So, for some unknown reason, over the past couple of days, I've reverted to the forms of Catholicism. I'm still not a Catholic, nor any sort of Christian. Fuck the Pope. He made Anakin turn to the dark side. Also, he was a Nazi. But there was this... just this sort of thing inside me that said "pray the Rosary." (hence the Gozery beads comment in the band names thread).
I prayed it in English, and it made my mind shut up. I prayed it in Latin, and it made my mind shut up even more. It wasn't the content. It was the formula. Catholic prayers are very formulaic. They're incantations. The Rosary is a very long incantation. Now, your conscious mind is following a set of instructions, and focusing exclusively on the rote instructions. Conscious thought is bypassed. I tried it with other Catholic prayers, in both languages (the Latin is superior. Even though you can rattle off a Hail Mary in English without thinking, some words here and there are going to distract. An Ave Maria is in a dead language, and therefore processed elsewhere, which can be easily ignored, as long as you are reading it off the page and not remembering it. Again, different programs).
I will admit, I did feel something odd when praying the prayer for Reparation for Blasphemy Against The Trinity (by Christian standards, I am damned regardless. I have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit, with the intent of doing so. But I felt pretty nice saying, "hey dude, sorry for talking shit about you." It wasn't enough to make me believe, but I think I hit a good combination of programs there to give me inner peace. I made peace with who I used to be, in two senses. The former Catholic, and the Pagan rebel. Don't need either anymore (my religion will probably remain Irish Paganism, but I feel good at not thinking of myself as a Pagan. As a matter of fact, resisting it. I should shun all labels). Or at least to make peace with my former god. And that's the important thing, no? Apparently my OS is Roman Catholic, no matter how many contrary downloads I make.
But back to the point. It's much easier for me to whip out the beads and run rosary.exe than to go, "Ok Brain. Let's make a deal. I'll be quiet if you be quiet." "OK." "No dude shut up. Don't respond." "Noted." " :argh!:" The Latin removes meaning. It is currently useful to me. Feel free to experiment with it too, and let me know what mind hacks you use because I find Catholic morality repugnant on many levels, and would personally love to see the cult die. Note though, doing the Rosary properly is distracting. That is, meditating on whatever mystery that the day is set aside for. You're supposed to be running a blind program. Meditating (which has a different connotation in Christianity than its Eastern counterpart) on the events of Jesus' and Mary's lives aren't going to help the hack. They'll get in the way.
TWID,
That is a beautiful and bare naked expression of your inner religious dialogue. Thank you for sharing that.
Quote from: E.O.T. on July 06, 2012, 05:58:55 AM
TWID,
That is a beautiful and bare naked expression of your inner religious dialogue. Thank you for sharing that.
I'm probably going to struggle with religion for the duration of my existence. I recognize that I need it. I recognize that I will always have a soft spot for Catholicism, again with the caveat, that I vehemently disagree with it, and not just on a rational level, but a visceral level. But I remember when we were burying my grandmother. I was unprepared for it, the intensity of the whole thing. And not just because she was a direct ancestor who I loved. In an Irish burial, someone close takes a whole decade of the Rosary. Dad jabbed me. Up until that point I was holding hands with him and my sister. And I wasn't paying attention. I was focused on my grief. But when dad jabbed me, even though this was the first time I had done this (I've been an integral part of an American Catholic funeral before a few times) particular culture specific geographic specific ritual, I knew exactly what to do. I let go of my father's hand and counted. Index up. Thumb up. Middle up. Ring up. Pinkie up. Reverse process because that's ten Hail Marys.
It made me realize, struggle against it and almost a year later though I may, that Catholicism without belief may actually be useful to me.
Over the past few days, I have even entertained regular prayer to St. Ciaran of Clonmacnoise regardless of religious inclination (my last name means Grandson of St. Ciaran's Follower). My current religious paradigm includes ancestor veneration. Well, my last name was first attested in 1052 CE. This means that one of my ancestors was active in the Catholic church over a millennium ago. I even took Ciaran as my Confirmation name, even though I did it to please my family when I had already converted. All of the ancestors I know were Catholic. Therefore, I must respect their afterlife model. It helps that he was a scholar. I was thinking of directing it in such a way as to kindle zeal in learning. Clonmacnoise was actually a very what's the word... instrumental monastery in evangelizing Europe and maintaining knowledge of the past. Viking raids notwithstanding.
I find the words of the Rosary to be spiritually irrelevant. I find the formula to be a good way to meditate for a Western brain.
And again, I can't really describe the feeling I got when apologizing to the mysterious third person of the Trinity, but I felt forgiven. I felt forgiven for something that the Bible specifically says is unforgivable. Don't know what happened there, but I'm glad I had the feeling.
I totally get it Twid. I have to admit, there have been days inmy past where I've thought about the, comfort, there was in religion. I was a Baptist as a young one. Of course, it isn't nearly as ritualistic or ceremonial as Catholicism, but there still were the comforts of being with a group of people singing, having that quiet reflective time for prayer, etc.
Ultimately, I still don't believe in any kind of Deity. But I recognize and empathize with elements of organised religion that have some level of benefit for an individual even if they, inthe end, are praying to and working for nothing.
I feel ya, Twid. I remember posting something about this relating to religious iconography on Esoterica Ltd. Perhaps it's a topic I should revisit.
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 06, 2012, 05:37:20 AM
So, for some unknown reason, over the past couple of days, I've reverted to the forms of Catholicism. I'm still not a Catholic, nor any sort of Christian. Fuck the Pope. He made Anakin turn to the dark side. Also, he was a Nazi. But there was this... just this sort of thing inside me that said "pray the Rosary." (hence the Gozery beads comment in the band names thread).
That's the monkey looking out into the jungle at night.
Even so, having a ritual that gives you peace is a pretty sweet thing, and I personally envy you for it.
Quote from: Phox, Mistress of Many Names on July 10, 2012, 01:40:39 AM
I feel ya, Twid. I remember posting something about this relating to religious iconography on Esoterica Ltd. Perhaps it's a topic I should revisit.
Once a Catholic right? It is easy to adapt though. The brain space is already taken up with it. You never really forget the more frequent prayers and such.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 01:52:45 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 06, 2012, 05:37:20 AM
So, for some unknown reason, over the past couple of days, I've reverted to the forms of Catholicism. I'm still not a Catholic, nor any sort of Christian. Fuck the Pope. He made Anakin turn to the dark side. Also, he was a Nazi. But there was this... just this sort of thing inside me that said "pray the Rosary." (hence the Gozery beads comment in the band names thread).
That's the monkey looking out into the jungle at night.
Perhaps. But the monkey knew what would distract the mind enough to get to the point where I could meditate. And truth be told, I could use regular meditation. I'm not about to go into a confessional booth (Priest would be there all day anyway, and I wouldn't really be sorry for a good half of it.) but if the format's already there, may as well make some use of it.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 10, 2012, 01:59:51 AM
Even so, having a ritual that gives you peace is a pretty sweet thing, and I personally envy you for it.
Due to my Pagan foolishness, I do have some rituals that I can use but they're not really useful for daily purposes. Plus they're not memorized, which is part of the point. If I knew some katas or yoga sequences that were of sufficient length and I had the muscle memory to just execute them without thinking too much on them, that would probably do as well. But the fact remains that I was Catholic until I was 16. That's my kata right there.
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:28:48 AM
Perhaps. But the monkey knew what would distract the mind enough to get to the point where I could meditate. And truth be told, I could use regular meditation. I'm not about to go into a confessional booth (Priest would be there all day anyway, and I wouldn't really be sorry for a good half of it.) but if the format's already there, may as well make some use of it.
I love confession time. The priests don't, for some reason.
Anyway, whatever works for you. Personally, I prefer pills and rude behavior.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:30:51 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:28:48 AM
Perhaps. But the monkey knew what would distract the mind enough to get to the point where I could meditate. And truth be told, I could use regular meditation. I'm not about to go into a confessional booth (Priest would be there all day anyway, and I wouldn't really be sorry for a good half of it.) but if the format's already there, may as well make some use of it.
I love confession time. The priests don't, for some reason.
Anyway, whatever works for you. Personally, I prefer pills and rude behavior.
...holy shit...
Maybe I will go to confession. :lulz:
I like the pills (or bottle in my case) and rude behavior too, but I do like to have some sort of control over myself. If I have to externalize that to a 2000 year old dead woman who got knocked up by some winged dude named Gabe for about a half hour for the time being, meh.
I'll probably end up ditching it once it stops being useful to me.
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:37:30 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:30:51 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:28:48 AM
Perhaps. But the monkey knew what would distract the mind enough to get to the point where I could meditate. And truth be told, I could use regular meditation. I'm not about to go into a confessional booth (Priest would be there all day anyway, and I wouldn't really be sorry for a good half of it.) but if the format's already there, may as well make some use of it.
I love confession time. The priests don't, for some reason.
Anyway, whatever works for you. Personally, I prefer pills and rude behavior.
...holy shit...
Maybe I will go to confession. :lulz:
I like the pills (or bottle in my case) and rude behavior too, but I do like to have some sort of control over myself. If I have to externalize that to a 2000 year old dead woman who got knocked up by some winged dude named Gabe for about a half hour for the time being, meh.
I'll probably end up ditching it once it stops being useful to me.
"Father, it's been 30 years since I've made confession. You have time, I hope." ---> Done at 11:45 AM.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:38:32 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:37:30 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:30:51 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:28:48 AM
Perhaps. But the monkey knew what would distract the mind enough to get to the point where I could meditate. And truth be told, I could use regular meditation. I'm not about to go into a confessional booth (Priest would be there all day anyway, and I wouldn't really be sorry for a good half of it.) but if the format's already there, may as well make some use of it.
I love confession time. The priests don't, for some reason.
Anyway, whatever works for you. Personally, I prefer pills and rude behavior.
...holy shit...
Maybe I will go to confession. :lulz:
I like the pills (or bottle in my case) and rude behavior too, but I do like to have some sort of control over myself. If I have to externalize that to a 2000 year old dead woman who got knocked up by some winged dude named Gabe for about a half hour for the time being, meh.
I'll probably end up ditching it once it stops being useful to me.
"Father, it's been 30 years since I've made confession. You have time, I hope." ---> Done at 11:45 AM.
Internet says there's a church two blocks from here and Confessions are Saturdays from 3-4 *or* by appointment. Hmmm...
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:42:03 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:38:32 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:37:30 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:30:51 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:28:48 AM
Perhaps. But the monkey knew what would distract the mind enough to get to the point where I could meditate. And truth be told, I could use regular meditation. I'm not about to go into a confessional booth (Priest would be there all day anyway, and I wouldn't really be sorry for a good half of it.) but if the format's already there, may as well make some use of it.
I love confession time. The priests don't, for some reason.
Anyway, whatever works for you. Personally, I prefer pills and rude behavior.
...holy shit...
Maybe I will go to confession. :lulz:
I like the pills (or bottle in my case) and rude behavior too, but I do like to have some sort of control over myself. If I have to externalize that to a 2000 year old dead woman who got knocked up by some winged dude named Gabe for about a half hour for the time being, meh.
I'll probably end up ditching it once it stops being useful to me.
"Father, it's been 30 years since I've made confession. You have time, I hope." ---> Done at 11:45 AM.
Internet says there's a church two blocks from here and Confessions are Saturdays from 3-4 *or* by appointment. Hmmm...
3:45. Have a laundry list of mundane, boring ass sins.
Maybe have something atrocious at the end. Do not claim that you've done anything seriously illegal.
Maybe you shat in the poor box at the other cathedral.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:43:55 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:42:03 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:38:32 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:37:30 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:30:51 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:28:48 AM
Perhaps. But the monkey knew what would distract the mind enough to get to the point where I could meditate. And truth be told, I could use regular meditation. I'm not about to go into a confessional booth (Priest would be there all day anyway, and I wouldn't really be sorry for a good half of it.) but if the format's already there, may as well make some use of it.
I love confession time. The priests don't, for some reason.
Anyway, whatever works for you. Personally, I prefer pills and rude behavior.
...holy shit...
Maybe I will go to confession. :lulz:
I like the pills (or bottle in my case) and rude behavior too, but I do like to have some sort of control over myself. If I have to externalize that to a 2000 year old dead woman who got knocked up by some winged dude named Gabe for about a half hour for the time being, meh.
I'll probably end up ditching it once it stops being useful to me.
"Father, it's been 30 years since I've made confession. You have time, I hope." ---> Done at 11:45 AM.
Internet says there's a church two blocks from here and Confessions are Saturdays from 3-4 *or* by appointment. Hmmm...
3:45. Have a laundry list of mundane, boring ass sins.
Maybe have something atrocious at the end. Do not claim that you've done anything seriously illegal.
Maybe you shat in the poor box at the other cathedral.
You know, since homosexuality is a hold over from Leviticus, and Leviticus has a whole shit ton of pointless rules "...oh, and I have worn clothing that has blended two different fabrics... I had an Irish breakfast this morning, that's like 5 different kinds of bad...." this could work.
I'd have to crack open Leviticus but the Old Testament is pretty good for the lulz.
And this will make you feel WAY better than meditation will. :lulz:
I mean, if they're going to consider one thing abominable even to this day.....
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:47:55 AM
And this will make you feel WAY better than meditation will. :lulz:
I am a bit curious to see what sort of penance I'll get. Very very curious.
(I'll do it too :lulz:)
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:48:54 AM
I mean, if they're going to consider one thing abominable even to this day.....
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:47:55 AM
And this will make you feel WAY better than meditation will. :lulz:
I am a bit curious to see what sort of penance I'll get. Very very curious.
(I'll do it too :lulz:)
Please to report on findings.
Oh, and if he says that shit isn't important anymore, quote Matthew 5:17 at his ass.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:49:52 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 10, 2012, 02:48:54 AM
I mean, if they're going to consider one thing abominable even to this day.....
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:47:55 AM
And this will make you feel WAY better than meditation will. :lulz:
I am a bit curious to see what sort of penance I'll get. Very very curious.
(I'll do it too :lulz:)
Please to report on findings.
Oh, and if he says that shit isn't important anymore, quote Matthew 5:17 at his ass.
:cracks open Bible:
:evil:
It will have to wait until next week. I will be in Providence during confession this week.
Dude, if you have to do something religious-flavored to make your mind STFU you can get the same effect with mantras and mala beads without the "YOU FUCKED UP NOW GROVEL" paradigm.
I mean serious. Catholic God is a B&D motherfucker.
Also, you can confess all manner of shit, and then have the last thing be...
"And I get too much of a boot out of pulling priest's legs."
They love that shit.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 10, 2012, 02:53:37 AM
Dude, if you have to do something religious-flavored to make your mind STFU you can get the same effect with mantras and mala beads without the "YOU FUCKED UP NOW GROVEL" paradigm.
I mean serious. Catholic God is a B&D motherfucker.
It's not so much the fact that it's religious (I already have one), it's that the pattern is already very familiar to me. I'll mess around with Eastern stuff too, once it becomes useful to me.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 10, 2012, 02:54:48 AM
Also, you can confess all manner of shit, and then have the last thing be...
"And I get too much of a boot out of pulling priest's legs."
They love that shit.
:spittake:
DO IT.
GET AUDIO. :lulz:
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 10, 2012, 03:01:37 AM
DO IT.
GET AUDIO. :lulz:
Portable audio recording might take some time but is also tempting.
I approve of these shenanigans. :lulz:
Twid, nicely articulated in the OP. Really, the method used to "catch" that focus doesn't really matter. But you've discovered the next portion of Mindfulness meditation.. i.e. what the hell do you do next. Personally, I find the Breath to be a key focus, as it's the one 'unconscious' reflex that we can apply conscious control over pretty consistently. I would start with a simple in-out [think "ONE"], in-out [think "TWO"], etc. Try to make the breathing regular. Once you get to TEN start back at ONE (the number is simply there to serve as an abstraction to focus on while you feel the effects of a long period of breath regulation while in a meditative state... otherwize, your mind will jump to the random sights and suonds around you and stay externally focused.. the counting helps refocus inwards, and we use the circular ten count to avoid "loosing the count" or subconsciously considering it a contest or something).
Sitting or lying down both work. If lying, try to breath deep into the abdomen (your stomach should rise and fall more than your chest). If you do note an internal sensation (I feel XX on my skin, I feel certain muscles tense/untense, etc), a knowledge the feeling and return to the count. Once you train the rhythm into the muscles you can drop the numbers (but most system usually replace them at this point, with a memetic to focus on, like "OM" ... yup, that's the purpose of that silly meditative device).
Once this is comfortable, the next Pranayama advice is usually to alter the length of each portion of the in-hold-out-hold breath cycle (yes, the breath cycle has 4 parts, not two). But the basics of Pranayama are what pretty much all 'eastern' meditations start from.
Quote from: Telarus on July 10, 2012, 04:03:53 AM
I approve of these shenanigans. :lulz:
Twid, nicely articulated in the OP. Really, the method used to "catch" that focus doesn't really matter. But you've discovered the next portion of Mindfulness meditation.. i.e. what the hell do you do next. Personally, I find the Breath to be a key focus, as it's the one 'unconscious' reflex that we can apply conscious control over pretty consistently. I would start with a simple in-out [think "ONE"], in-out [think "TWO"], etc. Try to make the breathing regular. Once you get to TEN start back at ONE (the number is simply there to serve as an abstraction to focus on while you feel the effects of a long period of breath regulation while in a meditative state... otherwize, your mind will jump to the random sights and suonds around you and stay externally focused.. the counting helps refocus inwards, and we use the circular ten count to avoid "loosing the count" or subconsciously considering it a contest or something).
Sitting or lying down both work. If lying, try to breath deep into the abdomen (your stomach should rise and fall more than your chest). If you do note an internal sensation (I feel XX on my skin, I feel certain muscles tense/untense, etc), a knowledge the feeling and return to the count. Once you train the rhythm into the muscles you can drop the numbers (but most system usually replace them at this point, with a memetic to focus on, like "OM" ... yup, that's the purpose of that silly meditative device).
Once this is comfortable, the next Pranayama advice is usually to alter the length of each portion of the in-hold-out-hold breath cycle (yes, the breath cycle has 4 parts, not two). But the basics of Pranayama are what pretty much all 'eastern' meditations start from.
The breath bit I can do- Breathe in for a four count, hold for a four count, breathe out for a four count, hold for a four count.
I must be doing something wrong with that though- I tend to tense up about half the time, usually in the shoulder area.
Thank you by the way. I always have and always will have a complex relationship with the Vatican. I like to describe the Church as an ex-girlfriend. I can complain about her, but if you call her a whore, I'm going to tear you a new one. Unless you're my bro. Then you got my back, and you've heard me complain about her before.
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 06, 2012, 05:37:20 AM
Apparently my OS is Roman Catholic, no matter how many contrary downloads I make.
THIS IS PERFECT PHRASING. Because there's something about it you can never get rid of. Ever.
I might have to try something like this, although there aren't very many prayers I remember (by myself, that is. At an actual mass, I'm 100% good). Anything that will make the noise go quiet for a while would be a blessing.
I'll have to figure out what I did with my rosary.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 10, 2012, 02:53:37 AM
Dude, if you have to do something religious-flavored to make your mind STFU you can get the same effect with mantras and mala beads without the "YOU FUCKED UP NOW GROVEL" paradigm.
I mean serious. Catholic God is a B&D motherfucker.
Not all of the prayers are like that.
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on July 10, 2012, 04:38:08 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 06, 2012, 05:37:20 AM
Apparently my OS is Roman Catholic, no matter how many contrary downloads I make.
THIS IS PERFECT PHRASING. Because there's something about it you can never get rid of. Ever.
I might have to try something like this, although there aren't very many prayers I remember (by myself, that is. At an actual mass, I'm 100% good). Anything that will make the noise go quiet for a while would be a blessing.
I'll have to figure out what I did with my rosary.
Funny thing is, the last big meet up we had with Trip and Cram and Squiddy in Connecticut, I remember talking to Eve about it. It's fucking true. You can be as non-Catholic as you want, but the... mark... is always there. There's always going to be a part of you that says Catholic. Even if it's just a part.
There's no fucking way I can escape it. All of my relatives are Catholic. I am named after a Catholic terrorist/freedom fighter/whatever and my last name has a saint's name in it. I was a Catholic. Technically, I still am a Catholic who is very deep into heresy and apostasy. I never officially quit. I officially joined after I unofficially quit. Because it was lucrative. My youngest sibling is recently confirmed (St. Brigit, after our recently deceased grandmother. She's a lot like me. Except a chick with shittier taste in music and half my age. :wink: ) But you know what? That's her religion. She believes in it. I haven't taken communion since I became my niece's Godfather, out of respect to my youngest sister. (To hell with my other sister's Catholicism. My goddaughter is Hindu. Which amusingly gives us common ground.)
http://saints.sqpn.com/patrons-against-strife/
Quotesee also; Denis of Paris
http://saints.sqpn.com/saint-denis-of-paris/
(http://saints.sqpn.com/wp-content/gallery/saint-denis-of-paris/saint-denis-of-paris-01.jpg)
Also known as
Denis of France
Dennis of Paris
Denys of Paris
Dionysius of Paris
Memorial
9 October
Profile
Missionary to Paris, France. First Bishop of Paris. His success roused the ire of local pagans, and he was imprisoned by Roman governor. Martyred in the persecutions of Valerius with Saint Rusticus and Saint Eleutherius. Legends have grown up around his torture and death, including one that has his body carrying his severed head some distance from his execution site. Saint Genevieve built a basilica over his grave. His feast was added to the Roman Calendar in 1568 by Pope Saint Pius V, though it had been celebrated since 800. One of the Fourteen Holy Helpers.
Died
beheaded c.258 at Montmarte (= mount of martyrs)
his corpse was thrown in the River Seine, but recovered and buried later that night by his converts
relics at the monastery of Saint Denis
Canonized
Pre-Congregation
Patronage
against frenzy
against headaches
against hydrophobia
against rabies
against strife
France
Paris, France
possessed people
Representation
beheaded bishop carrying his severed head – the head sometimes wears its mitre, and there is often a vine growing over his neck
city
furnace
http://onionbagblog.com/2011/10/08/patron-saint-of-strife/QuotePatron Saint of Strife
(http://www.onionbagblog.com/images/081011/4.jpg)
To firstsite! ...on Friday evening for a particularly crazed pageant to celebrate Sunny Colch's St Denys, the patron saint of town traffic congestion.
Or something.
Actually, a brief bit of online research before entering Britain's Oldest Recorded revealed that yer man Denny is the:
"patron saint of frenzy, strife, headaches, hydrophobia, rabies and possessed people."
Blimey.
It's quite a burgeoning scene apparently, and one that some three hours later, I would emerge out of the splendour that is the Golden Goose of firstsite and find myself not only with a headache, but also be in the very diabolical possession of a homemade Oyster hat.
If the cap fits, Comrades...
Our friends from firstsite helpfully added:
"firstsite reinstates St Denys Fayre which used to take place on the land which the firstsite building now stands. In past times, it marked the start of the oyster season and took inspiration from St Denys."
Expect nudity as well, was the message. I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. We're talking about bonkers homemade Oyster hats here.
Ah yes – about those hats...
Not wanting to miss out on the frenzy, strife and hydrophobia, @annajcowen and I arrived fashionably early, suited and booted from downtown Wivenhoe. A brief look around the Camulodunum exhibition and we saw boobs.
Brilliant!
"They've all got bigger boobs than me," observed the girl. Also helpfully observing was a very fine firstsite attendant, now nodding his head in agreement. It's the personal touch that makes firstsite so special, something that you are unlikely to find at the Tate Modern.
Yer man with the internal radio mic then directed us towards more mammary glands in the grand firstsite auditorium. What was showing for the evening was a most splendid early '80s home made soft porn flick, with birds with big boobs getting all wobbly and painting their Bristol's. I can't see Saint Bob appreciating it.
I'll have a bit of that, I thought.
(http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/emot-aaa.gif)
:lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on July 10, 2012, 04:38:08 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 06, 2012, 05:37:20 AM
Apparently my OS is Roman Catholic, no matter how many contrary downloads I make.
THIS IS PERFECT PHRASING. Because there's something about it you can never get rid of. Ever.
I might have to try something like this, although there aren't very many prayers I remember (by myself, that is. At an actual mass, I'm 100% good). Anything that will make the noise go quiet for a while would be a blessing.
I'll have to figure out what I did with my rosary.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 10, 2012, 02:53:37 AM
Dude, if you have to do something religious-flavored to make your mind STFU you can get the same effect with mantras and mala beads without the "YOU FUCKED UP NOW GROVEL" paradigm.
I mean serious. Catholic God is a B&D motherfucker.
Not all of the prayers are like that.
Yes, I've come acoss some very nice ones. Apologies if that came off like "Catholic prayers all suck".
I meant the whole pan-christian "you're so fucked God had to send his kid to die for you" idea.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 10, 2012, 08:23:02 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on July 10, 2012, 04:38:08 AM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 06, 2012, 05:37:20 AM
Apparently my OS is Roman Catholic, no matter how many contrary downloads I make.
THIS IS PERFECT PHRASING. Because there's something about it you can never get rid of. Ever.
I might have to try something like this, although there aren't very many prayers I remember (by myself, that is. At an actual mass, I'm 100% good). Anything that will make the noise go quiet for a while would be a blessing.
I'll have to figure out what I did with my rosary.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 10, 2012, 02:53:37 AM
Dude, if you have to do something religious-flavored to make your mind STFU you can get the same effect with mantras and mala beads without the "YOU FUCKED UP NOW GROVEL" paradigm.
I mean serious. Catholic God is a B&D motherfucker.
Not all of the prayers are like that.
Yes, I've come acoss some very nice ones. Apologies if that came off like "Catholic prayers all suck".
I meant the whole pan-christian "you're so fucked God had to send his kid to die for you" idea.
I liked to think about it as, "God's so fucked he couldn't understand why his creation was so disobedient, so he became one, and then understood. The rest of it, like the crucifixion bit, is frankly because God is fucking crazy. Have you ever read his manifesto?"
good thread, Twid. thanks.
i think anyone who has abandoned their given religion can understand the feeling. i would imagine it is proportional to their previous conviction of belief, no? apart from being fully steeped in it, how invested in it were you?
raised as a protestant, i would imagine that, although the basics are the same, there are some differences in the impressed textures left behind.
There is certainly the nostalgia for "knowing the truth" and the comfort that that lends. I would imagine that it is somewhat different than catholicism in that it is a simpler and more accessible truth. i wonder if the relative lack of convolutions makes it easier to let go of?
There is, it seems, some emotional attachment felt when singing the hymns (for me, at least). I've had the occasion to do this a few times when attending church with my parents since abandoning my faith. it seems to be a sense of belonging or kinship, as well as and associated aspect of the nostalgia mentioned above.
There isn't, however, any chants in the non-denominational variety of protestantism that could fill the meditative roll you laid out in the OP. Prayer was taught as a conversation. you just talk in your head. there's no formula. there's no right or wrong, as long as it is reverent and honest. I still 'pray' sometimes, but it feels like writing a letter to santa. no... it's more like talking at a two way mirror in case there's somebody on the other side watching you stuck in the room. or it's like talking to some kernel of 'other' inside your own head.
I guess that is of some use. introspection by imagining the perspective of god.
doesn't make your head shut up, though...
Before I start the content of my post, I want to assure you I am not being glib.
Ok, that's out of the way.
If it's the ritual your body and mind craves, then why not design a ritual that satisfies more than just your childhood nostalgia? Why not the "Ritual of the Augmented Pentatonic", or the "Ritual of the Subdivided Metronome"? I've found that I can get compltely tranced out when I play, especially when focusing on a specific physical task, repeated. It brings peace, and improves a useful skill.
Being a Catholic was the same as being- for a very long time I didn't know any non-Catholics. I'd heard about Jews and Protestants but I didn't really understand what that meant or what made them different (other than Jews don't believe in Jesus and Protestants don't believe in Mary, whatever that means.) There was one Protestant at school, and the only thing I ever knew about her religious convictions was that she didn't pray with us. Or- considering she was Protestant- maybe in her own way she was. Thinking something off the top of her head to God, like you said. I get that now. Vain prayer, after the manner of Pagans, I think that Protestants will call a rote prayer.
So, while I was a bad Catholic, I was pretty staunchly Catholic. I didn't like Church, so I didn't really go (except when school made me). Neither did my mom or my sister, or my dad even. Dad would occasionally make us go, and then not go himself. Mom would take us out to a restaurant instead. Dad was a hypocrite and a dick when I was a kid, but that's largely irrelevant. I didn't really like priests and nuns much. I thought it was unnatural to decide to not fuck for the rest of your life. But I was religious in my own fashion. Devout even. Said to myself that I might even go into the priesthood if that snag about fucking ever got lifted. I did pray on my own and read the Bible on my own. Told a bunch of Mormons to fuck off on my own (where the hell were my parents that day anyway?)
There was apparently an Uncle Chester at our parish. Hey, it's the archdiocese of Boston we're talking about here, it's almost like that was a requirement for Holy Orders, right? My mom thinks that I used to know something about that since I said very firmly that I didn't want to be an altar boy. I didn't want to be an altar boy because it was a dorky thing to do, and like I said, I hated going to church. Though, maybe I did know something. There was this one time back in the early 90s when one priest got caught in the news headlines, before everyone knew how rampant the whole thing was, and I remember thinking, "he's a fucking priest, aren't most of them like that? How is this news?" I didn't get abused though. I'm pretty sure I was the smelly kid.
I did like midnight Mass on Christmas. I always considered the 24th to be actual Christmas, and the 25th to be more, "Holy shit. Baby." I didn't particularly like Easter. Well, I didn't mind it, but it didn't have the same aesthetic as Christmas. Lent was pretty cool- I liked that. Matter of fact, I go vegetarian for a full lunar cycle prior to the spring equinox these days because I did really like Lent. I liked the Feast of St. Blasius (that's the one where the priest crosses two candles over your throat and blesses it. I thought it was a nifty tradition). St. Patrick's Day was the day dad cooked shitty food that stank up the house, and everyone else did the same, so I'd just go to McDonalds on my own when I was old enough to take the T. We always had it off of school- Boston celebrates that day secularly as Evacuation Day, when we tricked the Brits into thinking we had a shitload of cannons and they left the city to the rebels. Dad never explained to me what a St. Brigit's Cross was, even though that's a pretty big Irish custom. I have one over my door now, and made it myself in February (Pagans see little difference between Brigit the Saint and Brigit the Goddess. I do- one was a Christian- but I like that tradition too.) But when I was a kid and watched TMNT, I thought it was a cool toy shuriken, so I threw it around. Dad would catch me and get very angry, but never explain why. Aside from being a dick, dad was kinda useless at explaining shit. When he stopped drinking he would explain shit I already understood. He finally cut that shit out this year, presumably because I'm 30.
It's not just that Catholicism is very convoluted, it's also that Catholics are very strange people. Conviction of belief is not the same as devotion. You can be a staunch believer, and totally not practicing. You could be totally practicing and have strong doubts. I used to joke that Catholic school was good for making Pagans, atheists, anarchists and underage mothers. But Catholicism is also an aesthetic. I imagine that being a Catholic is a lot like being Jewish. It's not simply a faith, it's a culture, it's an identity that you're born into and die with, it's a borderline ethnicity to some Catholics "I'm Irish Catholic" rather than saying "I'm Irish."
Abandoning Catholicism took time, even after I said to myself, "I am no longer Catholic." It took me a long time to accept homosexuals. Even longer to accept marriage equality. It took me a while to become pro-choice (that's an interesting bit of cognitive dissonance here- there are a lot of Catholic Democrats, and they're not allowed to vote for pro-choice candidates on pain of excommunication. The state consistently goes blue though, doesn't it?). John Kerry's been excommunicated, I believe (which simply means that you are not allowed to take Communion, which means you're going to Hell). Took me a long time to renovate the afterlife. It wasn't easy to accept that the souls of evil people go unpunished.
Bits of it always remain. Shrapnel is an apt metaphor here, I believe.
There are of course occasions where I have to go to Mass even now. A baptism. My sister's Confirmation. A funeral. Gotta say though, not too many weddings- only my guitarist's since I was a kid. My own wedding will be Catholic, as per Villager's request when we mentioned future plans in passing. I'm not particularly pleased about that but she pointed out that such ceremonies are just as much for the families as for the couple.
There's a minor problem with that though. I'm going to have to go through the motions more than I'm comfortable with. When at Mass, I don't speak at all. I don't sing. I do not participate other than to stand and sit where appropriate. When others kneel, I sit then too (sometimes jokingly thinking to myself, "non serviam"). That's easier to get away with when you're not the center of attention. I'll probably let the Unitarian Universalists handle my disposal though. Regardless of what I believe at that time, Unitarian Universalist will probably cover it. The priests don't get to do my funeral. It would make my send off a lie.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 10, 2012, 04:05:55 PM
Before I start the content of my post, I want to assure you I am not being glib.
Ok, that's out of the way.
If it's the ritual your body and mind craves, then why not design a ritual that satisfies more than just your childhood nostalgia? Why not the "Ritual of the Augmented Pentatonic", or the "Ritual of the Subdivided Metronome"? I've found that I can get compltely tranced out when I play, especially when focusing on a specific physical task, repeated. It brings peace, and improves a useful skill.
Music can frustrate me as much as calm me. Especially if metronomes are involved. Music trances me out when I'm playing on stage, not so much in an individual setting. It's not the nostalgia. It's the ease and accessibility. It's automatic. If I fuck it up, I don't care, I just keep going. Music has the unfortunate side effect of getting stuck in my head. There's almost constantly some sort of music stuck in my head. Part of the point is to silence that, at least temporarily. The Rosary is to help me get better acquainted with the relaxation, the internal quiet, figure out how I'm pulling it off, and then to strip away the veneer of Marian devotion.