Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Or Kill Me => Topic started by: AFK on October 17, 2006, 03:19:57 PM

Title: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on October 17, 2006, 03:19:57 PM
Discordians, Subgenii, undecideds, lend me your ear.....

Election day cometh upon us soon.  Are you happy with the direction of your country?  Are you happy with the size of your bank account?  Are you happy with the size of your manhood/womanhood?  Have you stopped reading?  If you answered the first 3 but not the last one then you best keep moving, we don't want you.

How can we weirdos, asshats, miscreants really affect our society?  We aren't going to do it by simple housekeeping.  We need to unite.  But, we need to unite and minimize the bloodletting.  I said minimize, not eliminate, where would the fun be in that? 

Long has society lead us astray.  Long has it told us where we should and should not go.  Long has it told us what to eat and what not to eat.  Meanwhile, we Discordians have been in our little hovels spread across the globe.  We talk big talk about fucking up the system.  About burning it to the ground.  About skull fucking the Pinkos and The Normals.  But how effective can we really be if we all stick apart and stick forks in each others eyes?

That's right, we can't.  They will never take us seriously anyway.  It should never be the goal.  We aren't going to change society.  We aren't going to save the world.  We aren't going to make the Conservatives OR the Liberals accept us.  The Conservatives want to burn us at the stake.  The Liberals don't like us because we don't give them any money.  The Libertarians don't like us because we steal their pot.  The Greens don't like us because we eat meat and don't recycle our soda cans.  But more importantly, THOSE Discordians over there don't like us because we aren't THEIR kind of Discordians.

This is what defeats us EVERY SINGLE TIME.  We lose before we even begin.  The second coming becomes the third becomes the fourth becomes an empty fifth.  Can we break this viscous cycle?

I don't know.  But I'd sure as hell like to try.  What if each of us found just three Discordians, elsewhere on the infotarded superdriveway and convinced them to join our effort.  That's right, to join our effort.  Not our clique, not our all boys/girls club, not our cabal.  Bring them here with a purpose.  They've read the book, they're heard ALL of the jokes, they've had the Kerry Thornley bowl cut with the Abraham Lincoln beard.  Now's the time to cast the superficial aside and get down to the rusty brass tacks.

I propose we start a REAL network of Discordians.  Maybe we won't all hang out here, maybe we won't all hang out there, but that SHOULD NOT BE THE POINT.  If we truly wish to get the word out we need to get the lead out.  Let us not dwell on who is real and who isn't.  Let us focus, instead, on who will get real and who will not.  Who will bring the noise AND the funk, not just the noise. 

We all have busy lives in the real world.  We don't have time to dick around with popularity contests and who is going to like who.  It is time to start showing those who wish to see that they don't have to play the same old game.  There are more options than what they see on the teevee and on their ballots.  This is our chance to actually reach people.  There are people who are beginning to see that everything is fucked.  That the options they are given are all opt-outs from freedom.  So, let us get the act together, forget about OUR politics and work on defecating on THEIRS. 

Free at The Last, Free at The Last, by holy-fucking-hell, we can be Free at The Last, and so can they........
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: The Mgt on October 17, 2006, 06:30:33 PM
10/10.

you mind if I move this to "Or Kill Me"? I think this is a hell of a rant.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Charlemagne on October 17, 2006, 06:32:48 PM
Beautiful.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on October 17, 2006, 07:06:05 PM
Quote from: The Mgt on October 17, 2006, 06:30:33 PM
10/10.

you mind if I move this to "Or Kill Me"? I think this is a hell of a rant.

Yeah, I think that's fine.  I'm actually working on a letter I'm going to use for networking purposes and I will post that here when it's done.  So yeah, you have my blessing to move it to "Or Kill Me."   :-D
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jenne on October 19, 2006, 03:44:38 AM
Wow, RWHN.  Your fire-in-the-belly quotient is up, WAY up this month, eh?

Awesomely said.  Very astute.  You know your peeps, that's for sure.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Triple Zero on October 19, 2006, 02:39:07 PM
ok. where shall i direct them? this thread? anywhere on this forum? somewhere specific?

if they're already discordians, they need not much info
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jasper on October 19, 2006, 04:03:04 PM
It offends.  You want a spear holder, count me out.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Triple Zero on October 19, 2006, 04:07:23 PM
Quote from: Felix Mackay on October 19, 2006, 04:03:04 PMIt offends.  You want a spear holder, count me out.
? what are you refering to?

what offends?
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jasper on October 19, 2006, 04:24:29 PM
Quote from: triple zero on October 19, 2006, 04:07:23 PM
Quote from: Felix Mackay on October 19, 2006, 04:03:04 PMIt offends.  You want a spear holder, count me out.
? what are you refering to?

what offends?

The rant.  The original post.  The topic of this thread that we are talking about.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: East Coast Hustle on October 19, 2006, 04:47:04 PM
eh? elaborate please.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jasper on October 19, 2006, 04:52:47 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 17, 2006, 03:19:57 PM
Discordians, Subgenii, undecideds, lend me your ear.....

Election day cometh upon us soon.  Are you happy with the direction of your country?  Are you happy with the size of your bank account?  Are you happy with the size of your manhood/womanhood?  Have you stopped reading?  If you answered the first 3 but not the last one then you best keep moving, we don't want you.

How can we weirdos, asshats, miscreants really affect our society?  We aren't going to do it by simple housekeeping.  We need to unite.  But, we need to unite and minimize the bloodletting.  I said minimize, not eliminate, where would the fun be in that? 

Long has society lead us astray.  Long has it told us where we should and should not go.  Long has it told us what to eat and what not to eat.  Meanwhile, we Discordians have been in our little hovels spread across the globe.  We talk big talk about fucking up the system.  About burning it to the ground.  About skull fucking the Pinkos and The Normals.  But how effective can we really be if we all stick apart and stick forks in each others eyes?

That's right, we can't.  They will never take us seriously anyway.  It should never be the goal.  We aren't going to change society.  We aren't going to save the world.  We aren't going to make the Conservatives OR the Liberals accept us.  The Conservatives want to burn us at the stake.  The Liberals don't like us because we don't give them any money.  The Libertarians don't like us because we steal their pot.  The Greens don't like us because we eat meat and don't recycle our soda cans.  But more importantly, THOSE Discordians over there don't like us because we aren't THEIR kind of Discordians.

This is what defeats us EVERY SINGLE TIME.  We lose before we even begin.  The second coming becomes the third becomes the fourth becomes an empty fifth.  Can we break this viscous cycle?

I don't know.  But I'd sure as hell like to try.  What if each of us found just three Discordians, elsewhere on the infotarded superdriveway and convinced them to join our effort.  That's right, to join our effort.  Not our clique, not our all boys/girls club, not our cabal.  Bring them here with a purpose.  They've read the book, they're heard ALL of the jokes, they've had the Kerry Thornley bowl cut with the Abraham Lincoln beard.  Now's the time to cast the superficial aside and get down to the rusty brass tacks.

I propose we start a REAL network of Discordians.  Maybe we won't all hang out here, maybe we won't all hang out there, but that SHOULD NOT BE THE POINT.  If we truly wish to get the word out we need to get the lead out.  Let us not dwell on who is real and who isn't.  Let us focus, instead, on who will get real and who will not.  Who will bring the noise AND the funk, not just the noise. 

We all have busy lives in the real world.  We don't have time to dick around with popularity contests and who is going to like who.  It is time to start showing those who wish to see that they don't have to play the same old game.  There are more options than what they see on the teevee and on their ballots.  This is our chance to actually reach people.  There are people who are beginning to see that everything is fucked.  That the options they are given are all opt-outs from freedom.  So, let us get the act together, forget about OUR politics and work on defecating on THEIRS. 

Free at The Last, Free at The Last, by holy-fucking-hell, we can be Free at The Last, and so can they........

This rhetoric, it stinks to me of extremism and is not the voice I want heard in the name of my cause.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jasper on October 19, 2006, 04:57:53 PM
I do not wish it that serious people take the reins of a serious movement.  It is not what these serious times need.

That is all.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jenne on October 19, 2006, 05:23:51 PM
Quote from: Felix Mackay on October 19, 2006, 04:57:53 PM
I do not wish it that serious people take the reins of a serious movement. It is not what these serious times need.

That is all.

You sure he wasn't saying it doesn't matter if you're serious or not, you simply won't be taken that way anyway?

Hm.  I wonder what the good rev would make of that.  It's a good point, Felix.  I'm just not sure if he meant it the way you have taken it.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: East Coast Hustle on October 19, 2006, 05:32:35 PM
also, define "extremism" in this context. this certainly doesn't fit my definition, but my POV on the matter may be skewed.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jasper on October 20, 2006, 03:03:47 AM
In public addresses, as I recall it was intended as such it is irrelevant what the intent is once the message is compromised.

Needs polish, and a re-think about where he's coming from and what he believes in.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jasper on October 20, 2006, 03:06:08 AM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on October 19, 2006, 05:32:35 PM
also, define "extremism" in this context. this certainly doesn't fit my definition, but my POV on the matter may be skewed.

For our purposes, absolutes about what need to be done and words like should and ought.

Call me cautious and trepid, but I dislike the message and tone.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: East Coast Hustle on October 20, 2006, 06:41:49 AM
OK, that's valid.

I didn't get any sense of demagoguery out of it, but I've met RWHN in person so again, my opinion is skewed compared to someone who's just reading it fresh. I agree that we need to make a concerted effort to police ourselves so as not to end up sonding like (or even becoming) what we spend so much time railing against, but I think the merit of what RWHN was saying outweighs any negative connotations or nuance that might leak through.

YMMV.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jasper on October 20, 2006, 07:19:31 AM
I do appreciate the energy though.

I'd hand over a decent score if he reworded a lot of small things.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Triple Zero on October 20, 2006, 10:26:17 AM
i think that any attempt at the wrong/extreme kind of discordian activism will blow up from the inside due to the nature of discordianism (and with that, some other kinds of discordian activism as well - just because).

leading to the following observations

- you (felix) are probably the first sign of such :)
- perhaps rwhn's plan is doomed from the start
- i'd like to see the "rewording of a lot of things", perhaps it proves me wrong

btw re-reading rwhn's piece with your viewpoint as far as you described, i can see how it seems offensive.

on the other hand, it also seems like what needs to be done to get O:Mf as it sits now to take off from the mental masturbation level. because i get the strong impression that there's a lot more talk about O:Mf and only a few actually doing stuff (and then this doing stuff seems to happen mostly online -- though i myself would be reluctant to post about bigger RL mindfucks as well)

on a completely different note. it is a fact that people here have long loooong toes and get into verbal fights etc almost constantly. that's a form of discord. i would say we channel the spirit of Eris quite nicely.
- but does it really stop or hinder our efforts? take a look at the PD06 project, it started at first here, then the board broke down all sorts of blah happened and i saw people talking down about PD06 that "it was already dead before it took off", "we only did the BIP pamphlet but the others (lollercaust and mystical PD) were failures" etc. but the negative talk happened only in the in-between lag of activity of chaos/boardswitching etc, now at the Discordian Network (BIP/pdcomrefuge-forum) we are back and dedicated at working on it (even though not much finished has come out of it yet, there is some pretty good material)
- also, i wonder if other discordian communities on the net experience the same kind of constant quarreling? they are more fluffy rainbow discordians right?
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on October 20, 2006, 02:25:39 PM
Okay, I am going to address the section Felix highlighted one by one:

QuoteHow can we weirdos, asshats, miscreants really affect our society?  We aren't going to do it by simple housekeeping.  We need to unite.  But, we need to unite and minimize the bloodletting.  I said minimize, not eliminate, where would the fun be in that? 

This obviously refers to cleaning up PD.com after its period of languishment and flame-wars which has dominated its existence for the better part of the past year.  The point I was making is that we need to try to find a way to co-exist in a way that is productive but that doesn't squelch our fire.  This, of course, is working on the premise that what we wish to do is a collective is to be productive.  If we just wish for this place to be purely social (which there is nothing wrong with) then this whole rant is moot and you may cease reading anything written hereafter.

QuoteLong has society lead us astray.  Long has it told us where we should and should not go.  Long has it told us what to eat and what not to eat.  Meanwhile, we Discordians have been in our little hovels spread across the globe.  We talk big talk about fucking up the system.  About burning it to the ground.  About skull fucking the Pinkos and The Normals. But how effective can we really be if we all stick apart and stick forks in each others eyes?

I believe this is where "extremist lanugage" comes into play.  Look, sometimes using fancy metaphors and 60's slapstick can be good vehicles for getting your point across.  Sometimes, using a nail-ridden 2x4 is also appropriate.  Obviously, I'm using the latter tool in this rant, which, is what makes it a "rant."  My whole point was really a more blunt reitiration of the first which was, do we want to turn The System on its ear?  Well, we're not going to do it if we are constantly gnawing on each other's ears. 

QuoteThat's right, we can't.  They will never take us seriously anyway. It should never be the goal.  We aren't going to change society.  We aren't going to save the world.  We aren't going to make the Conservatives OR the Liberals accept us.  The Conservatives want to burn us at the stake.  The Liberals don't like us because we don't give them any money.  The Libertarians don't like us because we steal their pot.  The Greens don't like us because we eat meat and don't recycle our soda cans.  But more importantly, THOSE Discordians over there don't like us because we aren't THEIR kind of Discordians.

I'm not quite sure what Felix's problem is with this particular passage.  Maybe I could have made this one a bit clearer.  I was simply trying to say that the vast majority of the public is never going to pay attention to anything we ever say.  It will be dismissed as kooky, weird, geeky, verbal terrorism, etc., etc.,  I was also, with the latter part of this paragraph trying to illustrate how the Discordians are unique.  Especially in America people look at someone as Liberal, Conservative, or wishy washy (read Moderate).  Discordians, I believe, manage to travel a whole different ground that can't be put into any of these categories.  We should relish that and find others who wish to tread that same ground.  There won't be many, but, the few we find will be better of when the shit hits the fan.

QuoteI propose we start a REAL network of Discordians.  Maybe we won't all hang out here, maybe we won't all hang out there, but that SHOULD NOT BE THE POINT.  If we truly wish to get the word out we need to get the lead out.  Let us not dwell on who is real and who isn't.  Let us focus, instead, on who will get real and who will not.  Who will bring the noise AND the funk, not just the noise. 

This is where the "I Have a Nightmare..." comes in.  I have a, admittedly lofty vision, of a sort of united federation or collaborative of Discordians.  We know there are other Discordians who hang out at different parts of the web.  Those of us who live in urban areas may even know some Discordian haunts.  I think, if we are really serious about a PD06 or something similar, the more voices the better.  Simultaneously, if that is our aim, we need to focus on those who are going to bring it.  Steve Jackson failed at producing a PD sequel as he wanted to.  I think there is a reason for that, other than him being an asshat.  Not getting enough voices. 

So, I hope I've cleared things up.  Any further questions please let me know.  Thanks. 
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on October 20, 2006, 02:37:04 PM
Let me end by saying that for whatever reason the heart of what I was trying to say was getting lost.  I believe some are focusing too much on the stage I set and not the plot itself which is this:

Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 17, 2006, 03:19:57 PM
I don't know.  But I'd sure as hell like to try.  What if each of us found just three Discordians, elsewhere on the infotarded superdriveway and convinced them to join our effort.  That's right, to join our effort.  Not our clique, not our all boys/girls club, not our cabal.  Bring them here with a purpose.  They've read the book, they're heard ALL of the jokes, they've had the Kerry Thornley bowl cut with the Abraham Lincoln beard.  Now's the time to cast the superficial aside and get down to the rusty brass tacks.

I propose we start a REAL network of Discordians... 

That's why I renamed BIP to TDN.  I want to bring others into the fold to help us.  To bring them here and to help us produce material.  Yeah, I know we've done BIP and some other tings but with more we can do more.  Doesn't that sound reasonable? 

Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: East Coast Hustle on October 20, 2006, 04:19:52 PM
sure does.

hey, I know this discordian who lives down in AUburn! maybe we can get him to do some writing for us.

Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on October 20, 2006, 04:21:41 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on October 20, 2006, 04:19:52 PM
sure does.

hey, I know this discordian who lives down in AUburn! maybe we can get him to do some writing for us.



yeah, okay, I get the hint.   :-D  :wink:
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on October 23, 2006, 02:19:46 PM
My gut reaction is that united discord is a contradiction in terms. A million individuals doing their own stupid random shit will eventually gnaw the system away to the point of collapse whereas if we all united and started marching or something the feds would have a huge fucking target to aim their bullets at. Unity is their law, it's their weakness. I say exploit that weakness not adopt it. If everybody here successfully fucked with one new head per week and those newly fertilised minds, in turn, did the same we'd have a planet of drooling idiots in fkin no time. :evil:
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jasper on October 23, 2006, 11:53:26 PM
QuoteMy gut reaction is that united discord is a contradiction in terms.

Or at the very worst a simple farce.
Quote
A million individuals doing their own stupid random shit will eventually gnaw the system away to the point of collapse whereas if we all united and started marching or something the feds would have a huge fucking target to aim their bullets at.

There are not a million discordians, and even then, it'd be more than 6000 to 1.  If we united, however it would go far worse for us.

QuoteUnity is their law, it's their weakness.
Is that why they're winning?  Jesus Fuck, I wonder what thier strength is- with weaknesses like that.

QuoteI say exploit that weakness not adopt it. If everybody here successfully fucked with one new head per week and those newly fertilised minds, in turn, did the same we'd have a planet of drooling idiots in fkin no time.

Or a world full of people who have newly discovered how to be assholes.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on October 24, 2006, 12:00:21 AM
Who says they're winning. The way I see it there's them and me and I aint been beat. If everyone was as cool as me I wouldn't be so cool. Fuck the monkeys they're here for my amusement. Yeah I know - philanthropic to a fault.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: lovernotafighter on October 24, 2006, 12:03:05 AM
I'm definately opposed to discordian unity, or even trying to recruit people to discordianism as a concept. There loads of people out there doing their own mindfucks often without even knowing it. I've been doing since before I discovered discordianism on the net around 2000 or so.

Let's not put people off by trying to convince they are part of a movement, lets just encourage and perpatrate mind fucks where we can, nasty and nice on everyone even each other. It's all good.

Don't get me wrong, build unity if you want (or at least try) but for me it is the wrong path.

That doesnt mean we can't cooperate on projects, and share stories and advice and so on.

Solidarity amid Chaos!

Or something...
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 24, 2006, 01:41:46 AM
Quote from: SillyCybin on October 24, 2006, 12:00:21 AM
Who says they're winning.

Look around you, primate.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 24, 2006, 01:42:33 AM
Quote from: lovernotafighter on October 24, 2006, 12:03:05 AM
I'm definately opposed to discordian unity, or even trying to recruit people to discordianism as a concept.

Well, yeah, we can't run around letting people in on our little joke, can we?
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Jasper on October 24, 2006, 01:46:22 AM
I'm all for prosetylizing, which is meant mainly to entertain first and recruit second or fifth or whatever.

But a network where all internet discordians can be found by would just make it easy.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: lovernotafighter on October 24, 2006, 10:14:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 24, 2006, 01:42:33 AM


Well, yeah, we can't run around letting people in on our little joke, can we?

We should be asking others to let us in on their jokes.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 25, 2006, 01:51:06 AM
Quote from: lovernotafighter on October 24, 2006, 10:14:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 24, 2006, 01:42:33 AM


Well, yeah, we can't run around letting people in on our little joke, can we?

We should be asking others to let us in on their jokes.

Why the hell should they? 
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: lovernotafighter on October 25, 2006, 10:12:12 AM
For bigger belly lols
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Cain on October 25, 2006, 12:56:57 PM
Discordianism does need more interconnection.  Not centralization, communication.  With communication and transfer of ideas, testing of new methods etc well, look at my last rant.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: East Coast Hustle on October 25, 2006, 01:25:44 PM
Open Source Discordianism FTW.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: lovernotafighter on October 25, 2006, 05:32:09 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on October 25, 2006, 01:25:44 PM
Open Source Discordianism FTW.

I like the sound of that.

Accessible esotericism
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Voodoo Chile on October 31, 2006, 02:54:32 AM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on October 25, 2006, 01:25:44 PM
Open Source Discordianism FTW.

Is this why the ddate command is found in most releases of Linux? Open source is the future of Discordianism?
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on October 31, 2006, 08:14:39 AM
Nobody uses Linux.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on October 31, 2006, 08:39:30 AM
Name one person who doesn't and I'll believe you.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on October 31, 2006, 08:50:21 AM
I don't use Linux.  Therefore, nobody does.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on October 31, 2006, 08:50:58 AM
Actually, I do know two people who use Linux and they were both sociology nerds.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Cain on October 31, 2006, 09:53:41 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on October 31, 2006, 08:50:58 AM
Actually, I do know two people who use Linux and they were both nerds.

All that needs to be said.  Windows doesn't crash and the free programs and games work on it quite well.  So why bother?
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Cain on October 31, 2006, 09:54:57 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Chile on October 31, 2006, 02:54:32 AM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on October 25, 2006, 01:25:44 PM
Open Source Discordianism FTW.

Is this why the ddate command is found in most releases of Linux? Open source is the future of Discordianism?

Well, that and I adapted a radically decentralized version of activist Discordianism that is based on models that have worked in online and offline communities previously.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on October 31, 2006, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Cain on October 31, 2006, 09:54:57 AMWell, that and I adapted a radically decentralized version of activist Discordianism that is based on models that have worked in online and offline communities previously.

That doesn't mean anything right? It's just a random collection of words designed to fuck with my head.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Cain on October 31, 2006, 10:31:22 AM
Quote from: SillyCybin on October 31, 2006, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Cain on October 31, 2006, 09:54:57 AMWell, that and I adapted a radically decentralized version of activist Discordianism that is based on models that have worked in online and offline communities previously.

That doesn't mean anything right? It's just a random collection of words designed to fuck with my head.

No.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: East Coast Hustle on October 31, 2006, 12:30:32 PM
not even close.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Cramulus on July 18, 2007, 12:31:03 AM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 17, 2006, 03:19:57 PM
Discordians, Subgenii, undecideds, lend me your ear.....

Election day cometh upon us soon.  Are you happy with the direction of your country?  Are you happy with the size of your bank account?  Are you happy with the size of your manhood/womanhood?  Have you stopped reading?  If you answered the first 3 but not the last one then you best keep moving, we don't want you.

How can we weirdos, asshats, miscreants really affect our society?  We aren't going to do it by simple housekeeping.  We need to unite.  But, we need to unite and minimize the bloodletting.  I said minimize, not eliminate, where would the fun be in that? 

Long has society lead us astray.  Long has it told us where we should and should not go.  Long has it told us what to eat and what not to eat.  Meanwhile, we Discordians have been in our little hovels spread across the globe.  We talk big talk about fucking up the system.  About burning it to the ground.  About skull fucking the Pinkos and The Normals.  But how effective can we really be if we all stick apart and stick forks in each others eyes?

That's right, we can't.  They will never take us seriously anyway.  It should never be the goal.  We aren't going to change society.  We aren't going to save the world.  We aren't going to make the Conservatives OR the Liberals accept us.  The Conservatives want to burn us at the stake.  The Liberals don't like us because we don't give them any money.  The Libertarians don't like us because we steal their pot.  The Greens don't like us because we eat meat and don't recycle our soda cans.  But more importantly, THOSE Discordians over there don't like us because we aren't THEIR kind of Discordians.

This is what defeats us EVERY SINGLE TIME.  We lose before we even begin.  The second coming becomes the third becomes the fourth becomes an empty fifth.  Can we break this viscous cycle?

I don't know.  But I'd sure as hell like to try.  What if each of us found just three Discordians, elsewhere on the infotarded superdriveway and convinced them to join our effort.  That's right, to join our effort.  Not our clique, not our all boys/girls club, not our cabal.  Bring them here with a purpose.  They've read the book, they're heard ALL of the jokes, they've had the Kerry Thornley bowl cut with the Abraham Lincoln beard.  Now's the time to cast the superficial aside and get down to the rusty brass tacks.

I propose we start a REAL network of Discordians.  Maybe we won't all hang out here, maybe we won't all hang out there, but that SHOULD NOT BE THE POINT.  If we truly wish to get the word out we need to get the lead out.  Let us not dwell on who is real and who isn't.  Let us focus, instead, on who will get real and who will not.  Who will bring the noise AND the funk, not just the noise. 

We all have busy lives in the real world.  We don't have time to dick around with popularity contests and who is going to like who.  It is time to start showing those who wish to see that they don't have to play the same old game.  There are more options than what they see on the teevee and on their ballots.  This is our chance to actually reach people.  There are people who are beginning to see that everything is fucked.  That the options they are given are all opt-outs from freedom.  So, let us get the act together, forget about OUR politics and work on defecating on THEIRS. 

Free at The Last, Free at The Last, by holy-fucking-hell, we can be Free at The Last, and so can they........

bumped for quality
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on July 18, 2007, 02:16:32 PM
Heh, I remember this.  This was when I decided to rename the BIP Boards "The Discordian Network", I even built a website for it.  And then it went splodey.  I still think this is a viable idea.  But it certainly would take a lot of effort to rally more Discordian cats who are interested in contributing some ideas. 
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: LHX on July 18, 2007, 03:17:29 PM
for the record - i was always a big supporter of the term 'The Discordian Network'


seeing as it is a network of people who have a common thread of knowing each other thru reasons involving discordianism
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Darth Cupcake on July 18, 2007, 03:32:21 PM
Discordia is not something you just dump things on! It is not a truck!

It is a series of tubes network!

:D

But in all seriousness, I do like the term The Discordian Network. It sounds like something out of a spy movie. Like you land in some strange town, say in Scotland, and you are like, "What now? I know, I'll just tap into the Discordian Network!" Trolls are just bad hackers of the network!
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: LMNO on July 18, 2007, 03:37:12 PM
All praise be unto Cain, for it is He who came up with the term.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: hooplala on July 18, 2007, 03:45:12 PM
We're not calling ourselves "Pervs Unlimited" anymore?

:sad:
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: LMNO on July 18, 2007, 03:45:51 PM
We're saving that for the "inner teachings".
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Darth Cupcake on July 18, 2007, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: Baron von Hoopla on July 18, 2007, 03:45:12 PM
We're not calling ourselves "Pervs Unlimited" anymore?

:sad:

That's the subtitle.

"The Discordian Network: Pervs Unlimited."

Or perhaps "The Discordian Network: A Whole Bunch of Pervs and Jerks."
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Rev. St. Syn, KSC (Ret.) on July 18, 2007, 03:55:28 PM
I prefer the term "asshat," thank you. 8)
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Darth Cupcake on July 18, 2007, 04:08:10 PM
THIS FORUM IS A HAT RACK

"The Discordian Network Hat Rack: We Have All Kinds of Asshats."
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Rev. St. Syn, KSC (Ret.) on July 18, 2007, 04:14:58 PM
:D

Liking that.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on July 18, 2007, 05:18:46 PM
Politics will eat itself.

My mission is to laugh at it while it's being sick all over its feet.

I'm more than capable of accomplishing this mission solo.

I don't even have to leave the house.

I laugh at "Revolutionaries" just as hard.

The fact that they fight for what they believe is right merely means they have a belief and that is laughable in and of itself.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on July 18, 2007, 06:00:26 PM
I often wonder about such a concept... and yet, I am not convinced. Children of Eris, seem to me, far more useful as the unknown variable, rather than a predictable group of activists.  I have yet to see any revolutionary group maintain its original intent beyond a single generation (or a successful revolution). I think about the Discordian seasons and the possible message hidden within.

Chaos -> Discord -> Confusion -> Bureaucracy -> Aftermath ->Chaos

In Chaos,  each person acts on their own... perhaps with a Cabal/small family unit/etc, perhaps as an individual, but in this state, each person is independent or voluntarily associated. A sort of anarchy.

In Discord, the persons or the Cabal or the family, bands with others in order to achieve a goal. However, there exists discord between these once independent persons. A sort of Tribal system.

This leads to Confusion, a state where everyone wants to accomplish something, but they debate everything and end up accomplishing little. To combat this, someone says "Well, we have to get organized and pick a leader"...

Which brings us to the birth of Bureaucracy... that state where nothing gets accomplished except moving pieces of paper around, signing forms, going to committee meetings and bitching about the bureaucracy.

Eventually, mosbunal of the members long for the time when things weren't so crappy... they abandon the organization and in this Aftermath, return to Chaos.

----------------------------

Of course, this could all be false. However, it does tend to map decently to many organizations. Look at some of the Internet start-ups, look at past "Discordian Organizations", look at whatever corporation you might work for, look at your government....

I question the wisdom of handing Freedom to the masses, not because I'm elitist, but rather because I don't think you can give freedom to people (particularly not freedom of their own damn mind). Thomas Jefferson told Lafayette in a letter that he should perhaps not expect his fellow countrymen to embrace full blown democracy immediately after the revolution. In his mind the revolution in America happened "in the minds of the people" ten years before anyone fired a shot. The people (according to TJ) chose freedom, then fought for freedom. In France, he argued to his friend the Marquis,  it was not the people who chose revolution... rather revolution happened and they were handed "freedom" and "democracy"... which they quickly threw away and tried to run back toward the monarchy.

Look at the Middle East right now. America handed "freedom and democracy" to Iraq (in some sense). Yet, they are completely unable to manage even the most basic functions of government. No matter one's opinion on the US' role, the example holds. Even those that voted with their ever infamous ink-smudged thumbs, voted for parties that were divisive, not cohesive. The Shia voted for Shia, the Sunni voted for Sunni and the Kurds, voted for Kurds. Look at Palestine, they were given the "freedom" to vote, to choose what they wanted... and they chose the less tolerant, more dogmatic, more controlling of their options.

Freedom must be earned, it must be fought for, it must be a paradigm shift in the minds of individuals... then and only then can freedom be held as valuable to the individual.

I think, in my opinion, that we Discordians may be much better at encouraging the necessary shifts in the minds of individuals, than changing our society as an entity. When it comes to shifting minds, individuals and small cabals seem more effective, to me, than a lumbering bureaucracy of thousands or hundreds of people hashing out plans on an Internet website.

The OP speaks of uniting, but upon what 'platform' would we unite? The most successful revolutions, it seems to me, are ones that are decentralized, with no central control or head. However, any revolution is made up of two sorts of people. Those who have a vision and those that follow like sheep. If we want to rid ourselves of the sheep... an organization seems like a bad start, to me.

To end, I think I'd like to crib the OP's ending:

Free at The Last, Free at The Last, by holy-fucking-hell, we can be Free at The Last, and so can they........

Free at The Last, Free at The Last, by holy-fucking-hell, I am Free at The Last, and so too are you, if you choose to be.



Like what you like, Enjoy what you enjoy...
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: LMNO on July 18, 2007, 08:05:32 PM
Rat, I think you have a point.

Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on July 18, 2007, 08:13:36 PM
Rat has a point, yes.

However, he also is reading this out of context. 

This was written during a time when we were talking about getting more people involved in our creative process.  This was back when pd.com didn't have a BIP subforum and we were meeting and discussing these ideas at a little hole in the web somewhere else.  We were fertilizing some of these ideas but we wanted to do something to get them beyond the digital walls we were meeting within at the time.

The point wasn't to unite Discordians to make a mass influence on society.  The point was to reach out to other Discordians and get some fresh ideas and viewpoints.  To get more Chef's stirring the pot. 

I don't think a little less sticking apart is a bad thing. 
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: LMNO on July 18, 2007, 08:14:11 PM
RWHN has a point.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on July 18, 2007, 08:29:42 PM
Shall we flip a coin?  I call Tails!
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on July 18, 2007, 10:32:50 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on July 18, 2007, 08:13:36 PM
Rat has a point, yes.

However, he also is reading this out of context. 

This was written during a time when we were talking about getting more people involved in our creative process.  This was back when pd.com didn't have a BIP subforum and we were meeting and discussing these ideas at a little hole in the web somewhere else.  We were fertilizing some of these ideas but we wanted to do something to get them beyond the digital walls we were meeting within at the time.

The point wasn't to unite Discordians to make a mass influence on society.  The point was to reach out to other Discordians and get some fresh ideas and viewpoints.  To get more Chef's stirring the pot. 

I don't think a little less sticking apart is a bad thing. 

Ah, then that's different ;-)

I think a Discordian Resource System would be a fine goal for a site like PD.com. More Discordians may mean more ideas, more chaos, more confusion... all things I like and approve of.

Sorry if I misinterpreted the OP.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on July 19, 2007, 03:31:45 PM
No problem. 
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Payne on July 19, 2007, 03:34:12 PM
RWHN wins this round on a judges decision.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on July 19, 2007, 03:36:45 PM
Hooray!  We're doomed. 
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Payne on August 27, 2008, 11:56:46 PM
BUMP, for it is awesome, and elections are coming around again too.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on August 28, 2008, 01:33:09 AM
Cool. Are we done hating on the idea of Discordians uniting for a few common goals every once in a while, on the assumption that Discordianism has a built-in catalyst for the destruction of tyrannical/extremist systems within it?
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: LMNO on August 28, 2008, 01:26:13 PM
Nope.


There will always be those who have a visceral reaction to the concept of organization.


And others are just too lazy.
Title: Re: I have a Nightmare.....
Post by: AFK on August 28, 2008, 01:37:47 PM
I think the Etc., Discordia project is a step in the right direction.  And I've seen where the GASM stuff has reached people outside of our sphere as well.  But yeah, there will always be some resistance to organization and unity.  And unfortunately, I seem to be in the category of lazy lately.