...is that we need drugs...because this fucking country has become such a goddamned prison that drugs are the only thing that makes the fucking pain and humiliation of being utterly, utterly dominated go away.
And we imprison each other.
Every fucking time you judge some body; every time you say "He should be locked up" or "They should STOP those people from getting away with___" about anyone who isn't a murderer or a rapist...anyone who DARES live their own fucking life in a manner in which you do not approve...you are adding a link to the chain.
Every time you beat someone over the head for their "naive" ideals. Every time you laugh and point. Every time you tell someone to "get in line, this is how it's done" or "Just take your shoes and belt off and stop making a fuss," you are feeding the monster.
Fuck you.
It's none of your goddamned business what I eat. It shouldn't matter if it's pills or booze or fucking crack if that's what I want. This is MY fucking world too. Shut up, put the cheesecake fork down, turn off Oprah and mind your own goddamned business, bitch. Or better yet; feed your fucking ASPCA cats and pretend you're a good person because you care more about the fucking animals than you have empathy for your own kind.
Traitor.
Fungus.
The apes would have EATEN you, you iPod whore.
RAH!
While I disagree with some of the specific statements, I clearly understand the feeling behind it.
excellent escalation of anger.
And: could you please not insult the funghi?
some of em are useful, some yummy and fungus also happens to be nickname of mine.
Quote from: navkat on May 06, 2008, 05:29:32 AM
The apes would have EATEN you, you iPod whore.
i disagree with the premise of needing drugs....
think it should probably be replaced with laughter... or hate...
but this line totally makes up for it
:lulz:
I don't know if anything in your rant indicates a NEED for drugs, I still like your basic idea.
I only care when your needs are in direct conflict with my own.
For example, some meth lab explodes, the guy gets taken to the ER, can't pay the bills... who exactly pays for the ambulance, fire trucks, tox cleanup, and all the rest? Oh, yeah. Right.
Then no one wants to live in an area with a meth lab in it, so my property values goes down.
Then a bunch of broke-ass meth heads steal my car.
Victimless crime, my ass.
But then, if it were legal, would all that be happening?
Broke fuck-ups stealing my shit for a hit?
Yeah, probably. Why would making it legal change that?
Quote from: LMNO on May 06, 2008, 03:05:14 PM
Broke fuck-ups stealing my shit for a hit?
Yeah, probably. Why would making it legal change that?
Legality may make it less desirable?
Theres alot of that forbidden fruit crap always going on.
Quote from: LMNO on May 06, 2008, 03:05:14 PM
Broke fuck-ups stealing my shit for a hit?
Yeah, probably. Why would making it legal change that?
If it were legal they wouldn't need to create small dangerous meth labs...
Poor people stealing stuff from people with more isn't just a drug problem.
Then consider the junkies who "legally" OD. Same burden on society as the above.
back to the OP...
though I'm certainly NOT against recreational drug use, I disagree that anyone NEEDS drugs (in the sense that you are talking about).
that said...
fucking awesome rant. more plz!
Quote from: LMNO on May 06, 2008, 03:36:50 PM
Then consider the junkies who "legally" OD. Same burden on society as the above.
Yeah, so what? That's what tax money is for.
Fat people die all the time too, you think being fat should be illegal?
We don't need drugs to cope with the insanities of modern life, but the vast majority of people in the US think they do.
Second point, tho....ABSOLUTELY. Imprisoning people is apparently the only solution to our problems that we can come up with. What should we do about the murderers, rapists, thieves, and various other criminals? Lock 'em up. You see someone doing something you think they shouldn't be doing? Lock 'em up. Someone's painting outside the lines? Daring to step away from the herd? Lock 'em up.
Sometimes I think prisons should be outlawed.
Quote from: LMNO on May 06, 2008, 02:53:09 PM
I only care when your needs are in direct conflict with my own.
For example, some meth lab explodes, the guy gets taken to the ER, can't pay the bills... who exactly pays for the ambulance, fire trucks, tox cleanup, and all the rest? Oh, yeah. Right.
Then no one wants to live in an area with a meth lab in it, so my property values goes down.
Then a bunch of broke-ass meth heads steal my car.
Victimless crime, my ass.
Nope.
Nope what?
You're doing that thing where you bitch about a bunch of stupid crap.
I dislike your entire premise for being against drugs.
So a crackhead steals your car. That's why it's against the law to steal cars.
Based on your premise, let's outlaw cigarettes, alcohol, salt, red meat, McDonalds, bicycles, firearms, candles, every goddamn things that might injury someone or bring down your precious property values.
If my point wasn't well made above, it might take time to get back at you. I love to argue with you, but am unable to do so properly at the moment.
We could just boil it down and make it simple:
Hunter: NO!
LMNO: YES!
Hunter: NO!
LMNO: YES!
Hunter: NO!
LMNO: YES!
Repeat as necessary.
You're getting lazy in your old age.
I accept your apology.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/STFU/Heisenbergstfu.jpg)
It's scientific.
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2008, 03:45:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 06, 2008, 03:36:50 PM
Then consider the junkies who "legally" OD. Same burden on society as the above.
Yeah, so what? That's what tax money is for.
Fat people die all the time too, you think being fat should be illegal?
That's what the "War On Drugs" money should be used for.
Stamp out tubolards!
I think the War On Fat would garner much more public support than the War on Drugs
or maybe we could compromise and make it the War on Fatties
LMNO is fat.
(http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/vel12/uploaded_images/creosote-747728.jpg)
...but classy.
Someone hit the nail on the head earlier: true and total decriminalization *would* solve a lot of the problems because it would take the stigma and misinformation out of the whole issue.
In a world where you could get cheap. legal, unadulterated MDMA, why would anyone want to take heroin? That would be the same as walking into a clinic and asking the doctor to give you a shot to make you into an insulin-dependant diabetic for the rest of your life.
"Lose my sight, destroy my liver and watch my feet rot off just to feel a little sleepy once in awhile? Where do I sign up?!?"
Also: Americans are lazy. They're not going to build a meth lab in their kitchen if they can get cheap stuff from the Mexicans who truck it in every Monday and Thursday. I won't lie: Meth heads are effed-up. Meth really does to you what the propaganda fear-machine told you crack and coke did in the 80's. It's a scary substance.
But no one believes the propaganda machine anymore, even when they're telling the truth...which they usually aren't. They haven't learned a goddamned thing. I'll prove it:
The next time you hear or read a story about some "ecstasy bust" or "ecstasy drug ring," I want you to listen carefully for the following earworm/catchphrase/viral propaganda: "Meth-like substance."
Let me tell you the truth here: It's true that MDMA has a similar chemical structure to Methamphetamine. The two are nothing alike, however. To say that MDMA is a "meth-like substance" is the equivalent of saying Helium is a "Propane-like substance."
The current "Zero Meth" campaign is designed to create panic over a legitimately scary substance. The WHOLE ENTIRETY of the rest of the "War on Drugs" must now piggyback on this panic. Otherwise; how do you justify spending billions and billions and billions of other people's dollars on a war that the current generation is now getting hip to? Oh, not to them, in the current totalitarian climate, they don't have to justify anything to us. No, no. All they have to do is declare a state of public emergency. We, The People...We suspected terrorists are too stupid, too...untrustworthy to do what's good for us. So they make it an act of "homegrown terrorism" and insert it into the Patriot Act (http://www.talkleft.com/story/2005/12/12/398/88950).
And in th meantime, you know what those billions of dollars are doing? They are paying for bigger, more unwieldy government, more inventive ways for them to strip everyone of the divine right to live unaccounted for by another fallible human entity, and they are making the violent drug cartels rich. Simple stock-market logic: For every dollar we spend on the "Drug war," that's one dollar's-worth more "demand" for violent evasion tactics we've created in in the market. For every dollar spent on government "identification" technology aimed at making every human entity completely transparent to a secretive few, that's two or three dollars more spent on technology and bribery and violent tactics to get the shipments in.
I could go on and on.
The tinfoil-hat people were right.
(And I am just futilely rattling the bars of my cage.)
Quote from: navkat on May 06, 2008, 05:29:32 AM
...is that we need drugs...because this fucking country has become such a goddamned prison that drugs are the only thing that makes the fucking pain and humiliation of being utterly, utterly dominated go away.
Not so. There is another option.
Quote from: LMNO on May 06, 2008, 02:53:09 PM
I only care when your needs are in direct conflict with my own.
For example, some meth lab explodes, the guy gets taken to the ER, can't pay the bills... who exactly pays for the ambulance, fire trucks, tox cleanup, and all the rest? Oh, yeah. Right.
Same people that pay when a poor person gets hit by a car.
Quote from: LMNO on May 06, 2008, 02:53:09 PM
Then no one wants to live in an area with a meth lab in it, so my property values goes down.
Then a bunch of broke-ass meth heads steal my car.
Victimless crime, my ass.
Freedom is more important than money. In fact, it's more important than anything.
Quote from: LMNO on May 06, 2008, 03:05:14 PM
Broke fuck-ups stealing my shit for a hit?
Yeah, probably. Why would making it legal change that?
Price goes down.
Quote from: Guan Yin on May 06, 2008, 03:47:41 PM
We don't need drugs to cope with the insanities of modern life, but the vast majority of people in the US think they do.
Second point, tho....ABSOLUTELY. Imprisoning people is apparently the only solution to our problems that we can come up with. What should we do about the murderers, rapists, thieves, and various other criminals? Lock 'em up. You see someone doing something you think they shouldn't be doing? Lock 'em up. Someone's painting outside the lines? Daring to step away from the herd? Lock 'em up.
Sometimes I think prisons should be outlawed.
Prisons are for those who cannot exist without preying on others.
Murderers, rapists, thieves, and Halliburton execs.
Potheads? Meh. All they do is sit on the couch, eating Cheetohs.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2008, 11:37:00 PM
Quote from: Guan Yin on May 06, 2008, 03:47:41 PM
We don't need drugs to cope with the insanities of modern life, but the vast majority of people in the US think they do.
Second point, tho....ABSOLUTELY. Imprisoning people is apparently the only solution to our problems that we can come up with. What should we do about the murderers, rapists, thieves, and various other criminals? Lock 'em up. You see someone doing something you think they shouldn't be doing? Lock 'em up. Someone's painting outside the lines? Daring to step away from the herd? Lock 'em up.
Sometimes I think prisons should be outlawed.
Prisons are for those who cannot exist without preying on others.
Murderers, rapists, thieves, and Halliburton execs.
Potheads? Meh. All they do is sit on the couch, eating Cheetohs.
Ideally, yeah. But my point is that prisons have become such a catch-all solution for every kind of crime, that we're throwing the potheads in with the thieves, and the Halliburton execs in with the rapists...and putting so damn many people in jail, that we're creating more of a problem than existed in the first place. The average citizen is a criminal, if you look hard enough...and that's just fucked up.
Outlawing prisons seems to me like it would require us to actually face the problems in our society, rather than locking them up and hoping they go away. If someone is a direct threat to the rest of us, why do we allow them to live in our communities? Or at all? Also, why are they a threat to us in the first place? What creates a killer or rapist (or whatever)? I get the impression that beyond academia, no one is really interested in finding out the answers to those questions, because it's so much easier to just lock 'em up.
Not that I want to go turning all the predators loose right this minute. :wink:
Quote from: Guan Yin on May 06, 2008, 11:58:55 PM
Ideally, yeah. But my point is that prisons have become such a catch-all solution for every kind of crime, that we're throwing the potheads in with the thieves, and the Halliburton execs in with the rapists...and putting so damn many people in jail, that we're creating more of a problem than existed in the first place. The average citizen is a criminal, if you look hard enough...and that's just fucked up.
Outlawing prisons seems to me like it would require us to actually face the problems in our society, rather than locking them up and hoping they go away. If someone is a direct threat to the rest of us, why do we allow them to live in our communities? Or at all? Also, why are they a threat to us in the first place? What creates a killer or rapist (or whatever)? I get the impression that beyond academia, no one is really interested in finding out the answers to those questions, because it's so much easier to just lock 'em up.
Not that I want to go turning all the predators loose right this minute. :wink:
So, because we throw harmless people in prison when we shouldn't, we shouldn't throw murderers there, either?
And have you ever MET an actual hardened criminal? They aren't that way because they want a fucking HUG. They're that way because they are essentially sociopaths.
I wouldn't throw too much effort into this conversation.
She's the one that wanted a death penalty for all rapists.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on May 07, 2008, 12:05:46 AM
I wouldn't throw too much effort into this conversation.
She's the one that wanted a death penalty for all rapists.
Meh. Everyone is deranged in one way or another.
TGRR,
An expert on the subject.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 07, 2008, 12:03:34 AM
Quote from: Guan Yin on May 06, 2008, 11:58:55 PM
Ideally, yeah. But my point is that prisons have become such a catch-all solution for every kind of crime, that we're throwing the potheads in with the thieves, and the Halliburton execs in with the rapists...and putting so damn many people in jail, that we're creating more of a problem than existed in the first place. The average citizen is a criminal, if you look hard enough...and that's just fucked up.
Outlawing prisons seems to me like it would require us to actually face the problems in our society, rather than locking them up and hoping they go away. If someone is a direct threat to the rest of us, why do we allow them to live in our communities? Or at all? Also, why are they a threat to us in the first place? What creates a killer or rapist (or whatever)? I get the impression that beyond academia, no one is really interested in finding out the answers to those questions, because it's so much easier to just lock 'em up.
Not that I want to go turning all the predators loose right this minute. :wink:
So, because we throw harmless people in prison when we shouldn't, we shouldn't throw murderers there, either?
And have you ever MET an actual hardened criminal? They aren't that way because they want a fucking HUG. They're that way because they are essentially sociopaths.
No. and no. What I am saying is that we throw way too many fucking people in jail, and we shouldn't do that. And that maybe what hardens a criminal isn't life in society, but life spent locked in a cell. Maybe some of them really are born that way, but maybe we make some of them that way by how we treat them. And HSD is right...you shouldn't put too much effort into this. I'm one of those deranged idealists. :p
Quote from: hunter s.durden on May 07, 2008, 12:05:46 AM
I wouldn't throw too much effort into this conversation.
She's the one that wanted a death penalty for all rapists.
and as you'll recall, as soon as I got my head out of my ass, I realized that wouldn't be a very good solution.
Guan Yin
-still thinks rapists get off easy
Often the events that create a hardened criminal are ones you cannot hope to fix, or in many cases even detect. There are warning signs for, say, serial killers (an example I know a bit about) but they're hardly gospel pieces of evidence, and certainly wouldn't stand up to close scrutiny if they alone were the basis of a charge. And I have issues with the state having the power to legally execute people anyway, so in such a case, prison really does seem like the best solution.
That said, I think the majority of white collar and victimless crimes do result in pointless jail terms because of a lack of imagination or out of a desire to be seen as "tough" on crime.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on May 07, 2008, 12:05:46 AM
I wouldn't throw too much effort into this conversation.
She's the one that wanted a death penalty for all rapists.
Who, me? I have NEVER advocated the death penalty. Ever.
Quote from: navkat on May 07, 2008, 03:57:27 AM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on May 07, 2008, 12:05:46 AM
I wouldn't throw too much effort into this conversation.
She's the one that wanted a death penalty for all rapists.
Who, me? I have NEVER advocated the death penalty. Ever.
No. Roo.
No, Guan Yin or Roo.
You, my dear, have been riding correct motorcycles all thread long.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on May 07, 2008, 03:59:18 AM
...You, my dear, have been riding correct motorcycles all thread long.
Well fuck...I'm doing something wrong, then.
You'll snap out of it, hang in there.
Quote from: navkat on May 07, 2008, 04:03:00 AM
Quote from: hunter s.durden on May 07, 2008, 03:59:18 AM
...You, my dear, have been riding correct motorcycles all thread long.
Well fuck...I'm doing something wrong, then.
Kick em in the nads.