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Do you believe in a soul?

Started by The Dark Monk, November 07, 2008, 01:51:39 AM

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Revenant

Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:15:51 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:13:07 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:10:46 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:08:37 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:05:49 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:00:28 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 05:57:53 AM
Re:  profit  So which do you find more viable to explain the universe, science or philosophy?

Neither, the universe is too vast to be explained by us.  It is akin to a micro-organism trying to explain humans to each other.

The universe being all-inclusive.

The micro-organism's universe includes the micro-organism.

Let's use something simple, something that our own perceptions go through scientific method to figure out.  "Does fire hurt?"

See "Does fire hurt?" is not the actual question.  We learn from experience that indeed it does.

And that, by definition, is science.

No, that by definition is life, which forms the foundations for philosophy.

"We learn from experience that indeed it does."

Did we learn that fire hurts through science or philosophy?

Experience, things do exist outside of science and philosophy.

Idem

Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:11:34 AM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on November 12, 2008, 06:06:47 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:04:07 AM
Quote from: Kai on November 12, 2008, 06:01:48 AM
Also, fuck this. I'm not going to waste any more time trying to explain basic biology to a person whom it is wasted upon. I have better things to do with my time.

Spoken like a true fanatic.

Fuck off. Just because you can't apply anything credible to your babbling pseudo-scientific musings doesn't give you the right to call Kai a fanatic.


No, his statements of "If it is not science, it is useless."
But it is useless for any practical reasons.  I can think about what ideas are innate and what ideas aren't all I like, but I'm not about to claim me thinking about that has any practical application.

Idem

Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:16:40 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:15:51 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:13:07 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:10:46 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:08:37 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:05:49 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:00:28 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 05:57:53 AM
Re:  profit  So which do you find more viable to explain the universe, science or philosophy?

Neither, the universe is too vast to be explained by us.  It is akin to a micro-organism trying to explain humans to each other.

The universe being all-inclusive.

The micro-organism's universe includes the micro-organism.

Let's use something simple, something that our own perceptions go through scientific method to figure out.  "Does fire hurt?"

See "Does fire hurt?" is not the actual question.  We learn from experience that indeed it does.

And that, by definition, is science.

No, that by definition is life, which forms the foundations for philosophy.

"We learn from experience that indeed it does."

Did we learn that fire hurts through science or philosophy?

Experience, things do exist outside of science and philosophy.
Experience is that which is derived through observation.

Science is that which is derived through observation.

Philosophy is that which is derived through thought independent of observation.

Revenant

Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:18:12 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:11:34 AM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on November 12, 2008, 06:06:47 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:04:07 AM
Quote from: Kai on November 12, 2008, 06:01:48 AM
Also, fuck this. I'm not going to waste any more time trying to explain basic biology to a person whom it is wasted upon. I have better things to do with my time.

Spoken like a true fanatic.

Fuck off. Just because you can't apply anything credible to your babbling pseudo-scientific musings doesn't give you the right to call Kai a fanatic.


No, his statements of "If it is not science, it is useless."
But it is useless for any practical reasons.  I can think about what ideas are innate and what ideas aren't all I like, but I'm not about to claim me thinking about that has any practical application.

Why not? Does thinking about them give you possibilities on which paths to take within your life?  I would say that is practical.  

Revenant

Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:20:05 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:16:40 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:15:51 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:13:07 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:10:46 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:08:37 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 06:05:49 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:00:28 AM
Quote from: Idem on November 12, 2008, 05:57:53 AM
Re:  profit  So which do you find more viable to explain the universe, science or philosophy?

Neither, the universe is too vast to be explained by us.  It is akin to a micro-organism trying to explain humans to each other.

The universe being all-inclusive.

The micro-organism's universe includes the micro-organism.

Let's use something simple, something that our own perceptions go through scientific method to figure out.  "Does fire hurt?"

See "Does fire hurt?" is not the actual question.  We learn from experience that indeed it does.

And that, by definition, is science.

No, that by definition is life, which forms the foundations for philosophy.

"We learn from experience that indeed it does."

Did we learn that fire hurts through science or philosophy?

Experience, things do exist outside of science and philosophy.
Experience is that which is derived through observation.

Science is that which is derived through observation.

Philosophy is that which is derived through thought independent of observation.


No Experience is anything you encounter.  Whether the tree falls on you, or you are struck by lightning. Everything around you and happens to you is experience.

Science is an attempt to understand those experiences using a structured method.

Philosophy is an attempt to understand experience.

Revenant

#155
Honestly, when it all boils down to it all, it really does not matter what I think or believe or feel. It doesn't matter what scientist around the world tell you or show you or sell you.  What it comes down to is if you have not experienced it for yourself, it is all pure drivel, meaningless word with no personal context. 


With that I am out for tonight and probably won't be returning to this thread anytime soon.  It is apparent my message of "We could all be wrong or right, decide for yourself." isn't making through this evening.

Idem

#156
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:24:07 AM
No Experience is anything you encounter.  Whether the tree falls on you, or you are struck by lightning. Everything around you and happens to you is experience.

Science is an attempt to understand those experiences using a structured method.

Philosophy is an attempt to understand experience.
In the case of "Does fire hurt?", the case is different.  You are describing a different "experience" than before.

With this new definition, I would agree that it is separate.

But in the case where you said learning fire hurts = experience, I would disagree.

Experience is seeing the light of the fire.  Experience is feeling the pain of the fire.  Experience is hearing the crackling of it.  Experience is smelling the burnt smell.  All separate, all inconsequential to each other.

Science is coordinating all of these together.

Nast

Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:28:15 AM
Honestly, when it all boils down to it all, it really does not matter what I think or believe or feel. It doesn't matter what scientist around the world tell you or show you or sell you.  What it comes down to is if you have not experienced it for yourself, it is all pure drivel, meaningless word with no personal context. 


With that I am out for tonight and probably won't be returning to this thread anytime soon.  It is apparent my message of "We could all be wrong or right, decide for yourself." isn't making through this evening.

Yes, let's all sit around in our mud huts and shit ourselves to death of cholera because WE NEED TO EXPERIENCE IT FOR OURSELVES TO KNOW THAT IT SUCKS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THOSE GODDAMN EMPIRICAL SCIENTISTS TELL US ABOUT IT.

Nasturtiums,
is now a caps-lock zealot
"If I owned Goodwill, no charity worker would feel safe.  I would sit in my office behind a massive pile of cocaine, racking my pistol's slide every time the cleaning lady came near.  Auditors, I'd just shoot."

ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞

Quote from: Nasturtiums on November 12, 2008, 06:32:19 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:28:15 AM
Honestly, when it all boils down to it all, it really does not matter what I think or believe or feel. It doesn't matter what scientist around the world tell you or show you or sell you.  What it comes down to is if you have not experienced it for yourself, it is all pure drivel, meaningless word with no personal context. 


With that I am out for tonight and probably won't be returning to this thread anytime soon.  It is apparent my message of "We could all be wrong or right, decide for yourself." isn't making through this evening.

Yes, let's all sit around in our mud huts and shit ourselves to death of cholera because WE NEED TO EXPERIENCE IT FOR OURSELVES TO KNOW THAT IT SUCKS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THOSE GODDAMN EMPIRICAL SCIENTISTS TELL US ABOUT IT.

Nasturtiums,
is now a caps-lock zealot

:lulz:
P E R   A S P E R A   A D   A S T R A

Idem

Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:28:15 AM
Honestly, when it all boils down to it all, it really does not matter what I think or believe or feel. It doesn't matter what scientist around the world tell you or show you or sell you.  What it comes down to is if you have not experienced it for yourself, it is all pure drivel, meaningless word with no personal context. 


With that I am out for tonight and probably won't be returning to this thread anytime soon.  It is apparent my message of "We could all be wrong or right, decide for yourself." isn't making through this evening.
I'm retiring as well.

Nast

Quote from: Net on November 12, 2008, 06:32:54 AM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on November 12, 2008, 06:32:19 AM
Quote from: False Profit on November 12, 2008, 06:28:15 AM
Honestly, when it all boils down to it all, it really does not matter what I think or believe or feel. It doesn't matter what scientist around the world tell you or show you or sell you.  What it comes down to is if you have not experienced it for yourself, it is all pure drivel, meaningless word with no personal context. 


With that I am out for tonight and probably won't be returning to this thread anytime soon.  It is apparent my message of "We could all be wrong or right, decide for yourself." isn't making through this evening.

Yes, let's all sit around in our mud huts and shit ourselves to death of cholera because WE NEED TO EXPERIENCE IT FOR OURSELVES TO KNOW THAT IT SUCKS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THOSE GODDAMN EMPIRICAL SCIENTISTS TELL US ABOUT IT.

Nasturtiums,
is now a caps-lock zealot

:lulz:

LOOK AT ME, THE MAJUSCULES JUST SCREAM EXTREMIST!
"If I owned Goodwill, no charity worker would feel safe.  I would sit in my office behind a massive pile of cocaine, racking my pistol's slide every time the cleaning lady came near.  Auditors, I'd just shoot."

Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ

ONLY SOUL I BELIEVE IN IS SOUL FOOD! NOM

Bu🤠ns


P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: Kai on November 12, 2008, 06:01:48 AMI really don't even know how to put this....SPERMIES SWIM IN SUGAR FLUID.

LIES! Sperm tastes salty :argh!:

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

bones

Jesus Fucking Christ!  :eek:

Why the big circle-jerk about some idea of FP's not being SCIENCE?

This thread is called "Do you BELIEVE in a SOUL?", not "PROVE whether there's a soul with SCIENCE"

I can't even begin to cite references ITT, because it's way to long and circular and filled with BS, but it never occurred to me that the good Profit was making some scientific hypothesis with need for experimental evidence, he was just giving an idea, a perspective, and he even said it could be a lie.  IMO KAI you have been totally unfair here, no need to have a cactus up your ass just because you've got a degree in biology and he suggested something that YOU think is unfounded crap. I think FP has held his own pretty well ITT, where you have been a little bit fanatical.

Keep the psychotic science pedantry out of a thread about belief.

Oh and "just thinking about it" is pretty much how Einstein came up with relativity. Philosophy or science?

Where has your "true-in-a" sense gone?  :fnord:

bones,
-braced for the flames (all I wanted to know was how much it weighs  :cry:)
filmmusic