(attempting) to tie some ideas together.

[Payne]

Yeah.

Confusing.

I tried to simplify it at least

[AFK]

Yeah, I think if there is any intention to bring this subject matter outside of the group, being able to describe it to someone outside of the group is going to be key. 

[LMNO]

The main problem is that "space" is usally a 3-vector system all by itself, and now we're collapsing it to 1.

And within that, we're plotting a course.  Which sort of implies space.

So, we need someone with knowledge of how to manipulate n-dimensional space.

Or maybe I need to sketch some more.

[Triple Zero]

k how about this.

imagine a wide open cone, point facing down

it's a bumpy wrinkly cone, these are the factors that influence you in life. or shrapnel, or whatever.

now there's a marble, it starts at the edge of the cone (birth), and starts twirling down the cone, being affected in its trajectory by all the bumps and wrinkles, but inavoidably will end up in the bottom point, where there's a hole (death).

lovely metaphor, innit?

except that's not how it goes.

your life as a human can be modelled as a wriggly line (path) from birth to death through an extremely high dimensional space.
think of particles floating in a fluid being pushed around by a multitude of different currents and forces, each one representing a human life, each one affecting the fluid, the currents and the forces that act upon all the other particles. now imagine this particle being like a glowing spark coming from a campfire, it glows, follows a wriggly path and dies out after a while. take a picture with long shutter time. there's your line!

now imagine, with all particles together, affecting one another, wriggling through eachother's lives, long shutter time.

there's my tangled mess.

[LMNO]

I decided to break it down (with illustrations!)

Lets' start with just 2 axis: Space and time.



Ok, on the the timeline, we have birth and death.

So, just for example's sake, lets' say a person is born in a small room, and never leaves it.  It would look like this:



Ok, now let's say that (somehow), he learns that there was a person in this room before he was born.  That knowledge allows him to consider an area before he existed:



Now, let's have him leave the room.  He now enters space:



Now he encounters the shrapnel and meme fields, and his knowledge extends beyond his lifespan and space experience.




Somewhere in that yellow field is the Z axis, I would think.

[AFK]

So, then is the Yellow that which he thinks exists but cannot perceive or experience?  Imagination?

[LMNO]

In part, yeah.

But it's also like my idea of Ankor Watt.  I know it exists, but I have not experienced it, so the potential for my path to go there is much more possible.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

k how about this.

imagine a wide open cone, point facing down

it's a bumpy wrinkly cone, these are the factors that influence you in life. or shrapnel, or whatever.

now there's a marble, it starts at the edge of the cone (birth), and starts twirling down the cone, being affected in its trajectory by all the bumps and wrinkles, but inavoidably will end up in the bottom point, where there's a hole (death).

lovely metaphor, innit?

except that's not how it goes.

your life as a human can be modelled as a wriggly line (path) from birth to death through an extremely high dimensional space.
think of particles floating in a fluid being pushed around by a multitude of different currents and forces, each one representing a human life, each one affecting the fluid, the currents and the forces that act upon all the other particles. now imagine this particle being like a glowing spark coming from a campfire, it glows, follows a wriggly path and dies out after a while. take a picture with long shutter time. there's your line!

now imagine, with all particles together, affecting one another, wriggling through eachother's lives, long shutter time.

there's my tangled mess.

A cone!

[Valerie - Gone]

This thread made my head hurt trying to understand it. I think I like 000's example of a cone best, just because I could actually visualize it. Good luck to you guys trying to figure out what Z is.

[LMNO]

I just had another visualization:

Take a pool table.  Lucky for you, it's infinately large.

At one end is a cue ball.  That's you.

With a uterine push, you begin to roll down the table.

If nothing else ever happened to you, you'd go straight, and eventually stop.

However, from either side there are other balls running perpendicular to your path.  Sometimes, they miss; sometimes, they collide.  When they collide, your path changes (depending on the angle of the collision, you can go in many different possible ways).  These balls are can be considered our term of 'shrapnel'.

What's more, the table isn't smooth: There are elevations and depressions pockmarking the table.  Some are large, some are small, and all are at irregular intervals.  When you roll over them, they also change your path, but again it depends at what angle you run into them.  These bumps and dips can be considered memes.

So, shrapnel can knock you into memes, and memes can point you at shrapnel, and sometimes you miss the memes, and sometimes, the shrapnel misses you.  Note that your initial encounter with memes are dependent on where you start on the table: This accounts for cultural/geographical memes.  Note also that someone affected by a Xtianity bump can be knocked into an Islamic bump by means of shrapnel.

Finally, you have a very weak effect on the ball's direction itself.  That is, most people can't radically change the direction of their ball, but they can sometimes affect at which angle they hit a meme or some shrapnel; maybe they have influence over the spin.  So you're not completely helpless in your travels on the pool table, but at the same time, you don't have complete mastery of your journey.

Perhaps we can call the ability to affect the ball's spin "education" or "learning" or "wisdom".





Actually, I'm not sure this has anything to do with the OP other than re-reading this thread gave me these thoughts.

[Verbal Mike]

That's a very interesting thought and possibly a very useful metaphor.

[AFK]

Makes sense to me.  

And I think looking back on my life it certainly makes sense.  I know I'd most likely be in a completely different place in my life now, as a 32 year old, if I had stuck with the Baptist thing, which I probably would have stuck with if a certain person in my life hadn't died, which probably wouldn't have happened if she'd hadn't had an asshat performing her heart surgery, etc., etc., etc.,

Geez, maybe I'd be a successful Christian Rock n Roll Artist by now.  Fuck.  Maybe I should go find my religion again.  

[Golden Applesauce]

I just had another visualization:

Take a pool table.  Lucky for you, it's infinately large.

At one end is a cue ball.  That's you.

With a uterine push, you begin to roll down the table.

If nothing else ever happened to you, you'd go straight, and eventually stop.

However, from either side there are other balls running perpendicular to your path.  Sometimes, they miss; sometimes, they collide.  When they collide, your path changes (depending on the angle of the collision, you can go in many different possible ways).  These balls are can be considered our term of 'shrapnel'.

What's more, the table isn't smooth: There are elevations and depressions pockmarking the table.  Some are large, some are small, and all are at irregular intervals.  When you roll over them, they also change your path, but again it depends at what angle you run into them.  These bumps and dips can be considered memes.

So, shrapnel can knock you into memes, and memes can point you at shrapnel, and sometimes you miss the memes, and sometimes, the shrapnel misses you.  Note that your initial encounter with memes are dependent on where you start on the table: This accounts for cultural/geographical memes.  Note also that someone affected by a Xtianity bump can be knocked into an Islamic bump by means of shrapnel.

Finally, you have a very weak effect on the ball's direction itself.  That is, most people can't radically change the direction of their ball, but they can sometimes affect at which angle they hit a meme or some shrapnel; maybe they have influence over the spin.  So you're not completely helpless in your travels on the pool table, but at the same time, you don't have complete mastery of your journey.

Perhaps we can call the ability to affect the ball's spin "education" or "learning" or "wisdom".





Actually, I'm not sure this has anything to do with the OP other than re-reading this thread gave me these thoughts.

Call the ability to effect the ball's spin free will.  I like your metaphor/model a lot; the only thing I would change would be to put more emphasis on the potential power of free will.  Not complete - even the most self-actualized people have trouble doing 180s by themselves, and and very rarely used to its potential.  For me, the BIP is being wholly subject to the evironment and shrapnel, which makes freeing yourself a matter of taking control of your own path.

[PeregrineBF]

Make them heavy hamster balls. Steerable, but hard.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Make them heavy hamster balls. Steerable, but hard.

We have a winnar!

Especially when you consider that the plexiglass is going to distort what you see outside