrade)

I convince you that you're wrong - You win

Unfortunately, it rarely works out that way on account of primate ego/threat response :kingmeh:
I hadn't considered that losing was an option in an argument. And i also hadn't considered the ego/threat response.
Consider that considered and nwo i consider your reversed perspective superior.

HAHA! I WIN!  :lulz:
Yes you did, and without me losing! Congratulations!
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

The Johnny


Arguments are the confrontation of two diiferent givens and assumptions... so jumping at the opponents yugular prevents one from emphatizing and learning from their perspective... when i engage someone in an argument i WISH theyd provide reasons or evidence to why i am wrong...

Sadly, those reasons are poisoned by self interest or evasion from reality.  :roll:
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 26, 2014, 02:06:01 PM
If you want to approach arguing, from a win/lose perspective, then it makes more sense to me to turn the traditional paradigm on it's head.

We're arguing, you convince me I'm wrong - I win (I've just received a software upgrade)

I convince you that you're wrong - You win

Unfortunately, it rarely works out that way on account of primate ego/threat response :kingmeh:

That's how I tend to look at it.
P E R   A S P E R A   A D   A S T R A

ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞

I've changed my mind where I was mocked and insulted, because the facts ought to be more important than my poor little fee-fees. The recommendation to use kid gloves when debating seems well-intentioned:

QuoteDon't stop believing that you are right and they are wrong, unless the evidence points that way. But leave it at them being wrong, not them being wrong and stupid and evil.

But the evidence so far doesn't seem to support it. There have been numerous studies done where people with factually incorrect opinions were shown evidence to the contrary (without any sort of abuse of their character), and what do you know, their beliefs persisted.
P E R   A S P E R A   A D   A S T R A

Pæs

Quote from: Net on March 29, 2014, 01:31:42 AM
I've changed my mind where I was mocked and insulted, because the facts ought to be more important than my poor little fee-fees. The recommendation to use kid gloves when debating seems well-intentioned:

QuoteDon't stop believing that you are right and they are wrong, unless the evidence points that way. But leave it at them being wrong, not them being wrong and stupid and evil.

But the evidence so far doesn't seem to support it. There have been numerous studies done where people with factually incorrect opinions were shown evidence to the contrary (without any sort of abuse of their character), and what do you know, their beliefs persisted.

It sounds like evidence with/without mocking doesn't work either way, so I say we cut out the evidence and just go straight to mocking people who are wrong.

Reginald Ret

Quote from: Pæs on March 30, 2014, 08:32:04 PM
Quote from: Net on March 29, 2014, 01:31:42 AM
I've changed my mind where I was mocked and insulted, because the facts ought to be more important than my poor little fee-fees. The recommendation to use kid gloves when debating seems well-intentioned:

QuoteDon't stop believing that you are right and they are wrong, unless the evidence points that way. But leave it at them being wrong, not them being wrong and stupid and evil.

But the evidence so far doesn't seem to support it. There have been numerous studies done where people with factually incorrect opinions were shown evidence to the contrary (without any sort of abuse of their character), and what do you know, their beliefs persisted.

It sounds like evidence with/without mocking doesn't work either way, so I say we cut out the evidence and just go straight to mocking people who are wrong.
A form of "Do What You Will, The Fuckers Won't Listen Anyway"?
...
DWYW,TFWLA is my new mantra.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

Cain

Incidentally, LMNO, you might want to know that Yvain from LessWrong has his own blog at http://slatestarcodex.com/

It's pretty good, as I'm sure you would expect from him.  I knew he was a LessWrongian, but I only figured out Yvain yesterday, when reading the archives. 

LMNO


Cain

I also possibly forgot to mention he references Robert Anton Wilson and JR "Bob" Dobbs infrequently.

A lot of LessWrongians are our kind of people, it seems.

LMNO

With approximately the same percentage of insufferable twats, it seems.



LMNO
-reads the comments to LessWrong posts.

Reginald Ret

Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2014, 08:13:17 AM
Incidentally, LMNO, you might want to know that Yvain from LessWrong has his own blog at http://slatestarcodex.com/

It's pretty good, as I'm sure you would expect from him.  I knew he was a LessWrongian, but I only figured out Yvain yesterday, when reading the archives. 
I just spent one hour learning stuff when i could have been rage-quiting games i don't even enjoy! Damn you Yvain!
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

LMNO

Well, this is a fun one.  Applicable to the "uncomfortable topics" posts that Nigel, well, Nigels us with.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ww/undiscriminating_skepticism/

QuoteSince it can be cheap and easy to attack everything your tribe doesn't believe, you shouldn't trust the rationality of just anyone who slams astrology and creationism; these beliefs aren't just false, they're also non-tribal among educated audiences.  Test what happens when a "skeptic" argues for a non-tribal belief, or argues against a tribal belief, before you decide they're good general rationalists.