Not a Hypothetical.

[Don Coyote]

Also, there is the distinct possibility that death ends consciousness, and therefore, suffering.

You'd kind of want a pedo to suffer as much as possible, yeah?

I don't care about their suffering, actually. I just want them removed from the general population as efficiently and effectively as possible.

Life imprisonment with no possibility for parole is less expensive than the death penalty, and means that were it to be discovered that a mistake was made, the prisoner can be released.

No prisoner should ever be tortured or made to suffer, for anything. Can you imagine the psychological repercussions if "Daddy was tortured and killed because you told"?

It's not OK, ever, under any circumstances, for a wide variety of reasons.

THIS!!!!

[Doktor Howl]

And release people over technicalities just as often.

This is utter RWN propaganda.  Name one non-constitutional "technicality" that got someone released?

"Technicalities" include such things as tainted evidence, extracted confessions, improper or nonexistent miranda explanations, and entrapment.  By the RWN definition, "Technicality" = "your basic civil liberties and due process of law".

There are no "technicalities" that result from anything other than sloppy or improper police and prosecutorial conduct.

We will never have a perfect judicial system.  You can't when you involve humanity into the mix no matter what role they are playing.

Then I have to stand against the death penalty.

You want to re-read the ex's case?  A simple technicality. 

Summarize?

They convicted him on a hair and a fingerprint.  The only physical evidence they had.  Because they did not test every single hair in her hand they said it was prejudicial.  Overturned the conviction and set him free and he cannot be re-tried or charged for the same crime again.

I'd be interested in reading this in detail.  PM me a link?

[LMNO]

@Nigel: Perhaps "suffer" is a bit too bold on my part.  Prison should not be torture, but permanant confinement is certainly not pleasant, else it would not be considered punishment.  

Yes, I have stated before that I am a firm believer in prison as rehabilitation and redemption.  I'm just trying to see it from a different perspective.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

Also, there is the distinct possibility that death ends consciousness, and therefore, suffering.

You'd kind of want a pedo to suffer as much as possible, yeah?

I can get behind a sentence of daily torture.  

What?

Seriously, what would you do if some sicko messed with one of your children?

There isn't a hole deep enough for me to be happy with.

Two things:

1.  You'll have to admit that amendment VIII is void, which pretty much makes the entire bill of rights void.  Then you really can't complain when they drag one of your kids off on suspicion of being suspicious.

2.  If you torture people for a "good" reason, sooner or later, you'll do it for a bad reason.  Amendment VIII was written for a reason.

I respond to these things with the thought of how I would feel if it were my child.

I think this comes down to the "should one retain their civil rights if convicted of a certain degree of crime" debate.  For a lot of non-violent felonies people can get those back quite easily these days.  It isn't the 10 year ordeal it used to be.

However, for those convicted of murder, rape, torture and so forth, especially when done to children.  I can't honestly say how I feel about those people keeping any rights except the few basic bodily functions.

Like I said, I tend to look at this kind of thing as if it were my child.  If something like this happened to my child, I doubt I would care what terrible things were done to that person.

I can only imagine other parents would feel the same if it were their child.  You want someone to pay, someone to hurt, to suffer and agonize.  You want to tie them down in the everglades and cover them with honey and watch the fire ants tear them apart, then sit and wait for the gators to come in.

Is it right?  Probably not.  Would I care that it wasn't right?  I honestly can't say.

[Doktor Howl]

I respond to these things with the thought of how I would feel if it were my child.

I think this comes down to the "should one retain their civil rights if convicted of a certain degree of crime" debate.  

1.  Law based on emotion is always and without exception bad law.

2.  One retains certain liberties based on the fact that the government is forbidden from doing certain things under any cirumstances or conditions.  Torture is one of those things.  It's not that you have a right to not be tortured, it's that the government simply isn't allowed to do it.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

I respond to these things with the thought of how I would feel if it were my child.

I think this comes down to the “should one retain their civil rights if convicted of a certain degree of crime” debate. 

1.  Law based on emotion is always and without exception bad law.

2.  One retains certain liberties based on the fact that the government is forbidden from doing certain things under any cirumstances or conditions.  Torture is one of those things.  It's not that you have a right to not be tortured, it's that the government simply isn't allowed to do it.

I'm just going to back out of this thread. 

I will never think a simple jail sentence is sufficient punishment for someone raping a child.  And to be honest, I don't care what anyone thinks of me because of that.

[Adios]

As a parent I can see where Khara is coming from. I have gone "Frontier Justice" when it comes to people fucking with my kids before. Logic and reason come well after the initial reaction.

[Luna]

I do understand the emotional reaction, Khara.  I went through an attack by a stranger as an adult, I can't imagine what it would be like for a child.

The purpose of having laws (or ONE of the purposes) is to take emotion out of it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I respond to these things with the thought of how I would feel if it were my child.

I think this comes down to the "should one retain their civil rights if convicted of a certain degree of crime" debate.  

1.  Law based on emotion is always and without exception bad law.

2.  One retains certain liberties based on the fact that the government is forbidden from doing certain things under any cirumstances or conditions.  Torture is one of those things.  It's not that you have a right to not be tortured, it's that the government simply isn't allowed to do it.

I'm just going to back out of this thread.  

I will never think a simple jail sentence is sufficient punishment for someone raping a child.  And to be honest, I don't care what anyone thinks of me because of that.

No, a jail sentence is not adequate punishment. However, the difference between perfect justice and any human-based justice system is that humans aren't perfect, and the possibility of an innocent person never being convicted is ZERO. As I stated before, I am far less interested in punishment than in removing these people from society, which is currently not being done effectively.

If you EMPOWER THE SYSTEM to be used to torture people, the system will be abused, and people will be convicted and tortured or killed unfairly. Period. No exceptions. In fact, if child rape carried a death penalty, you can guarantee that the rate of politically expedient false accusations, complete with paid witnesses and manufactured evidence, would skyrocket.

So, while my PERSONAL convictions would prefer to see child rapists summarily executed, taking the real world into consideration means that I can't support corporal or capital punishment being officially institutionalized into our system.

It is already incredibly hard to get children to report abuse, because it's most often being perpetrated by their primary caregivers or other loved ones. I would like to see you address my question about the psychological effect it would have on a child if the result of telling was the end of the abuse, but only in exchange for the torture and death of their father or uncle. Even abused children usually love their parents.

[East Coast Hustle]

I agree with Nigel and Roger in terms of the context of our legal and judicial system.

I also agree with Khara that if that hapened to MY child, I'd have to work really fuckin' hard not to get some vigilante justice of my own. I have no moral or ethical problem with vigilante justice in certain contexts, but it can't be allowed to become a model of the actual legal system.

IOW, I don't believe in either torture or the death penalty, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't go all "Marcellus Wallace in the basement" on a motherfucker who desperately deserved it.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

There is no way you could have known, CPD.  It's awful, but you were just a kid, yourself.  Nobody wants to believe this kind of thing can happen to someone we care about, and your friend just wasn't equipped to deal with it.  

It's easy to blame ourselves, because if we "should have known," next time we WILL know, and can stop it.  We can't.  Cut yourself some slack, put the blame where it belongs, on the bastard that did this...

But, keep telling her story.  People need to know to watch for this kind of thing.  That's the best thing you can do for her memory.

Our stories share the same underlying themes. I didn't know that, then. Hers ends one way; mine hasn't, yet. Every so often a new verse of the same old song comes along and all I can hear is kids singing "Jesus Loves Me" while someone cries in the background.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I agree with Nigel and Roger in terms of the context of our legal and judicial system.

I also agree with Khara that if that hapened to MY child, I'd have to work really fuckin' hard not to get some vigilante justice of my own. I have no moral or ethical problem with vigilante justice in certain contexts, but it can't be allowed to become a model of the actual legal system.

IOW, I don't believe in either torture or the death penalty, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't go all "Marcellus Wallace in the basement" on a motherfucker who desperately deserved it.

I'd be the first in line to join you in some vigilanteism, to tell the truth. I, personally, support vigilanteism in some cases. My friend's sister was raped when she was 13, and instead of going to the police, my friend and his father, brother, and friend tracked the guy down and broke both his legs. The girl was spared the court circus (which probably wouldn't have convicted the guy anyway) and everyone felt pretty satisfied that justice had been done.

But the system cannot condone it. Although, I am glad when the court looks the other way and aquits someone who is tried for, say, setting her child's molester on fire.

[East Coast Hustle]

Yep. We're on the same page, and at risk of taking liberties with other peoples' opinions I imagine this is more or less what Khara means as well, it's just easier for me to articulate because I don't actually have kids so the very thought of this situation being a reality doesn't make me see red. I can certainly understand why it sparks that reaction in her.