Thirteenthers

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in Aneristic Delusions, but since it's mostly my own craziness with only a tenuous connection to current political events, I sided towards putting it here.

Have you heard about these so-called "thirteenther" people?  I don't think their movement is very big.  Anyway, they believe that contrary to what everyone else believes, that the Titles of Nobility Amendment (TONA) was in fact ratified as the 13th amendment and has been the law of the land since 1819, but some sneaky conspiracy of lawyers secretly had it unlawfully removed from the constitution during or immediately after the civil war.  This is all based on the fact that there happen to be existing copies of the constitution from that era that were printed with this amendment.

This is the text of the amendment, emphasis mine:

If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain, any title of nobility  or honour, or shall, without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them.

What brought this to my attention was a story about the Iowa GOP having a plank in their platform about reintroducing and ratifying TONA.  I don't believe they buy into the whole thirteenther agenda, but are just doing it as a snub to Obama for accepting the Nobel Prize, which they apparently consider to be an emolument from a foreign power.

What gets interesting about the thirteenther movement is that they take a very broad view of what constitutes a title of nobility or honor, such that it would include lawyers and bankers, so if TONA is the law of the land, then lawyers and bankers should be stripped of citizenship and barred from participation in government.  That gets my attention, and I'm starting to really like this movement.

Now what's REALLY interesting is that since they believe that TONA has been the official law of the land since 1819, and since the federal government has been primarily run by bankers and lawyers, that virtually every action taken by the federal government since 1819 is illegitimate.  So by my reckoning, that means corporate personhood goes away, Kelo v. New London goes away, war on drugs goes away, the federal reserve goes away, and the gold standard comes back. Florida goes back to Spain, Texas reverts back to an independent republic, the American Southwest goes back to Mexico, the Pacific Northwest goes back to England, Alaska goes back to Russia, and Hawaii reverts back to an independent Kingdom.  Several states including Alabama, Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, the Dakotas, and Oklahoma all lose their statehood status.  The Department of Homeland Security, Department of Defense, CIA, FBI, ATF, TTB, DEA -- all gone.

So this is all sounding really good to me, but I had a grave concern, and that was that it would also mean the undoing of all the amendments and federal court decisions having to do with civil rights.  I was discussing this with a friend of mine and mentioned this concern, and his response was short and to the point, "What civil rights?  The ones the Patriot Act took away?"  

Touché.

OK, so now the only issue I have is that I don't believe their claim about the amendment being ratified and then secretly removed.  But I guess that issue is moot, because, I mean who cares what I believe or don't believe?  Certainly not anyone with any power.

But like I said, I'm not sure there is actually much of a movement out there.  My googling leads me to believe the so-called movement is nothing more than maybe five or six ultra-right-wing kooks with websites.  I believe that Newsweek journalist may have been playing them up a bit to make his story more sensational.

Here are links to a couple of Thirteenther sites if you're curious:
http://www.w3f.com/patriots/13/13th-01.html
http://www.constitutionalconcepts.org/13thamendment.htm

[Requia ☣]

Ok, I've thought about this, and I can't for the life of me figure out why people would care right now.  Outside of a few asshats who thought buying titles of nobility would be amusing, do we care about this stuff at all anymore?  Is there some politician whose secretly a Saudi prince they want kicked out?

This may be the lamest conspiracy theory ever,

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

Ok, I've thought about this, and I can't for the life of me figure out why people would care right now.  Outside of a few asshats who thought buying titles of nobility would be amusing, do we care about this stuff at all anymore?  Is there some politician whose secretly a Saudi prince they want kicked out?

This may be the lamest conspiracy theory ever,

I think the people in the Iowa GOP who are bringing it up now are the people who believe that Obama is not really a US citizen, and believe that this amendment means that his acceptance of the Nobel prize automatically strips him of the citizenship that he already doesn't have, or something.  Never mind the fact that in the remote chance that they get their way, then their home state is disbanded.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Hawaii was a republic prior to becoming a US territory. The monarchy was overthrown.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Ok, I've thought about this, and I can't for the life of me figure out why people would care right now.  Outside of a few asshats who thought buying titles of nobility would be amusing, do we care about this stuff at all anymore?  Is there some politician whose secretly a Saudi prince they want kicked out?

This may be the lamest conspiracy theory ever,

I think the people in the Iowa GOP who are bringing it up now are the people who believe that Obama is not really a US citizen, and believe that this amendment means that his acceptance of the Nobel prize automatically strips him of the citizenship that he already doesn't have, or something.  Never mind the fact that in the remote chance that they get their way, then their home state is disbanded.

I don't think that even in the event that it was successful that it would have the far-sweeping consequences that you presume. All previous activities would still be considered valid, and people wouldn't have their citizenship retroactively revoked.

[Adios]

Ok, I've thought about this, and I can't for the life of me figure out why people would care right now.  Outside of a few asshats who thought buying titles of nobility would be amusing, do we care about this stuff at all anymore?  Is there some politician whose secretly a Saudi prince they want kicked out?

This may be the lamest conspiracy theory ever,

This.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Ok, I've thought about this, and I can't for the life of me figure out why people would care right now.  Outside of a few asshats who thought buying titles of nobility would be amusing, do we care about this stuff at all anymore?  Is there some politician whose secretly a Saudi prince they want kicked out?

This may be the lamest conspiracy theory ever,

This.

Pretty much. You can't even laugh at it.

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

Hawaii was a republic prior to becoming a US territory. The monarchy was overthrown.

Thanks.  I didn't know that.

I don't think that even in the event that it was successful that it would have the far-sweeping consequences that you presume. All previous activities would still be considered valid, and people wouldn't have their citizenship retroactively revoked.

I know, but some of the material I read showed that there are people who really believe that TONA has been the law of the land since 1819 and that virtually every action by the federal government since then is invalid.  I was exploring what it would be like if they were to get their way, and I was attempting to carry their idea to its outlandish conclusion.

Ok, I've thought about this, and I can't for the life of me figure out why people would care right now.  Outside of a few asshats who thought buying titles of nobility would be amusing, do we care about this stuff at all anymore?  Is there some politician whose secretly a Saudi prince they want kicked out?

This may be the lamest conspiracy theory ever,

This.

Pretty much. You can't even laugh at it.

I laughed at it.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Hawaii was a republic prior to becoming a US territory. The monarchy was overthrown.

Thanks.  I didn't know that.

I don't think that even in the event that it was successful that it would have the far-sweeping consequences that you presume. All previous activities would still be considered valid, and people wouldn't have their citizenship retroactively revoked.

I know, but some of the material I read showed that there are people who really believe that TONA has been the law of the land since 1819 and that virtually every action by the federal government since then is invalid.  I was exploring what it would be like if they were to get their way, and I was attempting to carry their idea to its outlandish conclusion.

Ok, I've thought about this, and I can't for the life of me figure out why people would care right now.  Outside of a few asshats who thought buying titles of nobility would be amusing, do we care about this stuff at all anymore?  Is there some politician whose secretly a Saudi prince they want kicked out?

This may be the lamest conspiracy theory ever,

This.

Pretty much. You can't even laugh at it.

I laughed at it.

Doesn't have enough New World Order, black helicopters or RFID chips.

[BabylonHoruv]

I am from Washington, I am going to bve moving back there soon hopefully.  I would be pretty happy about it if they gave it back to Canada, assuming that the Canadians let us all become Canadian.