RAEP IS GOOD MAJIK

[BabylonHoruv]

I agree with Badbeast, raping the vanquished is purely monkey behaviour. The leaders of any ill-disciplined conscript force know it's going to happen whether they want it to or not so they have two choices - court martial half their army or tart it up with some symbolic bullshit and condone it.

I THINK WE

         all agree with that point (?) - however, the focus i'm drawing attention to is that rape itself is a magical practice not a result of warfare.

So what about singular, non warfare type rape? If the rape itself is a magical act, what is the (supposed) result of the magic?

That's got to depend on the circumstances surrounding the rape.  Consensual sex is a common magical component as well, and while it has certain aspects associated with it (fertility, connection, etc) what the intended results of a specific act of magical sex are vary greatly.

In both the Serbian and African cases the rape seems to be tied to growing a nation and military victory and conquest.

[BadBeast]

I agree with Badbeast, raping the vanquished is purely monkey behaviour. The leaders of any ill-disciplined conscript force know it's going to happen whether they want it to or not so they have two choices - court martial half their army or tart it up with some symbolic bullshit and condone it.

I THINK WE

          all agree with that point (?) - however, the focus i'm drawing attention to is that rape itself is a magical practice not a result of warfare.

So what about singular, non warfare type rape? If the rape itself is a magical act, what is the (supposed) result of the magic?

That's got to depend on the circumstances surrounding the rape.  Consensual sex is a common magical component as well, and while it has certain aspects associated with it (fertility, connection, etc) what the intended results of a specific act of magical sex are vary greatly.

In both the Serbian and African cases the rape seems to be tied to growing a nation and military victory and conquest.

Which ties in with the biological imperative that seems to be triggered whenever an invading Army is concerned.

[E.O.T.]

I agree with Badbeast, raping the vanquished is purely monkey behaviour. The leaders of any ill-disciplined conscript force know it's going to happen whether they want it to or not so they have two choices - court martial half their army or tart it up with some symbolic bullshit and condone it.

I THINK WE

         all agree with that point (?) - however, the focus i'm drawing attention to is that rape itself is a magical practice not a result of warfare.

So what about singular, non warfare type rape? If the rape itself is a magical act, what is the (supposed) result of the magic?

That's got to depend on the circumstances surrounding the rape.  Consensual sex is a common magical component as well, and while it has certain aspects associated with it (fertility, connection, etc) what the intended results of a specific act of magical sex are vary greatly.

In both the Serbian and African cases the rape seems to be tied to growing a nation and military victory and conquest.

OK

         i'm interested, but please provide access to the serbian rape magic material you're talking about.

[E.O.T.]

I agree with Badbeast, raping the vanquished is purely monkey behaviour. The leaders of any ill-disciplined conscript force know it's going to happen whether they want it to or not so they have two choices - court martial half their army or tart it up with some symbolic bullshit and condone it.

I THINK WE

          all agree with that point (?) - however, the focus i'm drawing attention to is that rape itself is a magical practice not a result of warfare.

So what about singular, non warfare type rape? If the rape itself is a magical act, what is the (supposed) result of the magic?

That's got to depend on the circumstances surrounding the rape.  Consensual sex is a common magical component as well, and while it has certain aspects associated with it (fertility, connection, etc) what the intended results of a specific act of magical sex are vary greatly.

In both the Serbian and African cases the rape seems to be tied to growing a nation and military victory and conquest.

Which ties in with the biological imperative that seems to be triggered whenever an invading Army is concerned.

WHICH

          is still differentiated by rape being a magical act. or at least a significant part of a magical process.

[Luna]

I agree with Badbeast, raping the vanquished is purely monkey behaviour. The leaders of any ill-disciplined conscript force know it's going to happen whether they want it to or not so they have two choices - court martial half their army or tart it up with some symbolic bullshit and condone it.

I THINK WE

         all agree with that point (?) - however, the focus i'm drawing attention to is that rape itself is a magical practice not a result of warfare.

No, it's not.  It's a justification.  It's a way for those in charge to convince these men who have been in their control since they were kids to perform acts that they know aren't right.  (See the one who said that if he caught someone raping his sister, he wouldn't stand for it.)  "It's okay, it's magic" is pretty much the same as "it's okay to throw rocks at her, God says you should."

[P3nT4gR4m]

No, it's not.  It's a justification.  It's a way for those in charge to convince these men who have been in their control since they were kids to perform acts that they know aren't right.  (See the one who said that if he caught someone raping his sister, he wouldn't stand for it.)  "It's okay, it's magic" is pretty much the same as "it's okay to throw rocks at her, God says you should."

Nail on head! It's not real magic (are we actually having this conversation, ffs?) It's filling stoopid heads full of stoopid bullshit so they'll kill people for you. The magic component doesn't have any effect whatsoever. It's just like non rape-based magic in that respect.

[Faust]

We are in full danger of starting off the magic thread cycle. From this point on everyone please wear a hard hat and avoid cycling into that monster of a thread.

[LMNO]

(using EOT speak)



OKAY

          We understand that magic is bullshit

AND

          That rape is a monkey-war-power act of violence

PLUS

          The objective ovservance of using Magic as an excuse for Rape is justification (and bullshit)

BUT

          The point here (I think) is to look deeper into the psychological constructs that make such (to us) obvious irrational explanations regarding rape and magic apparently culturally accepted by a large amount of Congolese.  Saying, "its a tactic to get them to do bad things" is true, but it doesn't speak to the main question regarding the culture, mindset and history taking place here.

[P3nT4gR4m]

The culture and mindset we're dealing with is based around taking 11-12 year old kids, sticking a gun in their hands and teaching them how to make people dead with it. It's not all innocent shooting, tho, maiming and torture (including the raeping) is all part of their playtime. This "culture" as you call it is seven shades of fucked (even by western standards) So when a fifteen year old kid who's been sending bullets toward his classmates for a few years and hacking off limbs with machetes, turns around and tells me that sticking his dick in some half dead chick he finds lying on the battlefield is powerful voodoo, forgive me for not appearing the least bit shocked or surprised.

[Luna]

Most cultures have some acceptance of "magical thinking."  I can't even tell you how often my grandmother told me that if I pray hard enough for something, God will answer.  I'd be hard pressed to find a culture that did NOT have a degree of this kind of thing.  This is an extreme.

[hooplala]

Personally, I want to know a WHOLE lot more about this "potion" they kept referring to.

Who made it?  What did they claim it would do exactly?

[BadBeast]

Personally, I want to know a WHOLE lot more about this "potion" they kept referring to.

Who made it?  What did they claim it would do exactly?

I know that a lot of African Armys (and western ones too) use amphetamines, (usually Meth as it's easiest to make)  quat, alcohol and cannabis, and to a superstitious people with little education, and even less knowledge of pharmacology, under a manipulative Warlord, Meth would seem like Superman juice. Added to some ritualistic pre-battle communal 'taking of the sacrament', and a good old sing-song, they must be worse than tooled up Millwall fans, before an away match at Cardiff. Add AK47s, and the promise of a chance to dip their wicks if they win the day, and it's just asking for trouble. Especially if the Spirits are on their side. (Which they invariably are) These people will go into War with a "magic" Nike shirt on that makes them bulletproof, bombproof and invisible. I could make up a potion like that in the next couple of hours (If I went "shopping") in my kitchen if I had a mind to.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This thread makes me wish SMF had an "ignore thread" feature.

[Triple Zero]

Rape is extremely common in conquering Armies, not just in Africa, but Europe and America too. In the first Gulf War, there were many reports of American Soldiers raping women after the fall of Basra. In WWII, one of the reasons the Germans were so quick to surrender to British and American troops, was because they had spent the last year raping their way across Eastern Europe, and they knew they wouldn't get the chance to surrender to the Russians, who had driven them back towards Berlin, because of the atrocities committed.
But the thing is, those men who rape during wartime are not monsters, they're normal, family men who find themselves in the middle of a horrible war. Many of them have difficulty accepting what they've had done, after being demobbed, and while I'm not using this as any kind of justification, it does seem that victory in War, produces some kind of biological imperative in the male of the species, to maximise the spread of his seed. In purely evolutionary terms, these Wartime scenarios are an excellent opportunity for the spreading of the more robust, dominant, genetic strains, which biologically, is good for the species.   As for the "Magic potion" element, people will justify their actions with whatever paradigm is most expedient. In WWII, German Soldiers were led to believe the the Slavic races were "less than human" so it didn't matter. The Russian Army saw it  as one of the spoils of War, and a Soldiers right.  I know it sounds pretty lame, in the cold light of day, but we are talking about Wartime, which tends to throw the rulebook for conventional behavior right out the window.

NO, HONEY

          you need to read the op and responses. this is about magic potion rape, not monkey war.

I read the OP, watched the video, and read the 'magic potion rape' thing as another of the justification mechanisms for the triggered 'rape' behavioral pattern exhibited in Armies.
On reflection, and after watching the freeman vid, I can see that the 'magic potion' rape scenario can also be applied in the Nazi Army's rapefest of eastern Europe, with Meth as the magic potion.
Even the Gulf War/Basra instances could be viewed like this if you take the Drugs given to US (esp) Troops that resulted in Gulf War Syndrome' as being the 'magic potion'.   

IT'S

         the belief system not drug abuse i'm drawing focus to. there's no mention of drugs in the video.

this is kind of contradictory... I'm not following what you're trying to get at, here.

first Badbeast explains himself in terms of belief systems and paradigms, but then you say you don't want to talk about "monkey war" but "magic potion rape".

then Badbeast explains the same thing in terms of magic potions, and suddenly you do a 180 and tell him you want to focus on belief systems, not the drugs.

seems to me like you don't really mind what perspective is taken, as long as it contrasts what happens/happened in the Congo with wars in the rest of the world and human history?

[LMNO]

I think he's trying to talk about the artificial map in their heads, not the actual territory.

That is, the physical act of rape and the physical use of drugs is what is actually happening in the real world.

But in their heads, there's some sort of bizarre (to us) world of magic potions and spell casting.  And that's what he wants to find out about.

I think.


EOT, let me know if I'm off base.