How come...

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This is possibly a powerful weapon, could be used to the good to be sure..
But what if,
andi'mjustsayingwhatifhere,
this was worked into schleping prepper gardening kits?

Nice little safety box tighter than a Scandinavian seed vault?
Fertiliser pack 'sustainer' kits sold separately and a serious bulk discount?
70 year "stay sealed pledge"*

* Obnoxiously fine print about pledge being of no legal value

That's already being done. Thing is, a garden kit is of no use; if you don't already have a garden planted, you'll starve to death before harvest time anyway.

[Doktor Howl]

Unless you develop a taste for slower neighbors.

In any case, this is what a real survivalist looks like:



Odds are about 99.9% that you won't survive a year past a major collapse.

So you survive by making sure society doesn't collapse.  You don't do that by playing dress up with an assault rifle you most likely couldn't actually afford.  No, you do it by staying ahead of the curve.  Which means science and organization, no matter how much that chaps someone's "rugged individualist" ass.

You notice that the same freaks running around with high-priced toys are ALSO the freaks whining about taxes, etc?  They think a post-collapse world means not paying the bills.  They're right.  Bleached bones don't care about credit scores.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Unless you develop a taste for slower neighbors.

In any case, this is what a real survivalist looks like:



Odds are about 99.9% that you won't survive a year past a major collapse.

So you survive by making sure society doesn't collapse.  You don't do that by playing dress up with an assault rifle you most likely couldn't actually afford.  No, you do it by staying ahead of the curve.  Which means science and organization, no matter how much that chaps someone's "rugged individualist" ass.

You notice that the same freaks running around with high-priced toys are ALSO the freaks whining about taxes, etc?  They think a post-collapse world means not paying the bills.  They're right.  Bleached bones don't care about credit scores.

True, alla that.

Part of what science is all about is trying to figure out how we can survive -and the more of us as far from the edge as possible, the better- period. Especially right now, when the danger that is looming is a lot scarier and more terminal than Ebola or any other headline nonsense.

We're kind of at a critical point, here. And it's not that we haven't been, before, it's that we steamrollered right past previous critical points and now we might just be at (or past) the critical point of no return.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It is definitely not a situation that guns can help with though.

[Cain]

Walking Dead jackoff fantasies roont, ITT.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Walking Dead jackoff fantasies roont, ITT.

[Ben Shapiro]

I love how people assume all scientists/engineers are just going to die off. Like if technicians won't teach basic maintenance to the community so the work load doesn't fall on them. Also in that scenario I will be poisoning the food of those fuck heads who were looking forward to this post mad max shit. Also I would be as vigilante as possible since those poor hopeless romantics tend to get what they want from women and children.

[The Wizard Joseph]

Fine... no trying to sell cheap G.E.C.K. knockoffs.

Howl's right I think. The only real chance at survival is no to allow collapse.

For some several reasons I think Wisconsin will endure well. I may post a thread to go in detail but my most basic point is abundant, easily accessible fresh water. Both for drinking and survival sciencing it's fundamental and we have lots. No water generally = no crops.

I love how people assume all scientists/engineers are just going to die off. Like if technicians won't teach basic maintenance to the community so the work load doesn't fall on them. Also in that scenario I will be poisoning the food of those fuck heads who were looking forward to this post mad max shit. Also I would be as vigilante as possible since those poor hopeless romantics tend to get what they want from women and children.

Me too. And would actively recruit other post apocalyptic paladins to the cause. If goodness must be enforced so be it.

[Cain]

To be honest, the whole "post-apocalyptic" thing is pretty much a libertarian masturbatory fantasy anyway.  Government completely collapses tomorrow, a fresh slate upon which the new order can be built.  An interim where men are men, women are women and we all live in bunkers with our automatic weaponry, relying on our wits, selfishness and huge gold reserves to survive.

Because that's totally likely to happen.  It's not like governments around the world have continuity plans which stretch right down to the individual town level, and that should something happen to cause central government to lose control, that local government, law enforcement, local military deployments and similar will step into the breach.  And those plans are pretty damn detailed, and have quite extensive chains of command.

[Doktor Howl]

To be honest, the whole "post-apocalyptic" thing is pretty much a libertarian masturbatory fantasy anyway.

Yep.  That ^^  And This VV

Government completely collapses tomorrow, a fresh slate upon which the new order can be built.  An interim where men are men, women are women and we all live in bunkers with our automatic weaponry, relying on our wits, selfishness and huge gold reserves to survive.

Because that's totally likely to happen.  It's not like governments around the world have continuity plans which stretch right down to the individual town level, and that should something happen to cause central government to lose control, that local government, law enforcement, local military deployments and similar will step into the breach.  And those plans are pretty damn detailed, and have quite extensive chains of command.

[President Television]

To be honest, the whole "post-apocalyptic" thing is pretty much a libertarian masturbatory fantasy anyway.  Government completely collapses tomorrow, a fresh slate upon which the new order can be built.  An interim where men are men, women are women and we all live in bunkers with our automatic weaponry, relying on our wits, selfishness and huge gold reserves to survive.

Because that's totally likely to happen.  It's not like governments around the world have continuity plans which stretch right down to the individual town level, and that should something happen to cause central government to lose control, that local government, law enforcement, local military deployments and similar will step into the breach.  And those plans are pretty damn detailed, and have quite extensive chains of command.

Eh, I could see the whole post-apocalyptic scenario happening in a very localized sense. I mean, small towns fall apart all the time even with a functioning federal infrastructure, for simple economic reasons. And then you have places like Detroit and Camden, New Jersey. But yeah, even then guns and bunkers would be incredibly unhelpful, and any inhabitants would likely die off at an alarming rate. About the closest I think we could get to the libertarian fantasy is a quasi-feudal state ruled by warlords and fundamentalists in the vein of Somalia. And unless they're willing to go out, organize(not likely) and raid farmers for their crops, these gun fetishists are ending up at the bottom of the shitheap. That's not even getting into the practical issue of whether there'd be enough unprotected farmland to survive on with banditry for a year, or how long it'd take law enforcement and military to start cleaning them up with overwhelming superiority in firepower, discipline, morale, numbers, and supplies.

[LMNO]

Please post this on FB so I can share the fuck out of it.

Unless you develop a taste for slower neighbors.

In any case, this is what a real survivalist looks like:



Odds are about 99.9% that you won't survive a year past a major collapse.

So you survive by making sure society doesn't collapse.  You don't do that by playing dress up with an assault rifle you most likely couldn't actually afford.  No, you do it by staying ahead of the curve.  Which means science and organization, no matter how much that chaps someone's "rugged individualist" ass.

You notice that the same freaks running around with high-priced toys are ALSO the freaks whining about taxes, etc?  They think a post-collapse world means not paying the bills.  They're right.  Bleached bones don't care about credit scores.

[Reginald Ret]

Fine... no trying to sell cheap G.E.C.K. knockoffs.

Why not? There is money to be made!
You can market to the Fallout fanboys and to the survivalists and to the gardeners!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Please post this on FB so I can share the fuck out of it.

Seconded.

Unless you develop a taste for slower neighbors.

In any case, this is what a real survivalist looks like:



Odds are about 99.9% that you won't survive a year past a major collapse.

So you survive by making sure society doesn't collapse.  You don't do that by playing dress up with an assault rifle you most likely couldn't actually afford.  No, you do it by staying ahead of the curve.  Which means science and organization, no matter how much that chaps someone's "rugged individualist" ass.

You notice that the same freaks running around with high-priced toys are ALSO the freaks whining about taxes, etc?  They think a post-collapse world means not paying the bills.  They're right.  Bleached bones don't care about credit scores.

[Cain]

To be honest, the whole "post-apocalyptic" thing is pretty much a libertarian masturbatory fantasy anyway.  Government completely collapses tomorrow, a fresh slate upon which the new order can be built.  An interim where men are men, women are women and we all live in bunkers with our automatic weaponry, relying on our wits, selfishness and huge gold reserves to survive.

Because that's totally likely to happen.  It's not like governments around the world have continuity plans which stretch right down to the individual town level, and that should something happen to cause central government to lose control, that local government, law enforcement, local military deployments and similar will step into the breach.  And those plans are pretty damn detailed, and have quite extensive chains of command.

Eh, I could see the whole post-apocalyptic scenario happening in a very localized sense. I mean, small towns fall apart all the time even with a functioning federal infrastructure, for simple economic reasons. And then you have places like Detroit and Camden, New Jersey. But yeah, even then guns and bunkers would be incredibly unhelpful, and any inhabitants would likely die off at an alarming rate. About the closest I think we could get to the libertarian fantasy is a quasi-feudal state ruled by warlords and fundamentalists in the vein of Somalia. And unless they're willing to go out, organize(not likely) and raid farmers for their crops, these gun fetishists are ending up at the bottom of the shitheap. That's not even getting into the practical issue of whether there'd be enough unprotected farmland to survive on with banditry for a year, or how long it'd take law enforcement and military to start cleaning them up with overwhelming superiority in firepower, discipline, morale, numbers, and supplies.

All good points.

However, I hasten to point out, most survivalist types live in advanced western nations.  In fact, they are almost exclusively American, Canadian or British.

And Somalia actually reinforces my point.  Somalia was not a powerful, rich or especially well developed state.  Siad Barre ran the place pretty badly, and in the aftermath of the civil war, what happened was power devolved to the clans and to customary religious institutions.  Some parts of the country, like Somaliland, emerged as almost fully functional states in the aftermath, and most of the actual zones of lawlessness and violence were the disputed lines of control between the various civil war factions - they were,in fact, warzones, and not the typical way of life for Somalis outside of those areas.  The civil war was the major cause of both the conflict and the collapse of the state.

If a state like Somalia can manage a collapse in such a fashion, governments with the resources and sophistication of the UK and USA are not likely to devolve into libertarian feudalism any time soon, even while weathering a major crisis.