Nice country you have there...shame if anything were to happen to it...

[Cain]

Wow, blatant thuggery by the UK and Netherlands on this one:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2019f466-faea-11de-94d8-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1

Parliament narrowly approved the repayment plan last week after months of acrimonious debate but Mr Grimsson refused to ratify it amid overwhelming public opposition to a deal that critics say is unfair and unaffordable.

Britain and the Netherlands condemned his intervention and issued thinly veiled threats that collapse of the deal would jeopardise Iceland's bid to join the European Union and its $10bn economic rescue programme led by the International Monetary Fund.

Fitch, the credit ratings agency, downgraded Iceland's main sovereign rating to "junk" status in response and Standard & Poor's said it could follow suit.

Never mind every citizen of Iceland is going to have to pay off $17,352, in the middle of an economic collapse, to afford this.  Oh no.  Nor that Iceland has already paid back what it is legally required to.  And more importantly, those Icelandic banks were so unregulated they made the (essentially unregulated) City of London banks look like Soviet bureacracies by comparison.  Which means they were doing some deeply dubious shit there, highly risky stuff where they had to know there was a risk they could lose money.  Cant cheat an honest man and all that.  Oh, and the hilarity of holding an entire country responsible for the actions of some LLCs.

This is utterly disgusting.  We are threatening to turn Iceland into a third world country to satisfy the wounded prides and pockets of our own financial overlords.  This and nothing more.

[Elder Iptuous]

so the threat is that they don't get entangled in IMF debt?
seems like a no brainer to me...  of course, the decided they want to join the EU, and i wouldn't do that, so i'm not really looking at things the same way they are, i guess...

They should have some counter threat at the ready that involves some Bjork of Mass Destruction, or something...

I dunno about the Netherlands, but this attitude is SOP for the UK financial international relations, no?

[Cain]

Yeah, the IMF thing is a mixed blessing, but they really do need some sort of money, the country is in an awful state right now.  Either way, whether they resist or submit to the UK and Netherlands, they're fucked.

And yes, this is pretty standard, unfortunately.  Still, looks like we're going to economically destroy a country for no good reason at all. Also take into account that the Icelanders humiliated Britain in the "Cod wars", a slight that was never forgiven.  Shock the country into depression, and then buy up the rights to their fishing zones on the cheap, keep the bankers happy and everyone wins, except the Icelandic citizens, and fuck them.

This is especially cruel, even by our low current standards.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah, the IMF thing is a mixed blessing, but they really do need some sort of money, the country is in an awful state right now.  Either way, whether they resist or submit to the UK and Netherlands, they're fucked.

And yes, this is pretty standard, unfortunately.  Still, looks like we're going to economically destroy a country for no good reason at all. Also take into account that the Icelanders humiliated Britain in the "Cod wars", a slight that was never forgiven.  Shock the country into depression, and then buy up the rights to their fishing zones on the cheap, keep the bankers happy and everyone wins, except the Icelandic citizens, and fuck them.

This is especially cruel, even by our low current standards.

This is why I find it funny that most Americans think of Britain as having mellowed in its old age.

It just got smarter.

[Cain]

Yep, we let you do most of the heavy lifting, and reaped the rewards.

Of course, we then forgot that was the plan, so your eventual deathspiral will probably take us out as well.  No doubt there will be a downside to this, though.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yep, we let you do most of the heavy lifting, and reaped the rewards.

Of course, we then forgot that was the plan, so your eventual deathspiral will probably take us out as well.  No doubt there will be a downside to this, though.

Bosh.  England has survived far worse than this. 

[Cain]

Maybe.  But we pissed off France and Germany (well, more accurately, the Tories did.  Plus both now seem wise to the UK's strategy of expanding the EU without integrating it - acting as America's proxy to prevent the rise of a European superpower), who I would consider the first candidates to turn to for continued international relevance.  Our Navy is shit, our army is incompetent and our air force specialize in killing children by dropping crates of propaganda on them.  We spend all our money on pointless legacy items, like the Trident submarines, our children grow up illiterate, innumerate, obese and linguistically incapable by most world standards, we spend more than we save and our population is irrelevant when compared to places like China, India, America or the rest of the EU.  When the Scots leave they'll take half the North Sea oil with them, and if the Falkland Islanders have any sense they'll consider doing the same.

The two strengths we did have, our economy and the Commonwealth, have been undermined for 30+ years now.  Stick a fork in this country, its done.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Maybe.  But we pissed off France and Germany (well, more accurately, the Tories did.  Plus both now seem wise to the UK's strategy of expanding the EU without integrating it - acting as America's proxy to prevent the rise of a European superpower), who I would consider the first candidates to turn to for continued international relevance.  Our Navy is shit, our army is incompetent and our air force specialize in killing children by dropping crates of propaganda on them.  We spend all our money on pointless legacy items, like the Trident submarines, our children grow up illiterate, innumerate, obese and linguistically incapable by most world standards, we spend more than we save and our population is irrelevant when compared to places like China, India, America or the rest of the EU.  When the Scots leave they'll take half the North Sea oil with them, and if the Falkland Islanders have any sense they'll consider doing the same.

The two strengths we did have, our economy and the Commonwealth, have been undermined for 30+ years now.  Stick a fork in this country, its done.

And again, Britain has dealt with worse.  Look, all you have to do is burn Cherbourg, Caen, and a few hamlets, then get the French to attack you in the rain.  Easy.

Also, while Britain may have some serious problems, they pale in comparison to what the Chinese (and by extension the Russians) are facing.  The whole world is about 20 years overdue for a massive shitfest - which you know is coming - and we're in the economic/cultural slump that always precedes these things.

[Elder Iptuous]

true!
you can positively taste it in the air!
the tension is viscous and leaves an oily film in your nostrils...

this shitfest is gonna be a real thing..

[Cain]

Yeah, but the Russians and the Chinese are used to pain and suffering on massive levels.  This country is run by a bunch of public school boys who couldn't plot their way out of a wet paper bag and think the world should submit because of their innate class and race superiority (check out George Osbourne and Michael Gove, for prime examples).  At least some of the Labour Party actually made their way through the system based on personal guile, but those guys are going to be out of power for at least another decade. 

Personally, I'm going to enjoy watching the Russians making this country their bitch, with German and French approval.  Its what I'd do, in their position.

And seriously, if this country is reduced to pulling a school bully routine on somewhere like Iceland, thats a sign of how bad things have already gotten.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah, but the Russians and the Chinese are used to pain and suffering on massive levels.  This country is run by a bunch of public school boys who couldn't plot their way out of a wet paper bag and think the world should submit because of their innate class and race superiority (check out George Osbourne and Michael Gove, for prime examples).  At least some of the Labour Party actually made their way through the system based on personal guile, but those guys are going to be out of power for at least another decade. 

Personally, I'm going to enjoy watching the Russians making this country their bitch, with German and French approval.  Its what I'd do, in their position.

And seriously, if this country is reduced to pulling a school bully routine on somewhere like Iceland, thats a sign of how bad things have already gotten.

1.  Name a single war or similar crisis in which Britain didn't go into with idiots running the show.  Remember Mountbatten?  If he hadn't had a chance to fail himself out of a job at Dieppe, he'd have lost D-Day for the allies.

2.  China isn't just going into hard times, they're about to cease existing as a nation if they don't do something.  Their population levels are turning their entire arable sector into desert, and nobody wants their industrial products anymore (I have instituted a no-Chinese-parts/steel policy at the plant, and everyone in my field that I know has done the same thing).  My guess is, they'll try to grab Siberia and parts of SE Asia.  That's when the fun starts.

[Triple Zero]

Just talked this over with my gf, I had to read up on the story because the bits I sniffed from the news gave me the impression that Iceland didn't want to pay back that $10bln economic rescue plan, and if you borrow money you gotta pay it back, a deal's a deal right?

But that is complete nonsense.

So I checked the article and read it somewhat better and let me get this straight now. So Iceland is (or was) going to get $10bln economic rescue plan. But the Icelandi Banki collapsed and then lots of people who had money there in NL and UK lost that money. And then NL and UK covered that money for their citizens (NL probably up to a maximum amount of EU 100,000 per account cause that's what they did when the Dutch DSB bank crashed last year). And now NL and UK want Iceland to pay them the money they covered? Am I right so far?
And then you say Iceland already paid what it is legally required to do, so it already made some partial payment to the governments to offset what they covered for their citizens who lost money in the Iceland Bank, except UK and NL simply want more than that?
And in order to force Iceland to pay up they are threatening to not give Iceland this $10bln economic rescue package anymore and make it hard for them to join the EU (but did Iceland actually want to join? I thought they didnt?)

[Cain]

1.  Name a single war or similar crisis in which Britain didn't go into with idiots running the show.  Remember Mountbatten?  If he hadn't had a chance to fail himself out of a job at Dieppe, he'd have lost D-Day for the allies.

2.  China isn't just going into hard times, they're about to cease existing as a nation if they don't do something.  Their population levels are turning their entire arable sector into desert, and nobody wants their industrial products anymore (I have instituted a no-Chinese-parts/steel policy at the plant, and everyone in my field that I know has done the same thing).  My guess is, they'll try to grab Siberia and parts of SE Asia.  That's when the fun starts.

True.  These guys are pretty special though.  I mean, one of them is promoting Steiner schools.  Yes, they really are that stupid.

China does have a plan, actually.  Using the Political Criminal Networks that have proliferated in places like Fuijan province, the "snakeheads", acting with complete impunity, are shipping masses of Chinese workers overseas.  It's undercutting the authority of Beijing and lining the pockets of provincal criminals, but it is cutting down on both pollution and riots.  And causing vast sums of money to be sent back to China, and spent by families there.  They're also securing trade with countries no-one else will trade with (like Burma).  It might not be enough, but I cannot dismiss them just yet.

Just talked this over with my gf, I had to read up on the story because the bits I sniffed from the news gave me the impression that Iceland didn't want to pay back that $10bln economic rescue plan, and if you borrow money you gotta pay it back, a deal's a deal right?

But that is complete nonsense.

So I checked the article and read it somewhat better and let me get this straight now. So Iceland is (or was) going to get $10bln economic rescue plan. But the Icelandi Banki collapsed and then lots of people who had money there in NL and UK lost that money. And then NL and UK covered that money for their citizens (NL probably up to a maximum amount of EU 100,000 per account cause that's what they did when the Dutch DSB bank crashed last year). And now NL and UK want Iceland to pay them the money they covered? Am I right so far?
And then you say Iceland already paid what it is legally required to do, so it already made some partial payment to the governments to offset what they covered for their citizens who lost money in the Iceland Bank, except UK and NL simply want more than that?
And in order to force Iceland to pay up they are threatening to not give Iceland this $10bln economic rescue package anymore and make it hard for them to join the EU (but did Iceland actually want to join? I thought they didnt?)

Basically, under EU law, Iceland only has to pay back 20,000 Euros to each investor.  And this has passed the Parliament without a problem, despite the fact that these payments equal the entire yearly export earnings of Iceland (and the UK and Netherlands imposed a punitive 5.5% interest rate on top of those payments too).

But investors want the rest back as well, yes.  The thing is, UK banks were the ones who lobbied for Icelandic banks to be given licences to operate in the EU, against the advice of the EU. This is because they wanted them set up with virtually no regulations, so they could do things which would be considered illegal even in the highly deregulated London financial markets.  They then went on to do these incredibly risky transactions, whatever they were, and lost their money.  And yes, if Iceland doesn't pay up, our respective countries have threatened it with vetoing its EU entry (which it does want, and was promised last July) and by witholding the IMF cash.

Incidentally, Iceland has an 8% uneployment rate, its economy is predicted to shrink by 8.5% next year, and its crash is considered the worst ever crash in economic history.  But never mind that, bankers gotta get paid, yo!

(Sorry, I'm a little pissed and I apologize if it sounds like its directed at you.  I just finished writing a post about a bunch of UK "leftists" and "liberals" who are cheerleading this on, either because they don't understand the economics, or just like our PM bullying other nations.  God damn I hate people sometimes)

[Elder Iptuous]

you mean Myanmar...

Iceland only barely squeaked by the vote to join EU, right?
it got rejected multiple times before it passed, too?
I'm guessing the folks that didn't want to join the EU are using this as much as possible...
silver lining for them perhaps?

[Cain]

I shall call them Burma until they stop having hilarious hissy fits about being called Burma.  Its for their own good.

I'd have to check now.  Until 2007, they did oppose entry, you're right (probably because their economy was riding high on the whole deregulation thing, and the EU lurves teh regulations).  The crisis, naturally, changed that.

Spain seems to be trying to slow things down, but Sweden is in charge of the process and they're keen on getting the Icelandic in.  So is Malta, which means Greece is too, which means Germany probably is as well (maybe. Ah, intrigue and hidden alliances among the EU are so fun).  No-one seems really opposed...apart from the friends of UK and Dutch investors.