The worst thread

[Triple Zero]

However, if it turns out to be, say, as much as to buy 10 friends a night of booze, I think that is not okay and they should give the money to PD as a community (maybe minus a sixpack).

addition: Since there are currently people from outside PD working on and submitting to IM issues, giving to the PD community would not be entirely fair.

So the above statement only applies to issues that have been published so far (which have been put together by PDers for the largest part).

For new issues, I propose that this discussion should be an example why it is important to be explicit about the licenses under which they accept submissions, especially if they intend to sell the issue.

Cause I see no reason why someone wouldnt call for submissions on an IM issue with the explicit statement that articles will be accepted under the express license that the issue will be sold for profit. Or some such.

The upside of an IM publication for profit would be incentive for the editor to continue putting effort into putting issues together, and spreading them in Meatspace, which may, if the Black Swan looks upon us favourably, result in a discordian magazine with a very wide audience.

As long as the authors submitting articles know where they stand before submitting.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

It seems to me, that if anyone wants to make money publishing something... they should probably do that as a separate project rather than trying to dual use Intermittens. Lots of blood, sweat and cash have gone into many of the projects here, from Intermittens to Radio Free Discordia to PD.com without people trying to make a buck on it. I think there is lots of room to make money on Discordian ideas/concepts/products etc. However, personally, I would probably take on for profit work on my own, or with a group of people specifically put together to do something for profit (example, rather than an issue of Intermittens, maybe some Discordian 'zine that a small group puts together on their own etc, rather than for profit ads during my show in RFD, maybe I'd publish my own podcast with ads).

I'm with Cain here.

That is all.

Then make sure your work is Copyright.

Cain isn't talking about Copyright, from what I read here. He may be, but what I see is someone asking where the fuck his cut is in his work being sold for profit without prior agreement.

And I agree.

I have made a post on Kopyleft Authors to reflect my view on this.

I'm happy for my work to be used but never for profit unless prior agreement is reached as to what my cut will be, and to what use my cut shall be used for.

I understand what Cain is saying, but that's why his work should be copyright and licensed rather than Kopyleft. Kopyleft basically says "Do whatever the fuck you want with this"... if you don't want people to do whatever the fuck they want with your content, you should copyright it and use an appropriate license like Creative Commons etc.

I have, up to this point used Kopyleft because I don't care if Cram sells what I write. I'm surprised enough that someone wants to read my stuff for free, let alone pay for it!!   If you think your work is valuable and you want to control it DO NEVAR USE KOPYLEFT.


Also I agree with 000's comment.

[Triple Zero]

Kopyleft basically says "Do whatever the fuck you want with this"...

no it doesnt, Kopyleft doesn't mean anything all, and that's why I urge everybody to stop using the word in serious discussion about intellectual property, because it just confuses matters.

Including this discussion.

Including the post you just made. Because you're once more confusing matters by implying that Kopyleft (which has no legal meaning) excludes Copyright (which has legal meaning and is implicitly assumed for any work that has no explicit license).

Getting legal nitty gritty about it, stating a work "is Kopyleft" is legally simply NOT considered a statement about intellectual property licensing, and therefore the work defaults to the regular implied copyright license.

And since I have seen "Kopyleft" be used with the intention to mean anything ranging from pure Public Domain up to the most restrictive Creative Commons license (which is not very restrictive, but doesnt allow commercial use for instance), it's very clear that not everybody agrees that it implies Public Domain, as you seem to suggest.

If you think your work is valuable and you want to control it DO NEVAR USE KOPYLEFT.

this is exactly the sort of confusing statement I was trying to prevent.

because this statement is true in some sense, false in some sense and meaningless in some sense. which is wonderfully discordian, but also very out of place in a serious discussion about intellectual property.

Also I agree with 000's comment.

that's great, but either you didnt really understand what I was trying to say, or you don't really agree

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I like what 000 has to say on this subject.

How about this: We agree to use the terms "Public Domain" and "Creative Commons" to replace the various permutations of "Kopyleft"?

[Cramulus]

Announcement:

I officially redact my intent to sell existing issues of Intermittens for profit.

[Triple Zero]

I like what 000 has to say on this subject.

How about this: We agree to use the terms "Public Domain" and "Creative Commons" to replace the various permutations of "Kopyleft"?

I agree wholeheartedly! but,

IMPORTANT

with the addition that they state WHICH Creative Commons license they want to use!

there's six of them, and they are explained here in six very simple non-legalese paragraphs:

http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses

do yourself a favour and check them out, it won't take a minute. pretty much ANY variation on "you're free to use my work provided ..." that I've seen people talk about on this board is covered under one of these six licenses.

IMO, Creative Commons is a Very Good Thing. and easy to use.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Kopyleft basically says "Do whatever the fuck you want with this"...

no it doesnt, Kopyleft doesn't mean anything all, and that's why I urge everybody to stop using the word in serious discussion about intellectual property, because it just confuses matters.

Including this discussion.

Including the post you just made. Because you're once more confusing matters by implying that Kopyleft (which has no legal meaning) excludes Copyright (which has legal meaning and is implicitly assumed for any work that has no explicit license).

Getting legal nitty gritty about it, stating a work "is Kopyleft" is legally simply NOT considered a statement about intellectual property licensing, and therefore the work defaults to the regular implied copyright license.

And since I have seen "Kopyleft" be used with the intention to mean anything ranging from pure Public Domain up to the most restrictive Creative Commons license (which is not very restrictive, but doesnt allow commercial use for instance), it's very clear that not everybody agrees that it implies Public Domain, as you seem to suggest.

If you think your work is valuable and you want to control it DO NEVAR USE KOPYLEFT.

this is exactly the sort of confusing statement I was trying to prevent.

because this statement is true in some sense, false in some sense and meaningless in some sense. which is wonderfully discordian, but also very out of place in a serious discussion about intellectual property.

Also I agree with 000's comment.

that's great, but either you didnt really understand what I was trying to say, or you don't really agree

When I say that my work is Kopyleft. I mean it in that sense, consider it "Copyright MU" or "Copyright Turkey Cursing". Copyright FNORD. Copyright "HOLY FUCK ITS A GODDESS-DAMNED INTERNET POST WHO THE FUCK CARES IF YOU REPRODUCE MY  WORK"

I have no desire to change my position simply because some other people suddenly decided their Discordian Poop was valuable.

My work is like all other Discordian works marked (k). If a person can't figure out what that means, maybe they shouldn't be using my work.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Some Discordian Poop is more valuable than others.

Just sayin.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Some Discordian Poop is more valuable than others.

Just sayin.

Then the people with valuable poop should make sure they get paid their weight.

[AFK]

This thread was very enlightening. 

I never knew Steve Jackson looked like a huge gigantic dork.  I suspected it of course. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Or would it be against all that's good and holy to sell kopyleft work?

Not as long as I get my cut.

Fuckers.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

over here in the states I had planned to use this guy Danny Chaoflux's small distribution press in Oregon (once he gets it set up). http://r6xx.com/

Failing that, all our scribus templates are formatted for magcloud.com - a print-on-demand magazine printer. They're expensive though - $0.20 per page. Can you get a per-page rate, inc. shipping?

The idea being that the editor can sell issues if he or she would like to. For my IM#1, I was gonna split my profits with Telarus (who put many hours into layout).


lol profits

I don't want any more of my stuff going into Intermittens.  Ever.

That is all.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

What?

You decided you were going to use my work to make money without me getting a cut?  This is fucking bullshit.  I worked on the presumption that Intermittens is free and that no-one profits from it, and that if any profits were made, they would go into improved distribution or site maintenence only.

Its bad enough I don't even have a job, but now to have my work used to make money for others without my say so?  Absolute fucking crap.  If this is the way Intermittens is going, then my work is no longer going to be featured.  At all.

What he said.

[Telarus]

No, we didn't DECIDE that. We decided to attempt to get physical copies of Intermittens made. THAT IS ALL. Everything past that was speculation/throwing ideas around.

Personally, if the decision was made to sell physical copies above cost I would have liked it to go into a 'black box' bank account until we had enough $$ to finance the Aporia, Inc game or similar mindfucks (or buying everyone on the Forum a fucking T-shirt or something).

My conversations with Cram re: MagCloud never got past "Well, we could set the price above cost but then what to do with the proceeds?" and some idle chatter about the editors, and chatter back about how to include the other contributors. I really never even got to express the bolded section above because Cram and I haven't really talked about this for months.

But at this point, I'm with Cram. If I do end up formatting the issues for MagCloud, they will be sold 'at cost'.

This whole thread makes me a sad panda.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

No, we didn't DECIDE that. We decided to attempt to get physical copies of Intermittens made. THAT IS ALL. Everything past that was speculation/throwing ideas around.

Personally, if the decision was made to sell physical copies above cost I would have liked it to go into a 'black box' bank account until we had enough $$ to finance the Aporia, Inc game or similar mindfucks (or buying everyone on the Forum a fucking T-shirt or something).

My conversations with Cram re: MagCloud never got past "Well, we could set the price above cost but then what to do with the proceeds?" and some idle chatter about the editors, and chatter back about how to include the other contributors. I really never even got to express the bolded section above because Cram and I haven't really talked about this for months.

But at this point, I'm with Cram. If I do end up formatting the issues for MagCloud, they will be sold 'at cost'.

This whole thread makes me a sad panda.

...

over here in the states I had planned to use this guy Danny Chaoflux's small distribution press in Oregon (once he gets it set up). http://r6xx.com/

Failing that, all our scribus templates are formatted for magcloud.com - a print-on-demand magazine printer. They're expensive though - $0.20 per page. Can you get a per-page rate, inc. shipping?

The idea being that the editor can sell issues if he or she would like to. For my IM#1, I was gonna split my profits with Telarus (who put many hours into layout).


lol profits