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Uncanny valley turned up to eleven.

Started by Kai, February 12, 2012, 12:26:16 AM

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Kai

Seriously.

It may seem like videos of robots folding laundry, and an all terrain robot "mule", but the movements and the corrections the robots make, and how they were trained to do these things makes their movements almost biological. Especially when the robot mule stumbles. It just about freaked me out how much that looks like a cow stumbling and attempting to get up.

QuoteTechnology Review magazine says "Abbeel taught one robot how to fold laundry by giving it some general rules about how fabric behaves, and then showed it around 100 images of clothing so it could analyze how that particular clothing was likely to move as it was handled." No live human instruction. Just pictures.

In this towel-folding video, you can almost feel the robot studying the cloth, trying to figure out which two points are farthest apart and therefore the best places to grasp and fold. It's spooky.

Spooky is right. My whole response during the video was laughter and "Oh my god..."
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Triple Zero

Going to watch this later (must leave in 20 mins), sounds very interesting.

I suppose you've never seen the (rather old, early 90s i think) evolutionary simulations of block creatures being selected in their capability of moving about in 3D simulated physics environment? I'll look up some videos of those when I get back.

It's different of course, because it's all virtual, not actual robots. The point was, they encoded the shape (block sizes, what connects to what) and the way they moved (forces applied to the joints, but I'm not exactly sure), generated a buttload of random "creatures" and selected them for how far they moved, then applied mutation and maybe crossover and the whole genetic algorithm shebang.

The end result was pretty amazing. Depending on the type of physical environment you had them evolve in, they evolved several kinds of locomotion that were extremely like kinds you also find in real life animals in those environments. With normal gravity, friction and a floor beneath them, there were creatures that evolved crawling, caterpillar-like movement, snake-like movement and some sort of hopping movement I'm not really quite sure what that was. But if you'd turn up the viscosity of the "air" in this world, remove the floor, you'd get swimming creatures! They evolved fin-like peddles, the same snake now slithered through the water, a sort of swimming-arms motion I think I've seen in some water bugs, another was more like a tadpole and there was one which evolved something that really looked like a propellor (which you don't really see in nature, afaik, but apparently that's a mechanical limitation which was penalized properly in the simulation).

I saw this when I was very young and together with Thomas Ray's Tierra ALife simulation, it has probably been the two most influential things on the subject of Computational Science.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Kai

About the mechanical limitations of propellers and wheels:

Though there are some organisms that spin themselves through liquid, and some animals that roll up in an elipse or ball to wheel across the landscape, there are no organisms that posess a propeller or wheel. And the reasons for that are pretty clear. Both propellers and wheels require a part that can freely spin on an axel, that is completely decoupled from the main body. This may be possible in a colonial organism, where the parts are made up of individual organisms which are semi-independent, but it could not happen in a single organism. It would be like having a hand that was detached from and yet still controlled and fed by the body. Even if the mechanism that rotated the wheel was enclosed in a cellular structure, theres the matter of the seam and how it exposes parts to the environment. You would certainly not see this in a small terrestrial animal, because the water loss would be tremendous.

I mean, think of how we get rotating parts in machines. In an electric motor, it is almost always a coiling current around decoupled, freely moving magnets.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I've been geeking out on robots and ai lately... not the technical aspects, just looking at how advanced they've gotten in just the last couple of years, and suddenly seeing how all of these weird technologies that at first seemed inexplicable all come together in a fairly alarming way when you put them in a robot. When they start really combining these... ai, computer learning, mechanical speech, and agility... in one robot, it is going to be one scary-ass motherfucker.

Yesterday I was at my friend's house watching robot videos, and his five-year-old daughter SCREAMED and ran out of the room and hid in her bed crying and saying "I don't like robots!"

Kids, they know.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Triple Zero

Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on February 12, 2012, 01:35:40 PM
About the mechanical limitations of propellers and wheels:

Though there are some organisms that spin themselves through liquid, and some animals that roll up in an elipse or ball to wheel across the landscape, there are no organisms that posess a propeller or wheel. And the reasons for that are pretty clear. Both propellers and wheels require a part that can freely spin on an axel, that is completely decoupled from the main body. This may be possible in a colonial organism, where the parts are made up of individual organisms which are semi-independent, but it could not happen in a single organism. It would be like having a hand that was detached from and yet still controlled and fed by the body. Even if the mechanism that rotated the wheel was enclosed in a cellular structure, theres the matter of the seam and how it exposes parts to the environment. You would certainly not see this in a small terrestrial animal, because the water loss would be tremendous.

I mean, think of how we get rotating parts in machines. In an electric motor, it is almost always a coiling current around decoupled, freely moving magnets.

Yes. Sorry I wasn't clear, I wanted to write "a mechanical limitation which was penalized improperly in the simulation" :) Meaning that the simulation should have penalized joints that turn too far.

The only way a wheel or rotating part is beneficial is if you can keep it going, re-using the angular momentum.

For instance, I was just thinking that technically, a tadpole-like creature could rotate the last bit of its tail or something and it'd be kind of like a propeller. But then, if it can do that, it might as well move the whole tail in some slithering corkscrew like movement, because that's more efficient. And we do see the latter type of locomotion in worms and eel-like creatures.

The videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0OHycypSG8 (very bad sound quality, unfortunately)
hm I'm not sure if there's more of this particular experiment actually. I should *really* look up the paper that probably goes with it, though.

There's some more examples (of more recent simulations) in the related videos. "Evolved Virtual Creature" seems like a good search term for these.

There's also some software available, apparently: http://www.stellaralchemy.com/lee/virtual_creatures.php which I will check out later.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Cainad (dec.)

The first video of the robot flipping the sock totally looks like something from Wallace and Grommit.

Kai

Quote from: Triple Zero on February 12, 2012, 08:09:05 PM
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on February 12, 2012, 01:35:40 PM
About the mechanical limitations of propellers and wheels:

Though there are some organisms that spin themselves through liquid, and some animals that roll up in an elipse or ball to wheel across the landscape, there are no organisms that posess a propeller or wheel. And the reasons for that are pretty clear. Both propellers and wheels require a part that can freely spin on an axel, that is completely decoupled from the main body. This may be possible in a colonial organism, where the parts are made up of individual organisms which are semi-independent, but it could not happen in a single organism. It would be like having a hand that was detached from and yet still controlled and fed by the body. Even if the mechanism that rotated the wheel was enclosed in a cellular structure, theres the matter of the seam and how it exposes parts to the environment. You would certainly not see this in a small terrestrial animal, because the water loss would be tremendous.

I mean, think of how we get rotating parts in machines. In an electric motor, it is almost always a coiling current around decoupled, freely moving magnets.

Yes. Sorry I wasn't clear, I wanted to write "a mechanical limitation which was penalized improperly in the simulation" :) Meaning that the simulation should have penalized joints that turn too far.

The only way a wheel or rotating part is beneficial is if you can keep it going, re-using the angular momentum.

For instance, I was just thinking that technically, a tadpole-like creature could rotate the last bit of its tail or something and it'd be kind of like a propeller. But then, if it can do that, it might as well move the whole tail in some slithering corkscrew like movement, because that's more efficient. And we do see the latter type of locomotion in worms and eel-like creatures.

The videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0OHycypSG8 (very bad sound quality, unfortunately)
hm I'm not sure if there's more of this particular experiment actually. I should *really* look up the paper that probably goes with it, though.

There's some more examples (of more recent simulations) in the related videos. "Evolved Virtual Creature" seems like a good search term for these.

There's also some software available, apparently: http://www.stellaralchemy.com/lee/virtual_creatures.php which I will check out later.

And to add to your links. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQsx4xLqKM Wheeling tiger beetle larvae. I saw the author of this work give a talk on it about a year ago. Fascinating biomechanical stuff. Not only do they leap up and curl round to roll, but their hairy legs are used as sails to catch the wind on the beaches and continue rolling much further. Flat, unmarred beaches are absolutely essential for this species' habitat.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Elder Iptuous

Ahh, bigdog!  i've been enjoying the evolution of this robot since i saw it over a decade ago.
Boston Dynamics serves up some pretty hot snot!

Let's add the Boston Dynamics PETMan to the collection as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mclbVTIYG8E

don't recall whether this one was posted at some point here, but it's pretty impressive humanoid movement.
it is currently purposed as a test fixture for protective clothing to make sure it can withstand realistic rigors of human wear, but it's certainly a general advancement in humanoid robotics.


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Iptuous on February 12, 2012, 10:51:55 PM
Ahh, bigdog!  i've been enjoying the evolution of this robot since i saw it over a decade ago.
Boston Dynamics serves up some pretty hot snot!

Let's add the Boston Dynamics PETMan to the collection as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mclbVTIYG8E

don't recall whether this one was posted at some point here, but it's pretty impressive humanoid movement.
it is currently purposed as a test fixture for protective clothing to make sure it can withstand realistic rigors of human wear, but it's certainly a general advancement in humanoid robotics.

Yep, that was totally creepy as fuck.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Elder Iptuous

*schsk* As we begin our descent, if the passengers on the left side will look out their windows at the valley floor below, they will notice that their minds have just been rent by that which should not be. ..*schsk*

http://youtu.be/RbgzqFtcALA

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Iptuous on February 13, 2012, 03:56:24 PM
*schsk* As we begin our descent, if the passengers on the left side will look out their windows at the valley floor below, they will notice that their minds have just been rent by that which should not be. ..*schsk*

http://youtu.be/RbgzqFtcALA

Kinda like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_wF5SGFFMQ&feature=related

There's a toddler one that's really damn creepy, too.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Elder Iptuous

Not human mimicry, but uncanny valley territory none the less...
link

QuoteThis is RoboBonobo. It's a robotic ape. It's got a water cannon on it, and it'll eventually be able to chase you around under the direct control of real bonobos wielding wireless keyboards and iPads. In other words, no human is safe. Anywhere. Ever.

i don't believe the ape head on it is even animatronic, but it's still uncanny given the knowledge that it is an actual ape behind the wheel...

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

As hilariously creepy as that is, it's not uncanny valley stuff. More like MAD SCIENTIST stuff.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Elder Iptuous

yeah.  is true.  i wanted to show though, and...
the valley is reserved mostly for human mimicry, but ive seen examples of non human stuff as being in there.
this doesn't really fit the bill specifically, as there is simply a lifelike dummy ape head on a clearly machine box, but it seemed to me that, the knowledge that there really is and ape at the controls makes it seem a little creepy in an uncanny valley way somehow...
so i stuck it in here.
feel free to have split to a more applicable thread.

the realtime communication aspect is pretty slick though, as these bonobos know ~400 lexigrams, and a tablet app to communicate with people using them. (i'm guessing since they're bonobos, about 1/3 of them are variations on the concept of clitoris)
and then they spray you with the water cannon.