Obama - the first QUANTUM PRESIDENT!!

[Mangrove]

Is he a particle? Is he a wave? Is he a Socialist? Is he facist? If he's put in a box with Schrodinger's cat, will he live or die? Does he have political superposition? How does one 'collapse' him into political reality?

Why it depends on who is observing because he is AMERICA'S FIRST QUANTUM PRESIDENT!

All joking aside (and yes, I deliberately used the 'Q word' to both attract and annoy) we seem to be in a condition whereby it's become really fucking difficult to know what is going on with anything, especially when it comes to major political figures.

Now, just for the record I am not making a pro or anti Obama position so much as trying to figure out WTF is going on.

Cain, very ably supplied this list -->   http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=23681.0 and it's accompanying links. The bottom line seems that the current administration is Bush's unoffical 3rd term.

Meanwhile, while ambling around my local Barnes & Noble on Friday I came across the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Courting-Disaster-America-Barack-Inviting/dp/1596986034/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265131286&sr=8-1

Here's the jacket blurb:

Editorial Reviews
Product Description
White House speechwriter Marc Thiessen was locked in a secure room and given access to the most sensitive intelligence when he was tasked to write President George W. Bush's 2006 speech explaining the CIA's interrogation program and why Congress should authorize it. Few know more about these CIA operations than Thiessen, and in his new book, Courting Disaster, he documents just how effective the CIA's interrogations were in foiling attacks on America, penetrating al-Qaeda's high command, and providing our military with actionable intelligence. Thiessen also shows how reckless President Obama has been in shutting down the CIA's program and releasing secret documents that have aided our enemies. Courting Disaster proves:

How the CIA program thwarted specific deadly attacks against the U.S.
Why "enhanced interrogation" was not torture by any reasonable legal or moral standard
How the information gained by "enhanced interrogation" could not have been acquired any other way
How President Obama's actions since taking office have left America much more vulnerable to attack

In chilling detail, Thiessen reveals how close the terrorists came to striking again, how intelligence gained from "enhanced interrogation" repeatedly stymied their plots, and how President Obama's dismantling of this CIA program is inviting disaster for America.


From the Inside Flap
Waterboarding Al Qaeda Leaders Prevented Terrorist Attacks and Saved Thousands of Lives...

Now Barack Obama Wants to Prosecute The Men and Women Who Kept Us Safe

Marc Thiessen knows more than almost anyone outside the CIA about what went on at CIA "black sites" and at the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. As chief speechwriter for President Bush, he was given unprecedented access to some of the most sensitive intelligence our government possessed on al Qaeda terrorists. He has since spent countless hours interviewing the men and women involved in the interrogations at every level—from Vice President Dick Cheney to the interrogators themselves. What he reveals is a shocking, thoroughly documented account of just how close we came to suffering follow-on 9/11 attacks, how so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques" (including waterboarding) were directly responsible for unearthing the actionable intelligence that foiled them, and the extraordinary measures the Bush administration took to stay well within the bounds of what was not only legally but morally right.

Courting Disaster shows how America's dedicated intelligence professionals went head-to-head with the world's most dangerous terrorists, and won—only to have Barack Obama expose America's secrets to the enemy, endorse smears against our intelligence officers, and put them at risk of prosecution for defending our country. In Courting Disaster, Thiessen reveals:

Why "enhanced interrogation techniques" did not qualify as torture by any objective standard
Specific terrorist plots foiled by the CIA, based on information that came from "enhanced interrogation"—ranging from attacks against Los Angeles and London to the breaking up of an al Qaeda cell that was developing anthrax for terrorist attacks inside the United States
New evidence that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi knew about and approved CIA waterboarding
The real stories of abuse at Guantanamo—not of the detainees by the guards, but of the guards by the detainees, and how released detainees have returned to the jihad
How the Obama administration is giving captured terrorists more legal rights than are granted to legitimate prisoners of war—and denying our intelligence officers tools that police officers use everyday to question common criminals
How information released by Barack Obama has aided our enemies and put America at greater risk of another terrorist attack

Step right up Ladeez an Gentlemen....see the magnificent Quantum President! He's PRO-TORTURE, He's ANTI-TORTURE  - ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!

He's the new BUSH, he's nothing like BUSH - ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!
He's denying detainees of their rights yet, he's giving them more rights than US citizens!!

arghrgaarghrgarhgarhgarhahrgahrgahargh*





*plea for sanity

[Kai]

Depends upon the superposition of the State.

[Jasper]

Don't worry Mangrove, you're not losing your mind, they are.  Distinctions like 'socialist' and 'democrat' are impossible in this case.  These days it seems like politicians cherrypick convenient ideologies for individual cases, depending on what's convenient at the time.  There's so much disinformation now that a politician can easily get away with saying one thing, doing another, and then changing what they said and doing something entirely different.  Their actions don't coincide with very much of what they say, like schizophrenics I used to take care of.  

[Telarus]

Depends upon the superposition of the State.

 

[Mangrove]

Depends upon the superposition of the State.

You're too clever for your own good!

[Mangrove]

I think all this is a great lesson about the BIP. As RWHN pointed out a while back, there never used to be any such thing as Red State vs Blue State and now this has become an enormous super bar added to the national BIP cell.

The polarization of politcal reportage is so extreme now it almost seems like it really doesn't fucking matter any more what any candidate says or does. What they say/do appears to be very distant from what people think they say/do.

Let's take the torture question -

The Bush administration said 'No! Americans don't do that!' and that Abu Grahib was an anomaly perpetrated by a few bad apples. The bottom feeders of the whole fiasco go to jail and everyone moves on.

Then we hear that the Bush & Co did indeed use torture. They replied - 'no we didn't....we used enhanced interrogation which is as near to torture as you can get without actually being really real torture.'

As time goes on we find little snippets here & there that 'enhanced interrogation' really was just good old fashion torture and that it's institutional & widespread. (Of course, the more brazen Conservatives were disatisfied with ET and honestly wanted outright medieval techiques employed because those 'evil Mooslims(tm) deserved it'...)

Obama comes along and says 'No! Americans don't do that!' The critics on the left are saying that 'Bush started this and you've failed to stop it after saying you would' while the critics on the right are saying 'You're soft on terror and you'll make us all unsafe again after we fixed everything!'.

If Obama is anti torture and causes it's practise to cease - the right will make the case that he's at very least naive and worse, an active collaborator with Islamists depending on their level of wingnuttery.

If Obama says he's against torture but fails to stop it - then he's a fucking hypocrite. But if torture continues under his administration, then he's only doing what the Conservatives wanted in the first place. But then, how can they say 'Dems are weak on national security' when all they've done so far is leave the former governments policies in place?

The logic behind all of this is torture in itself.

As a side point, I think most Conservatives who boast proudly that they are not 'politically correct' should be poked in the eye with a sharpened stick for they are the same assholes who coined 'enhanced interrogation' , 'friendly fire' and 'collateral damage' as euphemisms for 'torture', 'fuck ups with firearms' and 'oops - who left that village there?'

If you're going to be against 'PC' it you can't then re-tool it to find quaint alternative expressions for brutality & stupidity.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

As long as I don't look at the TV, he doesn't have to decide.

[Mangrove]

As long as I don't look at the TV, he doesn't have to decide.

[LMNO]

Depends upon the superposition of the State.

As long as I don't look at the TV, he doesn't have to decide.

The Burns and Gracie of the Discordian set, ladies and gents! 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Depends upon the superposition of the State.

As long as I don't look at the TV, he doesn't have to decide.

The Burns and Gracie of the Discordian set, ladies and gents! 

Naw, they made jokes.  I just tell the truth.  Don't blame me if you laugh until your guts bleed.

[The Wizard]

Obama's position probably won't matter that much, at least with the torture thing. If he proves to be against it, then the American Inquisition will just hide themselves better. If he's for it, then they'll give themselves a pretty letterhead and badges. Either way, folks get tortured.

The only thing that makes sense to me anymore with politics, is to laugh my ass off and wait for the bombs to drop.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Obama's position probably won't matter that much, at least with the torture thing. If he proves to be against it, then the American Inquisition will just hide themselves better. If he's for it, then they'll give themselves a pretty letterhead and badges. Either way, folks get tortured.

The only thing that makes sense to me anymore with politics, is to laugh my ass off and wait for the bombs to drop.

I'm okay with a mushroom cloud if the monkeys go with me.

[The Wizard]

Fair enough. The bastards will probably find a way to survive, anyway. Like fucking cockroaches...

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Fair enough. The bastards will probably find a way to survive, anyway. Like fucking cockroaches...

FACT:  Humans fuck faster than you can shoot them.  This has been proven so many times that it's axiomatic.  The only way to get them is to blow the whole place up at once.

[The Wizard]

Blow the whole fucking planet up? Could work...whatever it takes I guess.