Life in the Age of Dumb, part 5: Nazis never die.

[Guido Finucci]

Any civilized human being would want to blow shit up upon learning that.

Funnily enough, I don't. Perhaps I am not civilised.

I was having a discussion this evening about all the shit going down in the US and the shit that US representatives (be they ambassadors, soldiers, politicians or whatever) are pulling wherever they happen to be. I think that my take on it all is that the citizens of the US have the right to self determination and what better expression of freedom could there be than to not even stop your representatives doing to foulest or stupidest things that they can think up? You are so free that you are even freed from being held accountable for your actions.

I'm told that King Solomon once said that, "justice will only be achieved when those who are not injured by crime feel as indignant as those who are". Maybe I am washing my hands of this. Maybe in doing so, I am denying those Iraqis the justice that they so rightly deserve. If I was an Iraqi, I'd probably be out hunting Americans by now.

Thing is though, I am not surprised. Not even a little bit. And if this doesn't surprise me, why should it make me want to blow shit up? I didn't want to before and nothing has changed now -- I still see Americans the same way; American until proven free-thinking.

[Guido Finucci]

Maybe the best option is expatriation, but somehow I think the rabid nationalism that gave rise to the nazi party in germany wont work here, at least not quietly.

I may be missing what you said, but it sounds to me as if you think Americans aren't rabidly nationalistic.

If so, please excuse me while I give you an incredulous look for as long as it takes my mind to stop boggling.

[Bella]

This is horrifying, and yet it doesn't surprise me.

Having spent more than a decade working with rape survivors and the families of homicide victims, I am unable to maintain the illusion that we are not a violent people living in a violent country. We sodomise and murder our own children. We torture each other in every conceivable manner on a regular basis, so one can only assume that we would be even worse to those who are labeled as "other" and "enemy".

The only elements I find surprising are that this was so blatantly and openly condoned by the administration (hell, they set the stage for this to happen) and the fact that it came to light as quickly as it did. Not that I ever thought this administration was above such actions....just that it surprises me they do little or nothing to hide it.

Of course nothing will happen to Rumsfeld.

And of course Iraqi women and girls are being raped, too, as are Iraqi men.

And also of course this is a symptom of something far worse.


I have to go bang my head on the table for a while now, please excuse me.

PS: Never underestimate the dangers of rabid nationalism.
We got it and we got it bad.

[gnimbley]

::wanders off to look for sanity and clarity::

[Wishfarple]

1. Build "volunteer army" by paying low wages so that it's composed of mostly disenfranchised youth and the working poor
2. Send army to a sandy hellhole for years at a stretch, ensuring massive demoralization and poverty at home
3. Throw in a dash of Neocon top-down authoritarian idealism
5. Allow the shat-upon members of your army some degree of control over prisoners

Voila!  Recipe for gross abuses of power and conduct unbecoming ANYBODY.  No, not surprised.  Sickened, saddened, but not surprised.  This isn't a slam against the military as a free-standing entity.  I agree with Orwell when he said, "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."  I thank them for this.  Just that I have a hard time believing anyone in Iraq was planning on doing me harm.  Well, "was".  

Maybe the real point of this war was to raise up a new generation of terrorists to War against.

[sakredchao]

"Maybe the real point of this war was to raise up a new generation of terrorists to War against."  -wishfart

you mean american revolutionary terrorists?  or the plain ol foriegn breed..?

kim

[Wishfarple]

Not sure it matters, to those in power.  As long as there's something to fight they can scare people into following them.  The scarier, the better, and the more rights can be loudly taken away in the name of National Security.

[Malaria test subject #777]

This is monstrous.

We all have the potential to be monsters.
Ya gotta stay on top of that part of your nature all the time.

War makes it harder to do that......that's all.

[SMFabal]

Anytime anyone is placed in control over prisoners - or anyone over whom they have total athority - there is not only potential, but likleyhood of abuse of power. Phycologists have known this for years - decades even; and when people are told by athority figures that some repugnant action is "nessasary", thay will do it, even if it causes great harm to someone else, even if that someone can be easily seen and cannot retaliate.

Makes me wonder about my fetishes, sometimes...

[chao]

i went looking through the new yorker..  the last 3 issues, couyldn't find it.

i did find 1 article by seymore hersh..  "national security plan b" which was mostly about how we didn't have a plan for iraq and were generally stupid.

which issue is it in?

kim

[Name Omitted by Request]

Global Guerrillas

May seem to be a counter terrorism site, but read and learn, oh my droogs.

[archPope Rocket P Llama]

I don't know what the problem is. Rumsfeld might, but the man sits in his tower and doesn't give a shit, because he doesn't HAVE to give a shit. And he'll be back for another 4 years, unless "something" happens to him. *blows out the candles on a birthday cake, wishing to Bohr*

Rabbid nationalism is hard to deal with. Hell, after 911 I was in favor of bombing the shit out of anything and everything. (But in my defense, I was only like 15 and pretty dumb, a conservative product of homeschooling who halfway trusted the government.) I mean, people like us have no real say, we're a minority. Sure there are plenty Michael Moore anti-Bushers out there, but I don't think too highly of Moore. He doesn't seem much brighter than Rush Limbaugh. Sure Shrub may loose this November, but what does it change? We;ll just have another establishment whore in place.

Perhaps the issue is enducation, but how do you educate against nationalism when nationalism is the policy? You get drummed out of the Teacher's Lounge and loose access to the coffee machine, and maybe your job.

I guess all we can do is stick to fucking around with people and making the best of what we're given and doing whatever we can to make things better. sigh.

[eighteen buddha strike]

Maybe the best option is expatriation, but somehow I think the rabid nationalism that gave rise to the nazi party in germany wont work here, at least not quietly.

I may be missing what you said, but it sounds to me as if you think Americans aren't rabidly nationalistic.

If so, please excuse me while I give you an incredulous look for as long as it takes my mind to stop boggling.

Yes, many americans are rabidly nationalistic, but there is also a lot of counterculture that exists in america. Its not quite so easy to lump americans into one huge group that can all agree, because its quite the opposite.

So give someone else the silly look.

[Horab Fibslager]

Maybe the best option is expatriation, but somehow I think the rabid nationalism that gave rise to the nazi party in germany wont work here, at least not quietly.

I may be missing what you said, but it sounds to me as if you think Americans aren't rabidly nationalistic.

If so, please excuse me while I give you an incredulous look for as long as it takes my mind to stop boggling.

Yes, many americans are rabidly nationalistic, but there is also a lot of counterculture that exists in america. Its not quite so easy to lump americans into one huge group that can all agree, because its quite the opposite.

So give someone else the silly look.

counterculture in america is manufactured adn packaged by the same folk whos brought you the establishment(tm).

[The Good Reverend Roger]

i went looking through the new yorker..  the last 3 issues, couyldn't find it.

i did find 1 article by seymore hersh..  "national security plan b" which was mostly about how we didn't have a plan for iraq and were generally stupid.

which issue is it in?

kim

Mis-spoke my source...I'm just too used to reading Sy Hersh in the New Yorker.  It was actually in the NITA journal.  However, the list of links I gave you (Washington Times, etc) give the same account.

However, th