Some DMs put a great deal of effort into crafting a large, detailed, and intricate world that their players will adventure in. In and of itself, this is not a bad thing. Indeed, there are many ways in which this can be seen as a very good thing, as it adds a great deal of depth to the experience of roleplaying a hero in a fantasy world. Busting down the evil lich's door and beating the shit out of his minions and stealing all his cool stuff can mean a lot more to some players if they're doing it for a reason beyond "get the XP and loot everything."
That said, your vast and epic setting doesn't mean JACK FUCKING SQUAT if no one wants to play in it.
You can have the biggest, most decked-out sandbox in the world, but it's gonna be one lonely sandbox if you don't remember that your players are supposed to be the most important group of four, five, or six assholes ever to stomp around in it.
It doesn't matter if that is completely unrealistic, or if your players are technically working at the behest of much more powerful people than them. Your players are THE most central thing to your setting, and not one nanosecond of the hours of brainpower you've put into crafting this setting and all of its grand cosmic machinations will ever mean more than a dried-out dog turd to anyone if you didn't craft it with the express purpose of being a place where a group of adventuring dorks can have a grand old time fucking it up and leaving their mark on it.
If your players are storming an Archmage's tower to recover an artifact for some other, more benevolent Archmage so that the good Archmage can keep vast and terrifying beings of cosmic horror beyond mortal comprehension from piercing the thin barriers between the Material Plane and the maddening Far Realm beyond, that's grand.
However, your players will NOT care or be even slightly happy about it if their role in this world-saving drama is to putz around for six hours doing jackshit while the rogue slowly and laboriously picks his way through the various locked doors and the ONE combat encounter that happens during the first three hours is completely piss-weak and lasts three rounds.
If you didn't want to write up a fun, well-balanced encounter where the Rogue, the Fighters, the Wizard, and the Ranger all have plenty to contribute, because you wasted all your time and energy on thinking up the "big picture" aspects of your beloved setting, then maybe you should fuck off with trying to be a Dungeon Master. Write up your campaign setting and put it online or try to publish it (LOL), so that some DM out there who actually gives a shit about entertaining his or her players and wants a convenient backdrop for their adventures can make use of it.
Or just write up the whole thing as D&D fan-fiction and post it on LiveJournal for all to ignore.
Just stop torturing your players. There's a goddamn reason none of them are making it easy to pull a group together anymore.
Oh, hells, yes.
I take it you just had to sit through an episode of NPC Theater. :lulz:
Poor Cainad.
YOU should come to Tucson! We have the best DMs Evah.
Quote from: Nurse Freeky on March 14, 2011, 04:44:54 AM
I take it you just had to sit through an episode of NPC Theater. :lulz:
Poor Cainad.
YOU should come to Tucson! We have the best DMs Evah.
The "Waiting For Godot" version of NPC Theater, perhaps. We did not encounter a single character other than two shitty constructs for the first two or three hours.
I ask of you, what is the point in designing an encounter set in an Archmage's muli-level library where nothing happens except for an endless series of Search checks and the occasional Open Lock or Disable Device? I was the Rogue in this most recent bucket of fail and started frantically doing my job as quickly as I could, in a desperate attempt to get my friends, the other players at the table, to the action, wherever the fuckign DM may have hidden it.
Why, for the love of everything that is holy, make a locked door that has a complex series of increasingly difficult locks if there is NO PENALTY for failure other than wasted time?
I need the DM's name and address. A 10 digit grid coordinate would work too.
He needs to be hurt. A lot. With pain. Painful pain.
Quote from: Cainad on March 14, 2011, 05:03:49 AM
Quote from: Nurse Freeky on March 14, 2011, 04:44:54 AM
I take it you just had to sit through an episode of NPC Theater. :lulz:
Poor Cainad.
YOU should come to Tucson! We have the best DMs Evah.
The "Waiting For Godot" version of NPC Theater, perhaps. We did not encounter a single character other than two shitty constructs for the first two or three hours.
I ask of you, what is the point in designing an encounter set in an Archmage's muli-level library where nothing happens except for an endless series of Search checks and the occasional Open Lock or Disable Device? I was the Rogue in this most recent bucket of fail and started frantically doing my job as quickly as I could, in a desperate attempt to get my friends, the other players at the table, to the action, wherever the fuckign DM may have hidden it.
Why, for the love of everything that is holy, make a locked door that has a complex series of increasingly difficult locks if there is NO PENALTY for failure other than wasted time?
Didn't even trap the lock? Didn't even give it an alarm or anything? That's retarded.
THIS.
I flood my campaign with mook bozoes, and I let the PCs decide how many they want to bypass.
I mean, if I were to play Devil's advocate, I'd say that it could be that the DM is just doing this for the sake of suspense and that it probably precedes a session of extreme action and/or loads of dramatic revelations, but still. The central encounter of a session should always be at least somewhat deadly. Even I know that.
Quote from: Unqualified on March 14, 2011, 06:24:22 PM
I mean, if I were to play Devil's advocate, I'd say that it could be that the DM is just doing this for the sake of suspense and that it probably precedes a session of extreme action and/or loads of dramatic revelations, but still. The central encounter of a session should always be at least somewhat deadly. Even I know that.
Boredom <> suspense.
If I were any other player in the room, I'd be napping.
Now, the last session of our game didn't have any combat... but we were all doing stuff, info gathering, running around, and every player at the table was laughing his or her ass off, so, win across the board. It doesn't have to be combat all the time... but if anybody at the table is bored for more than 15 minutes, you're doing it wrong.
Yeah, tried to walk this no combat / dugeon tightrope myself last night. Tried to keep the exhibition and plot hooks streamlined and interesting.
To the PC's credit they are trying to play the game too, not just mess up everything to get experience. (Which they CAN do, it just won't go very well for very long, depending. :evil: )
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 06:49:56 PM
Yeah, tried to walk this no combat / dugeon tightrope myself last night. Tried to keep the exhibition and plot hooks streamlined and interesting.
To the PC's credit they are trying to play the game too, not just mess up everything to get experience. (Which they CAN do, it just won't go very well for very long, depending. :evil: )
Eh, I don't believe in fucking the DM's storyline for the sake of fucking the storyline. As long as I'm having a good time with things as written, I'll cheerfully follow plot hooks... with the occasional side road, just to keep ya on your toes.
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 06:49:56 PM
To the PC's credit they are trying to play the game too, not just mess up everything to get experience.
Does not compute. :?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 06:49:56 PM
To the PC's credit they are trying to play the game too, not just mess up everything to get experience.
Does not compute. :?
3/4 are new to tabletop roleplaying.
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 08:19:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 06:49:56 PM
To the PC's credit they are trying to play the game too, not just mess up everything to get experience.
Does not compute. :?
3/4 are new to tabletop roleplaying.
Oh, they'll learn. :lulz:
TGRR,
Point-whoring his way to the top.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:38:13 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 08:19:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 06:49:56 PM
To the PC's credit they are trying to play the game too, not just mess up everything to get experience.
Does not compute. :?
3/4 are new to tabletop roleplaying.
Oh, they'll learn. :lulz:
TGRR,
Point-whoring his way to the top.
Heh. Sooner or later... But, then, I haven't yet found the need to disrupt things, having a good time so far.
I'm fairly sure I could convince the lot of them to do a frontal assault on the city guard while I sneak quietly out the back gate with all the loot...
I was ready for that last session. :lulz:
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 08:46:53 PM
I was ready for that last session. :lulz:
Never doubted that for a second, we already tangled with a few, and HAD the potential of repurcussions with them last session. Trust me, if I decide to mess with your game, I'm not gonna post tactics HERE. :evil:
But, group of brandy-new players... I'll let 'em break in to the basics for awhile, before getting into Advanced GM Fuckery 301 with them.
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:38:13 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 08:19:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 06:49:56 PM
To the PC's credit they are trying to play the game too, not just mess up everything to get experience.
Does not compute. :?
3/4 are new to tabletop roleplaying.
Oh, they'll learn. :lulz:
TGRR,
Point-whoring his way to the top.
Heh. Sooner or later... But, then, I haven't yet found the need to disrupt things, having a good time so far.
I'm fairly sure I could convince the lot of them to do a frontal assault on the city guard while I sneak quietly out the back gate with all the loot...
"You guys keep the guards busy while I go start the helicopter."
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:52:54 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:38:13 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 08:19:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 06:49:56 PM
To the PC's credit they are trying to play the game too, not just mess up everything to get experience.
Does not compute. :?
3/4 are new to tabletop roleplaying.
Oh, they'll learn. :lulz:
TGRR,
Point-whoring his way to the top.
Heh. Sooner or later... But, then, I haven't yet found the need to disrupt things, having a good time so far.
I'm fairly sure I could convince the lot of them to do a frontal assault on the city guard while I sneak quietly out the back gate with all the loot...
"You guys keep the guards busy while I go start the helicopter."
Interparty Fuckery is an advanced class, run in stealth mode. When THAT shit starts, they won't know until it's all over and I have to explain to them afterwards how they were fucked. I ain't teaching them that's okay to do until I'm good and ready. Kinda refreshing to not have to watch my back EVERY bloody second.
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 08:55:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:52:54 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:38:13 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 08:19:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 14, 2011, 06:49:56 PM
To the PC's credit they are trying to play the game too, not just mess up everything to get experience.
Does not compute. :?
3/4 are new to tabletop roleplaying.
Oh, they'll learn. :lulz:
TGRR,
Point-whoring his way to the top.
Heh. Sooner or later... But, then, I haven't yet found the need to disrupt things, having a good time so far.
I'm fairly sure I could convince the lot of them to do a frontal assault on the city guard while I sneak quietly out the back gate with all the loot...
"You guys keep the guards busy while I go start the helicopter."
Interparty Fuckery is an advanced class, run in stealth mode. When THAT shit starts, they won't know until it's all over and I have to explain to them afterwards how they were fucked. I ain't teaching them that's okay to do until I'm good and ready. Kinda refreshing to not have to watch my back EVERY bloody second.
"Okay, I have a plan. You hold this bowl with the weird ball of fire, and wait for the bad guys to come around the corner. There's no time to explain. Trust me."
- TGRR, having just added Delayed Blast Fireball to his spellbook.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:57:17 PM
"Okay, I have a plan. You hold this bowl with the weird ball of fire, and wait for the bad guys to come around the corner. There's no time to explain. Trust me."
- TGRR, having just added Delayed Blast Fireball to his spellbook.
See, THAT's the shit that I'm NOT going to teach them until I use it on them.
Wait 'til they see my rates for in-dungeon healing.
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:13:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:57:17 PM
"Okay, I have a plan. You hold this bowl with the weird ball of fire, and wait for the bad guys to come around the corner. There's no time to explain. Trust me."
- TGRR, having just added Delayed Blast Fireball to his spellbook.
See, THAT's the shit that I'm NOT going to teach them until I use it on them.
Wait 'til they see my rates for in-dungeon healing.
"Can you spare one of those potions of cure serious?"
"I won't really know til we're done, right?"
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 09:16:50 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:13:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:57:17 PM
"Okay, I have a plan. You hold this bowl with the weird ball of fire, and wait for the bad guys to come around the corner. There's no time to explain. Trust me."
- TGRR, having just added Delayed Blast Fireball to his spellbook.
See, THAT's the shit that I'm NOT going to teach them until I use it on them.
Wait 'til they see my rates for in-dungeon healing.
"Can you spare one of those potions of cure serious?"
"I won't really know til we're done, right?"
It's early on for them. Raking 'em over now would be like kicking kittens.
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:19:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 09:16:50 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:13:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:57:17 PM
"Okay, I have a plan. You hold this bowl with the weird ball of fire, and wait for the bad guys to come around the corner. There's no time to explain. Trust me."
- TGRR, having just added Delayed Blast Fireball to his spellbook.
See, THAT's the shit that I'm NOT going to teach them until I use it on them.
Wait 'til they see my rates for in-dungeon healing.
"Can you spare one of those potions of cure serious?"
"I won't really know til we're done, right?"
It's early on for them. Raking 'em over now would be like kicking kittens.
Which is a sport in England.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 09:20:49 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:19:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 09:16:50 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:13:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:57:17 PM
"Okay, I have a plan. You hold this bowl with the weird ball of fire, and wait for the bad guys to come around the corner. There's no time to explain. Trust me."
- TGRR, having just added Delayed Blast Fireball to his spellbook.
See, THAT's the shit that I'm NOT going to teach them until I use it on them.
Wait 'til they see my rates for in-dungeon healing.
"Can you spare one of those potions of cure serious?"
"I won't really know til we're done, right?"
It's early on for them. Raking 'em over now would be like kicking kittens.
Which is a sport in England.
Yeah, well, there's not much to do for fun over there, I hear.
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 09:20:49 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:19:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 09:16:50 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:13:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 08:57:17 PM
"Okay, I have a plan. You hold this bowl with the weird ball of fire, and wait for the bad guys to come around the corner. There's no time to explain. Trust me."
- TGRR, having just added Delayed Blast Fireball to his spellbook.
See, THAT's the shit that I'm NOT going to teach them until I use it on them.
Wait 'til they see my rates for in-dungeon healing.
"Can you spare one of those potions of cure serious?"
"I won't really know til we're done, right?"
It's early on for them. Raking 'em over now would be like kicking kittens.
Which is a sport in England.
Yeah, well, there's not much to do for fun over there, I hear.
Ferret-legging. D/N/T.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 09:22:42 PM
Ferret-legging. D/N/T.
(http://www.dogproductshop.co.uk/smile/confused/confused0054.gif) (http://www.dogproductshop.co.uk) Jesus FUCK!
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:37:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 09:22:42 PM
Ferret-legging. D/N/T.
(http://www.dogproductshop.co.uk/smile/confused/confused0054.gif) (http://www.dogproductshop.co.uk) Jesus FUCK!
This is why I'm such a big fan of England.
It's the only thing I love that loves me back.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 14, 2011, 09:37:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 09:22:42 PM
Ferret-legging. D/N/T.
(http://www.dogproductshop.co.uk/smile/confused/confused0054.gif) (http://www.dogproductshop.co.uk) Jesus FUCK!
This is why I'm such a big fan of England.
It's the only thing I love that loves me back.
Makes kicking kittens look downright tame.
I've officially learned my New Thing for the day. Well, this, and that ECH will sit through a LOT of really bad videos for our enjoyment.
Hrm, next time I run a game, I will use this.
Really, making sure everyone participates and has a good time is trickier to pull off than you might imagine. For example, half my group (and I) prefer roleplay / problem-solving adventures, while one just wants to murder shit and another is kind of reserved and needs to be thrust into the spotlight in order to have fun. So it's a tricky balancing act. Lengthy combat sessions bore a couple players, lengthy roleplay bores a couple more. Variation is key in such a diverse group, but more single-minded groups I'd imagine it's not as much of an issue.
Our last session went by without any combat at all. While everyone else found something awesome to do (the rogue Magnificent Bastarding himself into becoming a high profile celebrity's drugdealer... the transmutationist and sorcerer conjuring ritual magic to save the airship they were aboard from dropping), after seducing a worker to get aboard the damn airship in the first place (yeah he's that guy) he was kind of non-participative for the rest of the session.
Oh, I know it can be tough to design an adventure such that everyone has a good time, especially when your players have different ideas about what constitutes a good session. I occasionally DM, and I'm about to embark on my first full-length (hopefully) campaign soon (Arcana Evolved, for those curious).
My peeve here, and with the DM who inspired this rage, is that when so much of your prep time goes into devising the machinations and goings-on of the larger world beyond the players (specifically, the machinations and goings-on that they have no ability to influence in-session) that you utterly fail to provide any form of challenge or interaction to all but one of your players, you've fucked up as a DM.
It's one thing if you can't get a player or players to get excited about the challenges you've set before them. It's quite another if you failed to provide those challenges in the first place.
In summary, my rant is not about the eternal "More roleplaying!" vs. "More combat!" struggle. It's about the somewhat less-talked-about "Being a goddamn Dungeon Master" vs. "Being a head-up-the-ass D&D fanfic author" debate.
Quote from: Cainad on March 15, 2011, 11:50:20 PM
Oh, I know it can be tough to design an adventure such that everyone has a good time, especially when your players have different ideas about what constitutes a good session. I occasionally DM, and I'm about to embark on my first full-length (hopefully) campaign soon (Arcana Evolved, for those curious).
My peeve here, and with the DM who inspired this rage, is that when so much of your prep time goes into devising the machinations and goings-on of the larger world beyond the players (specifically, the machinations and goings-on that they have no ability to influence in-session) that you utterly fail to provide any form of challenge or interaction to all but one of your players, you've fucked up as a DM.
It's one thing if you can't get a player or players to get excited about the challenges you've set before them. It's quite another if you failed to provide those challenges in the first place.
In summary, my rant is not about the eternal "More roleplaying!" vs. "More combat!" struggle. It's about the somewhat less-talked-about "Being a goddamn Dungeon Master" vs. "Being a head-up-the-ass D&D fanfic author" debate.
Which is why a good DM is prepared AND able to fucking pull shit out of his ears, ass and hip pockets as needed should the PCs decide to not enter the scary cave system.
Quote from: Shatterbrain on March 15, 2011, 02:32:27 PM
Really, making sure everyone participates and has a good time is trickier to pull off than you might imagine. For example, half my group (and I) prefer roleplay / problem-solving adventures, while one just wants to murder shit and another is kind of reserved and needs to be thrust into the spotlight in order to have fun. So it's a tricky balancing act. Lengthy combat sessions bore a couple players, lengthy roleplay bores a couple more. Variation is key in such a diverse group, but more single-minded groups I'd imagine it's not as much of an issue.
Our last session went by without any combat at all. While everyone else found something awesome to do (the rogue Magnificent Bastarding himself into becoming a high profile celebrity's drugdealer... the transmutationist and sorcerer conjuring ritual magic to save the airship they were aboard from dropping), after seducing a worker to get aboard the damn airship in the first place (yeah he's that guy) he was kind of non-participative for the rest of the session.
Also, may I say, good sir, that your game sounds completely apeshit bananas and seems like a lot of fun.
Our player group is, mercifully, pretty well balanced in terms of what we want, with some variations. Each of us can derive satisfaction from either roleplaying, skill-based enounters, or combat, just as long as we feel like we're
doing something other than faffing about. One guy enjoys coming up with weird ways to overcome obstacles, another guy is happy as long as he can make use of his character's abilities (whatever those may be) from time to time, one girl just loves the spectacle of imagining epic acts of heroism and derring-do, and I tend to plow towards my character's perceived goal (regardless of what it is) with as much urgency as I can get away with.
Quote from: Cainad on March 16, 2011, 12:02:20 AM
Quote from: Shatterbrain on March 15, 2011, 02:32:27 PM
Really, making sure everyone participates and has a good time is trickier to pull off than you might imagine. For example, half my group (and I) prefer roleplay / problem-solving adventures, while one just wants to murder shit and another is kind of reserved and needs to be thrust into the spotlight in order to have fun. So it's a tricky balancing act. Lengthy combat sessions bore a couple players, lengthy roleplay bores a couple more. Variation is key in such a diverse group, but more single-minded groups I'd imagine it's not as much of an issue.
Our last session went by without any combat at all. While everyone else found something awesome to do (the rogue Magnificent Bastarding himself into becoming a high profile celebrity's drugdealer... the transmutationist and sorcerer conjuring ritual magic to save the airship they were aboard from dropping), after seducing a worker to get aboard the damn airship in the first place (yeah he's that guy) he was kind of non-participative for the rest of the session.
Also, may I say, good sir, that your game sounds completely apeshit bananas and seems like a lot of fun.
It was a good session. :D I might post the story sometime. The next session is going to be horror-themed, and if it goes half as well as I have it prepped the players should be shitting their pants and their characters should be rolling fright checks high enough to develop permanent mental disadvantages (running GURPS).
I've played with GM's who have their world so detailed that it exists without the players, literally evolving as time goes on... I got so bored I quit and that was the first and only campaign I ever quit from boredom. If your character literally has nothing whatsoever to do for an entire game session something is severely wrong.
The thing that gets me as a GM is what to do when the PC's (who are supposed to be heroes in a particular game) simply don't give a shit about any plot hook thrown their way. It's one player I have the most trouble with. He goes out of his way to avoid every plot hook, no matter how suited to his character it is. I mean I can pull adventures and changes in direction out of thin air with the best of them but he makes me want to bash my head into a wall...
Quote from: Wyldkat on April 08, 2011, 08:15:39 AM
I've played with GM's who have their world so detailed that it exists without the players, literally evolving as time goes on... I got so bored I quit and that was the first and only campaign I ever quit from boredom. If your character literally has nothing whatsoever to do for an entire game session something is severely wrong.
The thing that gets me as a GM is what to do when the PC's (who are supposed to be heroes in a particular game) simply don't give a shit about any plot hook thrown their way. It's one player I have the most trouble with. He goes out of his way to avoid every plot hook, no matter how suited to his character it is. I mean I can pull adventures and changes in direction out of thin air with the best of them but he makes me want to bash my head into a wall...
Hey Wildcat,
Iiiiinteresting to find out you game and GM. For situations like the above, I think the concepts of 'Flags' and 'Bangs!' are good to work with. Let me dig up some links. Some of the following terms were whiped up in the 'Indie' RPG community and there's a lot of hoo-ha about definitions. I suggest that if your not familiar with things like GNS (Gamist/Narrativist/Simulationist motivations), and The Big Model (what came after GNS), and the differences between them, just ignore those terms or use them in their broadest sense.
Ok, I discuss things like Kickers, Flags, and Bangs in this thread: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=21176.0
And actually I give an overview of "The Big Model" there, so you can get the rest of the ideas in context.
TL;DR - Force your players to write down something about their character's Story
that they as Players care about (not something that "their character cares about"**). Hammer this "Flag" and give XP and other rewards for directly addressing threats to this concept/person/thing.
** -"I want to see my Paladin KILL DEMONS and SPLATTER THEIR ICHOR ALL OVER THE WALLS" is good. Don't accept "
My character doesn't really have anything that ties him down" as that is
a cop out. The Flag is supposed to be
something that the PLAYER cares about. I know I'm hammering this, but it's the key to making techniques like Bangs and Kickers work.
Quote from: Telarus on April 08, 2011, 08:37:44 AM
Quote from: Wyldkat on April 08, 2011, 08:15:39 AM
I've played with GM's who have their world so detailed that it exists without the players, literally evolving as time goes on... I got so bored I quit and that was the first and only campaign I ever quit from boredom. If your character literally has nothing whatsoever to do for an entire game session something is severely wrong.
The thing that gets me as a GM is what to do when the PC's (who are supposed to be heroes in a particular game) simply don't give a shit about any plot hook thrown their way. It's one player I have the most trouble with. He goes out of his way to avoid every plot hook, no matter how suited to his character it is. I mean I can pull adventures and changes in direction out of thin air with the best of them but he makes me want to bash my head into a wall...
Hey Wildcat,
Iiiiinteresting to find out you game and GM. For situations like the above, I think the concepts of 'Flags' and 'Bangs!' are good to work with. Let me dig up some links. Some of the following terms were whiped up in the 'Indie' RPG community and there's a lot of hoo-ha about definitions. I suggest that if your not familiar with things like GNS (Gamist/Narrativist/Simulationist motivations), and The Big Model (what came after GNS), and the differences between them, just ignore those terms or use them in their broadest sense.
Thanks, I'll look that stuff up and read the thread you linked to. I've actually been gaming and GMing for about two decades. My husband owns a game store (rpgs, ccgs, table top, board games, a few used console games). I live in a geek commune (long story) and there are at least five systems and nearly twice that many games going at any point in time. Problem is getting people in gear to actually play on a semi-regular basis. I even started up an online story based gaming forum, but had the same problem with people being flaky.
I normally don't have too many issues with my players, but this one person tends to always play that way and I've sort of run out of ideas on how to deal with it.