QuoteIris Scanners Create the Most Secure City in the World. Welcome, Big Brother
BY Austin Carr Today
We've all seen and obsessively referenced Minority Report, Steven Spielberg's adaptation of Philip K. Dick's dystopian future, where the public is tracked everywhere they go, from shopping malls to work to mass transit to the privacy of their own homes. The technology is here. I've seen it myself. It's seen me, too, and scanned my irises.
Biometrics R&D firm Global Rainmakers Inc. (GRI) announced today that it is rolling out its iris scanning technology to create what it calls "the most secure city in the world." In a partnership with Leon -- one of the largest cities in Mexico, with a population of more than a million -- GRI will fill the city with eye-scanners. That will help law enforcement revolutionize the way we live -- not to mention marketers.
"In the future, whether it's entering your home, opening your car, entering your workspace, getting a pharmacy prescription refilled, or having your medical records pulled up, everything will come off that unique key that is your iris," says Jeff Carter, CDO of Global Rainmakers. Before coming to GRI, Carter headed a think tank partnership between Bank of America, Harvard, and MIT. "Every person, place, and thing on this planet will be connected [to the iris system] within the next 10 years," he says.
Leon is the first step. To implement the system, the city is creating a database of irises. Criminals will automatically be enrolled, their irises scanned once convicted. Law-abiding citizens will have the option to opt-in.
When these residents catch a train or bus, or take out money from an ATM, they will scan their irises, rather than swiping a metro or bank card. Police officers will monitor these scans and track the movements of watch-listed individuals. "Fraud, which is a $50 billion problem, will be completely eradicated," says Carter. Not even the "dead eyeballs" seen in Minority Report could trick the system, he says. "If you've been convicted of a crime, in essence, this will act as a digital scarlet letter. If you're a known shoplifter, for example, you won't be able to go into a store without being flagged. For others, boarding a plane will be impossible."
http://www.fastcompany.com/1683302/iris-scanners-create-the-most-secure-city-in-the-world-welcomes-big-brother?partner=homepage_newsletter
More fun at link.
The first person who posts "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about," wins an interbutt.
Son of a Bitch.
Almost time to move to the desert.
And he has a warning for those thinking of opting out: "When you get masses of people opting-in, opting out does not help. Opting out actually puts more of a flag on you than just being part of the system. We believe everyone will opt-in."
:x
HEY DOK I'LL RIP OUT YOUR EYEBALLS IF YOU RIP OUT MINE.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on August 22, 2010, 07:49:22 PM
HEY DOK I'LL RIP OUT YOUR EYEBALLS IF YOU RIP OUT MINE.
Fuck that. I want to see the ending.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 22, 2010, 07:50:48 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on August 22, 2010, 07:49:22 PM
HEY DOK I'LL RIP OUT YOUR EYEBALLS IF YOU RIP OUT MINE.
Fuck that. I want to see the ending.
Sorry, Dok, the ending is outside your designated iris roaming zone. You aren't authorized.
...how does this work for people with corneal transplants? Or does that part of the anatomy not affect the iris scan?
This shit will be easy to implement
QuoteI don't know how to make this any more clear; My security is infinitely more important than anyone's privacy, even yours!
Ken
QuoteI don't really understand all this fear-mongering, you guys need to chill out and remember that Minority Report was just a movie and not a foretelling. The government and banks know more about you than you do, and are probably better at keeping it a secret than you are. You carry an ID along with all of your credit cards and some money everyday, essentially anything and everything someone could use to steal your identity. You carry a passport when you travel, no one seems to mind that, yet it contains quite a bit of information about you. As far as advertisements go, we have already shown that we can limit what can be shown to us (ie subliminal advertisements) and if things get too invasive they can be trimmed back. In addition, people always act like the government is going to invade their privacy but frankly, they don't give two sh**s. Unless you are really doing something bad, you're not raising any eyebrows.
In an age where identity theft is an everyday occurrence, I would love a more secure method of proving that I am myself.
Ryan Lober
QuoteThis most definately sound like the mark of the beast. People wake up!
Jazzylady
QuoteI think the benefits of something like this far outweigh the downsides, particularly in the areas of home and workplace security where we want to feel safe, but not at the expense of feeling barred in.
Laurie Aznavoorian
QuoteYippee! I'm all for it. Stop the hoaxers, scammers & impostors in their tracks -- not to mention terrorists. Anything would be an improvement on the current situation. Sorry, we have brought this on ourselves: who is still teaching their kids anything about honesty, morality, decency?
...well, yes and no. I tend to think the folks who react favorably to this stuff are a certain subset of rightwingnuts who blather on and on about big government till it comes to 1) so-called security and defense and 2) rights to lurv Jebus (prayer in schools, etc.). Just like there's a subset of emokids, a subset of leftwingnuts, etc.
The final sentence in the article is Goodbye 2010, hello 1984. This shit makes my blood run cold.
Quote from: Jenne on August 22, 2010, 07:57:37 PM
...well, yes and no. I tend to think the folks who react favorably to this stuff are a certain subset of rightwingnuts who blather on and on about big government till it comes to 1) so-called security and defense and 2) rights to lurv Jebus (prayer in schools, etc.). Just like there's a subset of emokids, a subset of leftwingnuts, etc.
People will line up for miles to "opt-in".
I love this shit.
On a lighter note: http://rightnetwork.com/
Kelsey Grammar has apparently decided to ruin his career, ala John Lovitz.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 22, 2010, 08:02:35 PM
I love this shit.
On a lighter note: http://rightnetwork.com/
Kelsey Grammar has apparently decided to ruin his career, ala John Lovitz.
Good gods, you really are full of Horror™ today, aren't you?
I completely and utterly fail to understand the obsession with biometrics. It is easier to fake a fingerprint than a key, and I can't imagine eyes will be much better. Doubly so since retinal patterns change with age, so these things will need a *very* large margin of error.
But at least eyes will be harder to steal than fingers, right?
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 22, 2010, 08:09:07 PM
I completely and utterly fail to understand the obsession with biometrics. It is easier to fake a fingerprint than a key, and I can't imagine eyes will be much better. Doubly so since retinal patterns change with age, so these things will need a *very* large margin of error.
But at least eyes will be harder to steal than fingers, right?
It's crap anyway. Everyone knows the future is in RFID tags.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 22, 2010, 08:02:35 PM
I love this shit.
On a lighter note: http://rightnetwork.com/
Kelsey Grammar has apparently decided to ruin his career, ala John Lovitz.
If Fox news is fair and balanced, what the hell are they going to come out with that's openly biased to the right?
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 22, 2010, 08:04:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 22, 2010, 08:02:35 PM
I love this shit.
On a lighter note: http://rightnetwork.com/
Kelsey Grammar has apparently decided to ruin his career, ala John Lovitz.
Good gods, you really are full of Horror™ today, aren't you?
I'm packing a little extra venom.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 22, 2010, 08:09:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 22, 2010, 08:02:35 PM
I love this shit.
On a lighter note: http://rightnetwork.com/
Kelsey Grammar has apparently decided to ruin his career, ala John Lovitz.
If Fox news is fair and balanced, what the hell are they going to come out with that's openly biased to the right?
Watch the video at the link.
Go ahead.
O my. Well, they can't all be liberal Demos, I guess...
Quote from: Jenne on August 22, 2010, 08:10:48 PM
O my. Well, they can't all be liberal Demos, I guess...
John Lovitz is now a teabagger. He's also stopped being funny. Just like Dennis Miller.
Not a coincidence.
I can't wait to link this to my facebook account!
Welcome, EoC, did you know Jenne is nearby in aisle 3? Also, you should say hello to Eric by the deli; you're both friends with Sam and Chuck.
HAHAHAHAHA
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on August 22, 2010, 08:12:45 PM
I can't wait to link this to my facebook account!
Welcome, EoC, did you know Jenne is nearby in aisle 3? Also, you should say hello to Eric by the deli; you're both friends with Sam and Chuck.
HAHAHAHAHA
I think I warned you guys about this shit.
Oh, yeah.
Oh I did, I just don't trust ads, and all it really tells me is that it'll have people promoting right wing politics and really bad stand up comedy.
I want to know what nutjob they found that can compete with glenn beck.
All I want is to be left alone.
But I guess that won't happen in this wondrous future of ours.
Welcome to the brave new world, where you can everything, except privacy and justice.
I fully intend to "opt-out" (disappear).
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 22, 2010, 08:18:53 PM
Welcome to the brave new world, where you can everything, except privacy and justice.
Somehow I prefer the grimy old world, where you at least had some room to breathe.
Nowadays you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a product placement or newsletter. I can't imagine what it would be like having your every eyeball movement tracked by marketing companies.
Quote from: Nast on August 22, 2010, 08:27:11 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 22, 2010, 08:18:53 PM
Welcome to the brave new world, where you can everything, except privacy and justice.
Somehow I prefer the grimy old world, where you at least had some room to breathe.
Nowadays you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a product placement or newsletter. I can't imagine what it would be like having your every eyeball movement tracked by marketing companies.
Many will find it comforting. A few will see it for what it is.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 22, 2010, 08:12:33 PM
Quote from: Jenne on August 22, 2010, 08:10:48 PM
O my. Well, they can't all be liberal Demos, I guess...
John Lovitz is now a teabagger. He's also stopped being funny. Just like Dennis Miller.
Not a coincidence.
Agreed, on all accounts. Ugh. *spits* I really dislike DM now.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 22, 2010, 08:14:49 PM
Oh I did, I just don't trust ads, and all it really tells me is that it'll have people promoting right wing politics and really bad stand up comedy.
I want to know what nutjob they found that can compete with glenn beck.
They do have Glenn Beck. Playing poker.
EDIT: And you just know there's going to be a left-wing equivalent after this. And it might take a few decades, but I'm willing to bet that eventually all media will be subsidized into the Left network and the Right network. It's not far from that as it is. Just one more step towards turning politics into a rigid black-and-white dichotomy. Step out of line, and you'll have both sides breathing down your neck.
Makes it all the more horrormirthy that Kelsey explicitly mentioned partisan politics as not being "right". That network is a pure manifestation of partisan politics.
On their about page:
QuoteOur mission is clear: to entertain, engage, and enlighten Americans who are looking for content that reflects and reinforces their perspective and worldview.
Har!
Quote from: Nast on August 22, 2010, 08:45:06 PM
On their about page:
QuoteOur mission is clear: to entertain, engage, and enlighten Americans who are looking for content that reflects and reinforces their perspective and worldview.
Har!
:horrormirth: They actually come right out and say it. :horrormirth:
Amazing. The OP is incredibly terrifying to anyone who loves liberty and this thread is now about teevee.
Quote from: Nast on August 22, 2010, 08:27:11 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 22, 2010, 08:18:53 PM
Welcome to the brave new world, where you can everything, except privacy and justice.
Somehow I prefer the grimy old world, where you at least had some room to breathe.
Nowadays you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a product placement or newsletter. I can't imagine what it would be like having your every eyeball movement tracked by marketing companies.
I'm pretty sure marketers watch very carefully what people look at while you're on their private property, shopping.
Now they'll just have tons more information to connect with these observations. (http://www.instoremarketer.org/?q=node/5779)
You know, to make their stores more "relevant" and "satisfying."
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 22, 2010, 09:10:56 PM
Amazing. The OP is incredibly terrifying to anyone who loves liberty and this thread is now about teevee.
Shit, you're right. It's horrifying. Horrifying and predictable.
I wonder about the rights of the blind in a society using this iris scanner system. Everyone else would be oppressed, sure, but how well would someone with cataracts fare? Or someone missing their eyes? As horrible as a heavily security-focused society is, it's even worse if you require the possession of a body part just to enter or leave your own house. This stinks of Darwinism.
EDIT: I suppose the eyeless would simply have to opt out by default. And become second-class citizens. Everything about this is wrong. There's absolutely no justification.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 22, 2010, 08:12:33 PM
Quote from: Jenne on August 22, 2010, 08:10:48 PM
O my. Well, they can't all be liberal Demos, I guess...
John Lovitz is now a teabagger. He's also stopped being funny. Just like Dennis Miller.
Not a coincidence.
that is factually incorrect.
He was never funny to begin with.
Well, shit. Wonder how long until they ship this tech up to the states.
Little by little, the world becomes a William Gibson novel. Welcome to dystopia.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on August 23, 2010, 12:52:58 AM
Well, shit. Wonder how long until they ship this tech up to the states.
Little by little, the world becomes a William Gibson novel. Welcome to dystopia.
It's gonna be RFID chips. Mark my words. They're far more versatile.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 23, 2010, 12:53:50 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on August 23, 2010, 12:52:58 AM
Well, shit. Wonder how long until they ship this tech up to the states.
Little by little, the world becomes a William Gibson novel. Welcome to dystopia.
It's gonna be RFID chips. Mark my words. They're far more versatile.
They also cant be bypassed by a pair of sunglasses.
Quote from: Kingderp on August 23, 2010, 01:03:58 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 23, 2010, 12:53:50 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on August 23, 2010, 12:52:58 AM
Well, shit. Wonder how long until they ship this tech up to the states.
Little by little, the world becomes a William Gibson novel. Welcome to dystopia.
It's gonna be RFID chips. Mark my words. They're far more versatile.
They also cant be bypassed by a pair of sunglasses.
True, but sunglasses can be clubbed off your face, so that's not really a deciding issue.
QuoteIt's gonna be RFID chips. Mark my words. They're far more versatile.
Agreed, but this shit'll do fine in the interim. I just wish they'd go ahead and start doing the cybernetic implants. I want my cyber arms.
One day we will all be infected injected with a chip at birth.
Assuming they come up with something along these lines, were are convicted shoplifters supposed to shop? Currently they only get banned from the stores they shoplifted from. Default removal of right to engage in commerce seems awfully stiff punishment for a misdemeanor.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 23, 2010, 12:53:50 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on August 23, 2010, 12:52:58 AM
Well, shit. Wonder how long until they ship this tech up to the states.
Little by little, the world becomes a William Gibson novel. Welcome to dystopia.
It's gonna be RFID chips. Mark my words. They're far more versatile.
I think you're right, but not because of the versatility, but because we are apparently hellbent on having the worst security possible.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 23, 2010, 01:15:08 AM
Assuming they come up with something along these lines, were are convicted shoplifters supposed to shop? Currently they only get banned from the stores they shoplifted from. Default removal of right to engage in commerce seems awfully stiff punishment for a misdemeanor.
as I read it, they aren't bared from entering a store because of a shoplifting conviction at another store, just flagged for intense scrutiny.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 23, 2010, 01:22:44 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 23, 2010, 01:15:08 AM
Assuming they come up with something along these lines, were are convicted shoplifters supposed to shop? Currently they only get banned from the stores they shoplifted from. Default removal of right to engage in commerce seems awfully stiff punishment for a misdemeanor.
as I read it, they aren't bared from entering a store because of a shoplifting conviction at another store, just flagged for intense scrutiny.
It makes me wonder who else will be "flagged". Perhaps those with history of mental illness. Also, just how far does the information that stores get extend? Just to shoplifters? Could the guy behind the counter see my entire criminal history? Its one thing when the goverment is doing it(still wrong though) but another when some pizza faced worker drone behind the register knows I assaulted someone.
Iris scanners in MY mexicos?
I dont see how i missed this. :eek:
If the model is successful, expect to see it coming to a town near you! Soon!
I expect Arizona would have also volunteered to be a model, but likely a lot less red tape in Mexico.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on August 23, 2010, 01:08:40 AM
QuoteIt's gonna be RFID chips. Mark my words. They're far more versatile.
Agreed, but this shit'll do fine in the interim. I just wish they'd go ahead and start doing the cybernetic implants. I want my cyber arms.
Sure. Just sign these easy credit papers, and we'll fix you right up.
Of course, if you can't make the payments, standard repossession terms apply.
Human society gets a little more fucked up every day.
so now I'm assuming that employers will gain remote-viewing-technologies to see what your doing through your own eyes
"Yeah I'm sick"
"Not sick enough apparently, by the way your fired."
... imagine all the remote viewing sex!!!
Nah, the first big thing in cybernetics will be something to make us not need to sleep. So that we can work 16 or 20 hour days. (all without overtime pay of course, Rand bless that salary loophole).
QuoteNah, the first big thing in cybernetics will be something to make us not need to sleep. So that we can work 16 or 20 hour days. (all unpaid of course, bless that salary loophole).
Hmm. Wouldn't mind exploiting that. Will never let myself become a wage slave though. Leave that for the monkeys.
Actually this is *better* for the wage slaves, if you get payed hourly being able to work 16 hours a day means you get more money than if you work 8, if you have a salaried job it will be *required*, for no extra pay, they can afford to let you go if you don't want to, after all they'll be reducing staff thanks to the extra productivity.
Actually, scratch that, there won't be enough wage slave jobs to go around, and the surplus labor will put unemployment even higher above the roof than it already is.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 22, 2010, 08:09:50 PMIt's crap anyway. Everyone knows the future is in RFID tags.
RFID chips in action! http://gizmodo.com/5619013/cleveland-smart-bins-will-fine-non+recyclers-100 (http://gizmodo.com/5619013/cleveland-smart-bins-will-fine-non+recyclers-100)
This'll learn them bastardly non-recyclers.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 22, 2010, 08:09:07 PM
Doubly so since retinal patterns change with age, so these things will need a *very* large margin of error.
This scans irises though, not retinas.
From Wikipedia:
QuoteWhile there are some medical and surgical procedures that can affect the colour and overall shape of the iris, the fine texture remains remarkably stable over many decades. Some iris identifications have succeeded over a period of about 30 years.
Though, at the moment iris scans can be faked by showing a high quality image of a person.
There have been some serious problems with in eye recordings already actually. A man put one in his head and is now not allowed to go to the movies or watch football. It violates some wiretapping laws too.
As far as the work side of it Requia, Salary is (legally) assumed to cover 40 hours a week, some require overtime, that has to be factored into the salary so that it comes out over min wage + overtime, requiring anyone, hourly or salary to work more than 80 hours a week is illegal. The problem is that Salaried employees don't know their rights and so they don't call their employers on it when they violate them. (there's some provisions in there for Comp time or paid time off, as well)
Minimum wage is shit pay even at overtime. It's what you expect to make at McDonald's, not as a highly skilled professional that works 70 hours a week.
How much would a highly skilled salaried employee expect to make?
More than I did at a call center.
They frequently do not of course.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 23, 2010, 04:23:48 AM
Minimum wage is shit pay even at overtime. It's what you expect to make at McDonald's, not as a highly skilled professional that works 70 hours a week.
Well sure, but you can't go making laws that say someone with so many years schooling is required to be paid a certain amount. Salaried employees need to start some guilds.
(Note, I do not mean Guild as in a group in an MMPOG, I mean Guild as in Writer's Guild, like a Union, but for skilled labor)
What I'm referring too is more a matter of not increasing a person's expected hours without increasing wages. If you know going in that you'll only make 35k a year at 60 hours a week that's a different story, most people I know who work excessive hour were told it would be 40 hours a week.
Of course, that would require that employers actually be required to follow the clauses in contracts, verbal or written, which will never happen around here.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 23, 2010, 04:33:14 AM
What I'm referring too is more a matter of not increasing a person's expected hours without increasing wages. If you know going in that you'll only make 35k a year at 60 hours a week that's a different story, most people I know who work excessive hour were told it would be 40 hours a week.
Of course, that would require that employers actually be required to follow the clauses in contracts, verbal or written, which will never happen around here.
That's what I am saying about employees not knowing their rights. If employers don't follow the contract (and you had definitely better get it in writing) you can file suit. If you are making 35k a year you should be able to afford that.
Only if you can prove in court that you were not in fact told that you would be fired if you don't sign the new contract. (This happened to me, I checked and actually suing over it isn't feasible in my state).
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 23, 2010, 04:45:18 AM
Only if you can prove in court that you were not in fact told that you would be fired if you don't sign the new contract. (This happened to me, I checked and actually suing over it isn't feasible in my state).
Back to needing guilds then.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 23, 2010, 04:36:07 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on August 23, 2010, 04:33:14 AM
What I'm referring too is more a matter of not increasing a person's expected hours without increasing wages. If you know going in that you'll only make 35k a year at 60 hours a week that's a different story, most people I know who work excessive hour were told it would be 40 hours a week.
Of course, that would require that employers actually be required to follow the clauses in contracts, verbal or written, which will never happen around here.
That's what I am saying about employees not knowing their rights. If employers don't follow the contract (and you had definitely better get it in writing) you can file suit. If you are making 35k a year you should be able to afford that.
who the fuck that makes 35K a year can afford an attorney?
http://www.wickedlasers.com/ (http://www.wickedlasers.com/)
Yeah.
Commenting on the OP: Y'know, considering that I just watched a documentary on OPB where a mexican national was grabbed off the street and charged with murder, and even though everyone in the farmer's market he worked at told the documentary crew on camera that he was at the market at the time of the shooting, it still took him 4 years to fight his way up to an appeals court, and the only reason he was acquitted was he had a documentary camera crew following him around to film all of the "witnesses" who testified against him and had video proof to present to the appeals judge.....
Yeah.........
http://www.pbs.org/pov/presumedguilty/
Unless the Cartels are actually bankrolling this (even mob bosses need security, sometimes), they're not going to take kindly to some security enclave being dropped in the middle of Mexico. Expect a Zeta with an RPG to visit the houses of anyone involved in this project, before it gets off the ground.
That does it. I'm buying a burqa.
One with a built-in Faraday cage to block out any scans. I'll call them Freedom Burqastm.
Tinfoil hats are so 20th Century.
I'm still kind of in denial about this. Cause we just had a couple of small privacy awareness victories over here (well a couple of months ago, even though the elections were a bunch of fail thanks to Wilders, the privacy awareness groups got quite a bit f media attention). For one of the least privacy-aware countries in Europe (can you believe NL has more phone taps than the US in absolute numbers ?? They even accidentally the entire lawyer-client confidentality), that's pretty good. Also Bits of Freedom (the Dutch EFF) is collection a "data leakage blackbook", with all the companies accidentally losing track of their privacy sensitive customer data, leaving USB sticks in taxis, getting their servers hacked etc, they're lobbying for forced disclosure of these kinds of things (that the company has to make it known they accidentally spilled their customers PI all over the Interwebz)
So, things were actually going well, on that account, for ONCE. So I'm just going to think "this is on the other side of the world and won't happen here" for a little while longer okay? I know it's not true and just a matter of time.
You should become familiar with RFID technology because you'll be hearing much more about it soon. Retailers adore the concept, and CNET News.com's own Alorie Gilbert wrote last week about how Wal-Mart and the U.K.-based grocery chain Tesco are starting to install "smart shelves" with networked RFID readers. In what will become the largest test of the technology, consumer goods giant Gillette recently said it would purchase 500 million RFID tags from Alien Technology of Morgan Hill, Calif.
http://news.cnet.com/2010-1069-980325.html
Buyer Beware.
t becomes unnervingly easy to imagine a scenario where everything you buy that's more expensive than a Snickers will sport RFID tags, which typically include a 64-bit unique identifier yielding about 18 thousand trillion possible values. KSW-Microtec, a German company, has invented washable RFID tags designed to be sewn into clothing. And according to EE Times, the European central bank is considering embedding RFID tags into banknotes by 2005.
It becomes unnervingly easy to imagine a scenario where everything you buy that's more expensive than a Snickers will sport RFID tags.
That raises the disquieting possibility of being tracked though our personal possessions. Imagine: The Gap links your sweater's RFID tag with the credit card you used to buy it and recognizes you by name when you return. Grocery stores flash ads on wall-sized screens based on your spending patterns, just like in "Minority Report." Police gain a trendy method of constant, cradle-to-grave surveillance.
You can imagine nightmare legal scenarios that don't involve the cops. Future divorce cases could involve one party seeking a subpoena for RFID logs--to prove that a spouse was in a certain location at a certain time. Future burglars could canvass alleys with RFID detectors, looking for RFID tags on discarded packaging that indicates expensive electronic gear is nearby. In all of these scenarios, the ability to remain anonymous is eroded.
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 23, 2010, 01:25:25 PM
You should become familiar with RFID technology because you'll be hearing much more about it soon.
You're talking to me? Of course I know about RFID. My biometrics are on my ID card in an RFID. It's mandatory to carry around. German hackers from the Chaos Computer Club conferences have demonstrated years ago you can read them out from a distance of 200 meters (1500ft, you need line of sight, afaik, but a high tower would work), already
years ago. It's old news. Good chance that expensive specialized gov equipment could even get a range of a few miles or so, if they put some money on the research to realize it. Tracking everybody. They don't do it yet though.
They're also used in our Public Transport account cards and in library books. I hate the Public Transport chipcard thing, even though it is (after a long time of childhood problems) very userfriendly, you just need to hold your pass near one of the scanning posts. But it totally sucks that it also means they now have a database that knows when and where exactly I took a train and where to.
Quotet becomes unnervingly easy to imagine a scenario where everything you buy that's more expensive than a Snickers will sport RFID tags, which typically include a 64-bit unique identifier yielding about 18 thousand trillion possible values.
:|
Noooo. Not 18 thousand trillion. That's .. oh. That's 64 bits. That's um, 8 bytes. EIGHTTEEN THOUSAND TRILLION sounds a lot more impressive though.
Sorry for the cynical response, but there's a lot of REAL things that are bad and scary about RFID, and the EIGHTTEEN THOUSAND TRILLION number of UNIQUE POSSIBLE VALUES really isn't one of them.
QuoteKSW-Microtec, a German company, has invented washable RFID tags designed to be sewn into clothing. And according to EE Times, the European central bank is considering embedding RFID tags into banknotes by 2005.
they will be in our banknotes by 2005? better get familiar with them soon, then. I'm not sure if they actually went through with that though. There is some metal strip in most Euro notes, you can tell if you microwave them, they burn out. But I don't think it's RFID.
QuoteIt becomes unnervingly easy to imagine a scenario where everything you buy that's more expensive than a Snickers will sport RFID tags.
That raises the disquieting possibility of being tracked though our personal possessions. Imagine: The Gap links your sweater's RFID tag with the credit card you used to buy it and recognizes you by name when you return. Grocery stores flash ads on wall-sized screens based on your spending patterns, just like in "Minority Report." Police gain a trendy method of constant, cradle-to-grave surveillance.
You can imagine nightmare legal scenarios that don't involve the cops. Future divorce cases could involve one party seeking a subpoena for RFID logs--to prove that a spouse was in a certain location at a certain time. Future burglars could canvass alleys with RFID detectors, looking for RFID tags on discarded packaging that indicates expensive electronic gear is nearby. In all of these scenarios, the ability to remain anonymous is eroded.
These scenarios are really really unlikely cause most RFID chips are passive ones, which means they get a short range and you can only pick them up from a longer range with very targeted scanners.
And Grocery stores won't flash ads on wall-sized screens, regardless of RFID. I saw the tech for that at a demo in Philips hi-tech in EIndhoven. It's WAY to expensive, the only markets that might even consider getting that stuff are the Italian fashion scene and perhaps Dubai. IOW, people with cash to throw at useless crap.
Neither can future burglars "canvas" alleys with RFID detectors, that is utter bull crap. The RFID chips themselves might be dirt cheap, but the scanners sure as fuck aren't. That's the
entire fucking point of the technology, the scanners are so expensive
because the chips are such simple devices. Whoever wrote that article is an idiot, there's no way that burglars are going to scan passers-by and somehow automatically look up the average expensiveness of stuff they are carrying with them. There's a lot easier methods of guessing whether someone is carrying around cash or not.
As I said, RFID chips are a problem, they have some very real privacy issues indeed. But these are not them. In fact it's hurting the cause of privacy, by coming up with all these movie plot scenarios, when our rights are being eroded in VERY REAL ways RIGHT NOW.
After your comment in the other thread I guess it's just time for me to stop posting. Thanks.
Uh, it's Peleus you should be pissed off at. 000 just noticed the pattern, is all -- and Trip didn't put any negative qualifiers on it, either.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 23, 2010, 01:22:44 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 23, 2010, 01:15:08 AM
Assuming they come up with something along these lines, were are convicted shoplifters supposed to shop? Currently they only get banned from the stores they shoplifted from. Default removal of right to engage in commerce seems awfully stiff punishment for a misdemeanor.
as I read it, they aren't bared from entering a store because of a shoplifting conviction at another store, just flagged for intense scrutiny.
In UK, when a shoplifter is banned from stores after being caught, it doesn't actually mean they are not allowed to enter the premises, or take the Company up on their offer to trade, because that would be an infringement of statutary rights. (In that a convicted shoplifter is still a member of the public, and as such, under contract law, invited to trade on shop premises)
What it does mean, is that the shoplifter enters the premises as a trespasser. They can still buy stuff, and their statutary rights are upheld, but if they are caught shoplifting again, it becomes Robbery, (as opposed to simple theft) because they entered the premises as a trespasser.
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 23, 2010, 02:37:10 PM
Uh, it's Peleus you should be pissed off at. 000 just noticed the pattern, is all -- and Trip didn't put any negative qualifiers on it, either.
I also took into consideration the way he jumped my ass, (or it felt that way) in his last post in this thread.
I need a break until my head is straight.
Couldn't RFID tags could be disabled using a simple burst of EM, or Microwaves, as soon as you get the product home? This would effectivey ensure the Technology is disabled for any nefarious Big Brother surviellence.
Exactly how simple is it to generate an EM or microwaves, especially while mobile?
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 23, 2010, 03:56:16 PM
Exactly how simple is it to generate an EM or microwaves, especially while mobile?
Not sure, but the Police were testing Com equipment that used pulsed microwaves a few years back on their walkie talkies.
edit: I think they dropped it, when Officers involved developed subdermal abscesses near their ears, but the tech certainly still exists.
Google seems to have quite a few topics on the subject, but all are blocked for me by websense.
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 23, 2010, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 23, 2010, 02:37:10 PM
Uh, it's Peleus you should be pissed off at. 000 just noticed the pattern, is all -- and Trip didn't put any negative qualifiers on it, either.
I also took into consideration the way he jumped my ass, (or it felt that way) in his last post in this thread.
I need a break until my head is straight.
Well I mostly jumped on the article for making up so called "movie plot threats", which, as I said, are not very good for improving the credibility of the actual threats. The writing out huge numbers in text and speaking "canvassing of alleys" with scanners is just sensation journalism.
I might have sounded a bit miffed because it was the third time already you mentioned ITT people should check out RFID, and a line, direct at me, as "You should become familiar with RFID technology because you'll be hearing much more about it soon" sounds pretty condescending when the technology has been in mainstream use since at least a decade and privacy watchdog organizations have been warning us about them since then. It's a bit like telling Cain he should check out CCTV cameras and linking to a 1995 FUD article about those.
I'm sorry, apparently you only just heard about RFID technology. It is also true that the technology on RFID keeps getting better and scarier every year, but that's not what the article you linked was talking about, because it dates from 2003. And really a lot of stuff happened in those 7 years on the field of RFID, and a lot of "predictions" the writer of that article makes just did not end up happening. On the other hand, a lot of stuff the author DID NOT predict, did end up happening, and that stuff is at least just as scary as the fantasy dystopian future stuff he made up in 2003.
So if anything, maybe
you should become familiar with current-day RFID technology ;-) If you'd like a pointer, start with the wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rfid) (which I also have been checking while writing this, to make sure I'm not talking shit), and then continue to the proceedings and talks on various CCC conferences in Germany. They have the scary shit on privacy. Not even just RFID btw. Let me see if I can get you an arrow (http://www.searchlores.org/synecdoc.htm) into that for you: http://www.google.com/search?q=rfid+site:ccc.de -- Most informative would probably be to check the videos and presentations, since the CCC is really into being open (source) and sharing (information), most of their videos are online for free, just click the "Video" tab in Google.
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 23, 2010, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 23, 2010, 02:37:10 PM
Uh, it's Peleus you should be pissed off at. 000 just noticed the pattern, is all -- and Trip didn't put any negative qualifiers on it, either.
I also took into consideration the way he jumped my ass, (or it felt that way) in his last post in this thread.
I need a break until my head is straight.
unless you authored the article that you quoted ITT, I think you're overreacting.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 23, 2010, 03:54:16 PM
Couldn't RFID tags could be disabled using a simple burst of EM, or Microwaves, as soon as you get the product home? This would effectivey ensure the Technology is disabled for any nefarious Big Brother surveillence.
Yeah if you pop em into the microwave for a while, they're broken. On the other hand, if you bought a piece of electronics, it's also broken.
Another good way is to block the signal by creating a sort of Faraday-cage. Really, it's hilarious how close this gets to wearing actual Tinfoil Hats :lulz:
Basically what you do is create a sort of bag, box, or wallet kind of thing as you'd DIY using ducttape. Except you work aluminium foil into the design. It works best if you make sure the aluminium is completely surrounding (by conduction) the box, especially if you have contacts for the lid. Like a real Faraday cage, that is. You can try it out by putting your mobile phone in it, and calling it. If it doesn't work, you have successfully shielded it off from most EM radiation.
For example, I still want to get myself one of those duct-tape wallets with aluminium foil worked into it, because that
would probably protect me from having my ID-card or Public Transport card remote scanned. For a quick fix, you could of course just wrap the cards into foil, but it's less snazzy ;-)
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 23, 2010, 04:11:18 PM
It's a bit like telling Cain he should check out CCTV cameras and linking to a 1995 FUD article about those.
Wait, they're now using CCTV to
spy on people? In
public? What the fuck?
:argh!:
Only on bad people. If you have a clean conscience, then you don't show up on camera.
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2010, 04:26:21 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 23, 2010, 04:11:18 PM
It's a bit like telling Cain he should check out CCTV cameras and linking to a 1995 FUD article about those.
Wait, they're now using CCTV to spy on people? In public? What the fuck?
:argh!:
:lulz:
:potd:
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2010, 04:26:21 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 23, 2010, 04:11:18 PM
It's a bit like telling Cain he should check out CCTV cameras and linking to a 1995 FUD article about those.
Wait, they're now using CCTV to spy on people? In public? What the fuck?
:argh!:
only you
Shops in UK are now using small adhesive strips, about an inch long, and a quarter inch wide, that are deactivated at the tills with a magnet. If they are not deactivated, an alarm sounds as you go out the door. Is this RFID?
I wondered about those, but no I don't think they are RFIDs. They've been there for a really really long time.
AFAIK those are based on some kind of coil. You can see it in certain types of them, they look like a sticker that's made of an 8-sided spiral of metal print, is a coil. Something something magnetic field something electric current something, and the alarm goes bleepy when you pass it. I'm not entirely sure how they disable those coils, though. Maybe they actually short them using a stronger magnetic field that burns part of the circuit.
Fun thing to try is, if you have a big loop of cable, say UTP network cable, and you roll it up in a coil, a fairly normal way of storing large ends of cable, it should trigger the alarm as well.
I've noticed those coils in modern Passports, and the inside pages of Library books. Both of which link up to central databases. Presumably they all have a identifier, like an individual barcode that activates / de-activates them. But I'll try that coil thing next time I'm going to the Library.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 23, 2010, 04:34:33 PM
Shops in UK are now using small adhesive strips, about an inch long, and a quarter inch wide, that are deactivated at the tills with a magnet. If they are not deactivated, an alarm sounds as you go out the door. Is this RFID?
Not RFID. RFIDs are distinguished from those magnetic tags in that RFIDs can store information.
/themoaryouknow
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 23, 2010, 05:33:43 PM
I wondered about those, but no I don't think they are RFIDs. They've been there for a really really long time.
AFAIK those are based on some kind of coil. You can see it in certain types of them, they look like a sticker that's made of an 8-sided spiral of metal print, is a coil. Something something magnetic field something electric current something, and the alarm goes bleepy when you pass it. I'm not entirely sure how they disable those coils, though. Maybe they actually short them using a stronger magnetic field that burns part of the circuit.
Fun thing to try is, if you have a big loop of cable, say UTP network cable, and you roll it up in a coil, a fairly normal way of storing large ends of cable, it should trigger the alarm as well.
If I'm thinking about the same thing you are, it might be a big, crude RFID tag.
More likely, I imagine, is that the sticker circuit is a resonant circuit. It would soak up oscillations near some set frequency -- which is why only the stickers set off the detector.
Of course, my memory of EM devices is fuzzy.
Okay, but any idea how the disabling of those things works?