Messages

"Explain to me patiently, throughly and in a civil manner why me calling <<Antifa>> a fascist organization, while im promoting authoritarianism and social exclusion is a flawed proposition?"

Obidex thinks insincere requests for information are fine.

I think you all know what this means.

If your whole approach to the world hasn't already been gone over ten billion times then you're probably not going to feel like it's been gone over ten billion times when somebody asks about it. I'm absolutely delighted when someone asks me to explain how things work. I don't understand what sea lioning is - if somebody asks for evidence I give it to them. if you're so exhausted by your own worldview maybe that's something you should consider. and by "your" I mean, reading the topic here, it's clear we're talking about truths that have nothing to do with your own conjecture.

What do you mean by exhausted by your own worldview?

[Bob: But weren't the Irish slaves, too? They're white, it sounds like it wasn't about skin color.]

if somebody asks for evidence I give it to them.

Alice: There is systemic racism in the US policing and justice system, and I have a plan to fix that.
Bob: What do you mean by "Racism"?

Alice: ***insert 20 minute historical review of racism in America***

Bob: But weren't the Irish slaves, too?  They're white, it sounds like it wasn't about skin color.

Alice: ***insert 30 minute explanation about the difference between chattel slavery and indentured servitude***

Bob: Yeah, but they were white, right?

Alice: ***insert 40 minute diatribe about the social construction of "whiteness", and who is allowed to be white***

Bob: So what makes it "Systemic"?




At this point, Alice has spent an hour and a half talking, and never got to the main issue at hand.  And this was precisely what Bob wanted to happen.  Bob is Sea-Lioning.

That is indeed sealioning with the addition of weaponized what-about-ism... which makes me wonder if they're inseparable if sealioning is to be an effective strategy.

If your whole approach to the world hasn't already been gone over ten billion times then you're probably not going to feel like it's been gone over ten billion times when somebody asks about it. I'm absolutely delighted when someone asks me to explain how things work. I don't understand what sea lioning is - if somebody asks for evidence I give it to them. if you're so exhausted by your own worldview maybe that's something you should consider. and by "your" I mean, reading the topic here, it's clear we're talking about truths that have nothing to do with your own conjecture.

What do you mean by exhausted by your own worldview?

I've always thought bananas were gross and coffee is OK.

Oh god, have I had covid my entire life?

Always has been.

[in favor of an alliance based on intersubjective tough love.]

On second thought, next rape victim that comes for treatment, i'll serve them Datura tea, boop their nose and ears repeatedly while telling them to think of puppies instead of "bad things", and tell them that "some feelings and behaviors are maladaptive, and showing them better alternatives" as DBT technique dictates.

BTW:

DBT strives to have the patient view the therapist as an ally rather than an adversary in the treatment of psychological issues.
[...]
Linehan and others combined a commitment to the core conditions of acceptance and change through the principle of dialectics (in which thesis and antithesis are synthesized) and assembled an array of skills for emotional self-regulation drawn from Western psychological traditions, such as cognitive behavioral therapy and an interpersonal variant, "assertiveness training", and contemplative meditative traditions, such as mindfulness meditation. One of her contributions was to alter the adversarial nature of the therapist-client relationship in favor of an alliance based on intersubjective tough love.

[...] What sort of fear is fueling this?  [...]

.

Also, i self nominate that for newsfeed.

What the fuck did you all do? I was hoping to hook up for a weekend fling and you done fucked the dog. Oh well. I can find other dogs. That said, why does everyone want to jump on this person? Oh right, because of the toxicity present here that never leaves. Ok, you do that, I'll fart.

Yes were horrible toxic people, because this is 2020's Mental Illness Olympics, and the winners get a free pass on giving life-threatening advice with the bonus of having zero accountability for their shit behaviour.

Eh, i mean, Bach Flowers are the archetypical homeopathic treatment which is just brandy, water and ground up flowers, which is practically impossible to get harm from them... the problem is that some homeopaths wanna play "undeducated witch" and create herbal remedies with plants that actually have active ingredients, and since they dont have a strict manufacturing process, the dosage is always fucked... thats why i say that homeopaths peddle not only placebos. Maybe its a latin phenomena where homeopaths are also almost always part shaman-wannabes.

Did you see Pillow Guy pushing OLEANDER for Covid 19?

I mean okay, if you eat oleander, I promise you that you won't die from Covid 19.

I hadnt, but now i have:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/27/opinions/oleandrin-unproven-drug-covid-mypillow-sepkowitz/index.html

Its kind of funny, so much effort and resources spent on trying to find therapeutic uses of what for all purposes is rat poison.

Ah yes, and one more thing, who has the audacity of accussing others of suggesting "quick and easy fixes" when they think that tapping their forehead and thinking happy thoughts is a solution to ANYTHING.

I never said a quick fix existed, but if were not being civil about it, by all means try to find a cure in pseudoscience, nobody cares.

And i mean, if you want us to just nod our heads without giving our own thoughts on the matter, i think you got the wrong place. This is not a "safe-space", some say "Discordia is not nice", so do whatever. Welcome to my ever growing ignore list.

That's just an attempt at displacing and repressing traumatic memories/representations without actually treating them, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

*CNO: im not much for "results oriented thinking",[...]... the question of if your condition was purely organical or psychical could currently be irrelevant to you as a patient, but to me as a practitioner would be of interest, even if its already "cured", but i dont think either of us wants to get into that.

I suspect my issues are fundamentally organic, although of course I don't have conclusive evidence for this.  I would much prefer it if they had traced it down to a specific root cause, rather than simply giving my condition a label, and nodding sagely once the SSRIs cut in, but the mental health system has limited resources, and the science may simply not exist yet.

-One problem with homeopathy, is that as far as im informed, the literal unregulated TRASH they peddle does not follow a precise and scientific manufacturing process, that is to say, the milligrams of substances present in a given dose of whatever, have extreme variance, thats some of the reasons people die from it.

-So besides the unregulated remedies of homeopathy, the issue of placebos is an entirely different subject, because a placebo is defined by having literally no active substances, and working purely by "suggestion" (or as sometimes its called "deception").

As I understand it, homeopathic solutions are, by nature, diluted to the point where there is no (or almost no) active ingredient present, so I consider them to be effectively placebos, albeit coated with a very heavy layer of pseudoscience.

As i was saying, placebo comes under the category of suggestion, which is the successor to hypnosis... is it fraudulent and unethical? Yes and no... this type of "cure" or "treatment" only exists because people DEMAND an organic explanation or medicational solution to their psychic problems.

[...]

I have collegues that are medical doctors, and they have a certain subset of patients that are not exactly hypochondriacs, but similar to them, and they wont ever stop complaining about their imaginary illness... so these patients either accept a referral to psychotherapy, or get prescribed a placebo. That is to say, they either manage to accept they have a psychological problem, or get treated like children with a magical pill.

This seems like a grey area.  Presenting someone with fake cures for real problems (like homeopathy does), I obviously object to.  But, if someone isn't genuinely ill, and prescribing them a placebo alleviates the symptoms of their hypochondria...well, it's not an ideal solution, but I can't easily dismiss it as unethical.  It depends on the context.  There is a certain symmetry to treating fake ailments with fake medicines.

Eh, i mean, Bach Flowers are the archetypical homeopathic treatment which is just brandy, water and ground up flowers, which is practically impossible to get harm from them... the problem is that some homeopaths wanna play "undeducated witch" and create herbal remedies with plants that actually have active ingredients, and since they dont have a strict manufacturing process, the dosage is always fucked... thats why i say that homeopaths peddle not only placebos. Maybe its a latin phenomena where homeopaths are also almost always part shaman-wannabes.

From my perspective theres no "fake ailments/illness", its just a matter of bad diagnosis: what you might call a "fake physiological illness" i would call it a "real mental illness"... that these people are dead set on getting their real mental illness treated thru physiological solutions, just speaks of their stubborness and the magnitude of their mental illness.

And well, so called "depression", hallucinations and a range of ailments with physiological manifestations are just symptoms for which the root cause can be wildly different... but a lot of people dont care about root causes and want to just get by and "hopefully it will go away eventually" or "this is good enough" attitude... a lot of people are stuck (or feel like they are) in bad life situations, and if they feel like theyre impossibly stuck then they just want remedies without rubbing their noses against something they cannot change... when people want to change their situation, and can do it, thats when introspection into inner conflict can be beneficial.

Dealing with trauma is a bit different, because thats like going to the gym - it takes actual emotional work to grind down the effect that those memories have on us, and well, a lot of people dont want to allocate resources on that or have different priorities.

As i was saying, placebo comes under the category of suggestion, which is the successor to hypnosis... is it fraudulent and unethical? Yes and no... this type of "cure" or "treatment" only exists because people DEMAND an organic explanation or medicational solution to their psychic problems.

"Doctor! I have this migraine, paralysis or twitch that I have seen over two dozen medical specialists and all of them cannot find a physiological reason for it! They tell me im in perfect health and that i must be either crazy or simulating! Since OBVIOUSLY im not crazy nor simulating, i will continue on my quest for the holy grail - which coincidentally i found with a homeopath!"

I have collegues that are medical doctors, and they have a certain subset of patients that are not exactly hypochondriacs, but similar to them, and they wont ever stop complaining about their imaginary illness... so these patients either accept a referral to psychotherapy, or get prescribed a placebo. That is to say, they either manage to accept they have a psychological problem, or get treated like children with a magical pill.

Now, the real problem with all suggestion based treatments, be it placebo pills, hypnosis and possibly DBT, is that the patient becomes dependant on the practitioner and submissive to its authority and judgement... they get "cured" for a couple of months, but they always come back, because their "physical illness" is just a displacement of their "mental illness".

But you see, there's people that either have zero capacity for introspection, or combatively refuse to have insight... for such cases is it such a crime to treat them with placebos if thats what they so desperately desire?