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the value of information

Started by LHX, January 09, 2006, 06:46:08 PM

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LMNO

So, theft has value...

I love sophistry.

Cain

There used to be a great sophist forum I went to before coming here.  It was slow at times, but very interesting.  I found the link to this place from a forum they linked to, oddly enough.  Shame it vanished without a trace one day.

LHX

Quote from: eroticSo, theft has value...

I love sophistry.

no

theft doesnt have value

theft obtains value

can a action have a value?



LHX - looking up sophistry
neat hell

LHX

Quote from: wikipediaThe derogatory modern usage of the word, suggesting an invalid argument composed of specious reasoning, is not necessarily representative of the beliefs of the original Sophists, except that they generally taught Rhetoric.

?

please

i thought we got past the 'morals' bullshit

theft directly from a person
or theft of the quality of life of future generations by 'earning' it

hell is hell

theft is earning

not preferred
but
it is earning
neat hell

LMNO

Come now, friend, are you still defining "value" as a thing rather than a concept?

And if value is a concept, why shouldn't an action have value?

LHX

Quote from: eroticCome now, friend, are you still defining "value" as a thing rather than a concept?

And if value is a concept, why shouldn't an action have value?

i would like to go on teh record as stating L-M-N-O asks the best questions


and also called me 'friend'


my answer - i guess a action could have a value
but
maybe in a different light than a 'thing' has a value

value seems to be an interesting concept
neat hell

hooplala

Quote from: LHXi would like to go on teh record as stating L-M-N-O asks the best questions

He's a smart mofo.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

LHX

Quote from: Baron von Hoopla
Quote from: LHXi would like to go on teh record as stating L-M-N-O asks the best questions

He's a smart mofo.

lets not get carried away here
neat hell

hooplala

Quote from: LHX
Quote from: Baron von Hoopla
Quote from: LHXi would like to go on teh record as stating L-M-N-O asks the best questions

He's a smart mofo.

lets not get carried away here

I said mofo . . .
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

LMNO

Seeing as I have some free time, let's go exploring, shall we?

Value seems to be divided into at least two categories:

1.   A tangible thing, coveted by others, that can be exchanged for other things.  In this sense, almost any noun can have value: a glass of water, a pencil, food, rocks (especially, the shiny, glittery ones), etc.

Take this up a meta level, and you can substitute markers for the thing of value, i.e. money.  When the concept of money outgrows the thing it represents, things tend to get fucked up, as seems to be the current case in most of the Western World.

2. An intangible thing, such as a learning experience (e.g. a ,Äúvaluable,Äù lesson), or a moral stance (e.g. family ,Äúvalues,Äù), etc.  In this sense, if a person can learn an/or grow/ and or be assisted in guidance through their existence, now every possible thing, possible and impossible, real and imagined, can have value, if there is a person who would find it valuable.

Once can use the latter value to obtain the former, or use the former to explore the latter.  What it seems to come down to in the end, however, is more game rules and subjective observations.  We collectively agree that money has value, and when we consider personally valuable is merely an aesthetic opinion.


But back to your original point:  Is information valuable?  Sometimes.  Some information (will it rain today?) is generally desired by a large amount of people.  However, it is currently fairly easy to get this information, so in order to gain tangible value ($$$) from intangible (weather forecast), one must use other methods to lure the subject in.  This is where your ,Äúdelivery system,Äù comes into effect.

On the other hand, things like the latest research and/or medical studies are not as desired, and are not as ubiquitous.  So, only a few select journals disseminate the information, and usually at a fairly steep price.  But this is all supply/demand economics, and is pretty boring.

The next thing to define, however is ,Äúinformation,Äù.  I,Äôve always enjoyed the mathematical definition, which is, roughly, ,Äúthe unpredictability of a signal.,Äù  Using that definition, the majority of blogs, newspapers, TV, pop music, etc has very little information.  And if you notice, the signals which contain a lot of information tend to be harder to find online/for free.

But then again, information can,Äôt be really called as such if a person doesn,Äôt understand/use it.  So it seems most of the truly important information out there isn,Äôt even recognized as such.

hooplala

"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

LMNO

Uppa you nose wit a rubbah hose.

LHX

do you think the value of food varies from person to person?
neat hell

LMNO

Sure:  Some people would pay $100 for a well-cooked meal at a restaraunt.  other would think it's not worth it, and go to McDonalds.


Also, if you were allegic to peanuts, a Reese's wouldn't have much value, would it?

LMNO

Some more thoughts I had while in the shower this morning...


some forms of "value" could be defined as "that which is useful in keeping you alive another day".  That could encompass both tangible things, as well as ideas or concepts.  In this way, stuff like money, or a house, could be grouped together with ideas like "don't lick the wall socket", and "drinking bleach is bad for you."

but other forms of value coul be considered "that which makes your experiential life more pleasant," and could include things that don't keep you alive, but do make you happy: music, booze, philosophy, Philip K Dick books, masturbation, etc.

It seems that in the broadest sense "information" can span both these ideas, in that some information will keep you alive, and some information will make your life better.

The issue of information not making your life better, or making it worse, is an interesting one, in that it seems initially to boil down to the optimist/pessimist paradigm, in that the person receiveing the information has a choice of how to use it in their lives, and their subjective reaction will shape how the information affects them.

Boy, I better get back to work & stop babbling.