LessWrongWiki: What the hell are they talking about?

[LMNO]

Which is part of the beauty of Bayes.  It's not that you should go through life doing weird math.  It's showing that the Intuitive answer is often wrong, and you have think things through (i.e. be rational) when making tough decisions.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I really liked my stats classes (as tedious as they were) for helping me to look at probability differently.

[Kai]

Thanks for starting this thread, LMNO.

I've found there's a great deal of variability in article /quality/ on LW. On one hand, you have Yudkowsky, and on the other you have things that feel a bit like philosophy amateur hour, or super far out ramblings on singularity related topics, or a combination of the two. When I first got interested in Less Wrong through the sequences, I was a little carried away with it, and I can see how easy it would be to dive into a cult-like mentality surrounding those ideas. Like how many Scientologists get started appreciating the benefits and are able to stomach the Xenu conspiracy when they finally learn about it. Replace Xenu with the singularity/cryopreservation/uploading-your-brain transhumanism and it can be much the same. Except, well, the Singularity Institute doesn't steal your money.

What I'm saying, I guess, is that I was a little taken in by the grandeur of the sequences and went a little overboard. I'm finding it really important to step back after reading and question in big black letters "IS THIS BULLSHIT?" Some of it isn't. Other parts may be (YMMV).

[Cain]

=

[Kai]

Just wanted to point out: In the most HPMOR chapter, Yudkowsky had a couple fiction recommendations at the end. One of them was this manga Murasakiiro no Qualia, which includes such topics as: a girl who sees everyone as robots, philosophical zombies, qualia, ethics, and probably more. I'm only halfway through.

The scanlation is here (Read right to left): http://www.mangahere.com/manga/murasakiiro_no_qualia/c001/

[LMNO]

That sounds cool.  Thanks, Kai!

Yes.  The majority of the sequences seem pretty useful, well thought and structured in such a way as to be easy to apply...but some of the general blog entries are of widely variable quality.  When I see the names of certain members, I generally skip their pieces (or at least I used to, when I read the blog regularly) because I found them either flawed, or self-centered, or to be reiterating information stated more eloquently elsewhere.

Has anyone looked at the Wiki in depth, and have any opinions on it?  I have only browsed it so far, and don't really have a strong impression either way.

I agree with you, it's hit-or-miss.  Some people are obviously trying to be TSGITR, and some are honestly interested in the work.  And some are simply bad writers.  I also started reading it as revelation, and have toned it down considerably since.


Funnily enough, that's pretty much what I did with RAW, as well.  Luckily, the cycle time on this was much faster.

[Kai]

Has anyone looked at the Wiki in depth, and have any opinions on it?  I have only browsed it so far, and don't really have a strong impression either way.

Seems like a dictionary to less wrong terminology. What it's useful for is finding posts on a particular topic, say, free will or Bayes Theorem. But it also makes the whole thing feel like a cult, with its own special language that is more than a bit exclusionary.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Crapulism (noun): The process whereby a thing that had some inherent budding merit is driven down in quality by low-quality intermediaries, inadvisable practices or a willful effort launched in a bid to keep a lesser being from appearing to be outclassed, whether true or not.

[Kai]

Crapulism (noun): The process whereby a thing that had some inherent budding merit is driven down in quality by low-quality intermediaries, inadvisable practices or a willful effort launched in a bid to keep a lesser being from appearing to be outclassed, whether true or not.

That might explain it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Crapulism (noun): The process whereby a thing that had some inherent budding merit is driven down in quality by low-quality intermediaries, inadvisable practices or a willful effort launched in a bid to keep a lesser being from appearing to be outclassed, whether true or not.

That might explain it.

Well, something like LW, you have two choices...Keep the content quality high, and become covered in dust as the site sinks into the depths of the internet, or crank out content whether or not you have any, and pretty soon it's a bunch of guys telling you why THEY are smart and YOU are NOT.

Reminds me of the "Black Iron Escapees" on TDS/Facebook.

[Kai]

Crapulism (noun): The process whereby a thing that had some inherent budding merit is driven down in quality by low-quality intermediaries, inadvisable practices or a willful effort launched in a bid to keep a lesser being from appearing to be outclassed, whether true or not.

That might explain it.

Well, something like LW, you have two choices...Keep the content quality high, and become covered in dust as the site sinks into the depths of the internet, or crank out content whether or not you have any, and pretty soon it's a bunch of guys telling you why THEY are smart and YOU are NOT.

Reminds me of the "Black Iron Escapees" on TDS/Facebook.

Yeah. Without the constant content, Less Wrong would be dead. Even if the innovators are spitting out good stuff as often as they can, innovators don't tend to stay in one place. So, Yudkowsky finishes his sequence on free will, he's not talking about it anymore. But since these other people in the community are adopters, not innovators, they can't help but rehash what he's already done. Is there a necessary trade off to keep a community going? It feels like some of this applies to PD as well.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It feels like some of this applies to PD as well.

Hey, thanks.  Thanks a fucking lot.

Sorry we don't live up to your expectations.

[Kai]

It feels like some of this applies to PD as well.

Hey, thanks.  Thanks a fucking lot.

Sorry we don't live up to your expectations.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that in every community there are a small number of innovators and a much larger number of adopters. This isn't necessarily a bad thing (see question about requirements of a community). Hell, I'm an adopter, not an innovator, so why would I insult myself by saying that was a bad thing? It doesn't mean we have crapulism.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It feels like some of this applies to PD as well.

Hey, thanks.  Thanks a fucking lot.

Sorry we don't live up to your expectations.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that in every community there are a small number of innovators and a much larger number of adopters. This isn't necessarily a bad thing (see question about requirements of a community). Hell, I'm an adopter, not an innovator, so why would I insult myself by saying that was a bad thing? It doesn't mean we have crapulism.

Okay, my bad.

Here we have a dozen posters and 4 times that many people who sit and stare at the screen, congratulating themselves for being too smart to watch TV.

Different folks for different folks, I guess.

[Kai]

It feels like some of this applies to PD as well.

Hey, thanks.  Thanks a fucking lot.

Sorry we don't live up to your expectations.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that in every community there are a small number of innovators and a much larger number of adopters. This isn't necessarily a bad thing (see question about requirements of a community). Hell, I'm an adopter, not an innovator, so why would I insult myself by saying that was a bad thing? It doesn't mean we have crapulism.

Okay, my bad.

Here we have a dozen posters and 4 times that many people who sit and stare at the screen, congratulating themselves for being too smart to watch TV.

Different folks for different folks, I guess.

I really don't want to turn this into a thread about 'what's wrong with PD'. But if I had to sum up why I "sit and stare at the screen", it's because you "dozen posters" have a whole lot of Holy^TM, and I'm just sitting here wondering how the hell I could ever collaborate at your level, not wanting to fuck up the process.