Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Principia Discussion => Topic started by: LHX on June 13, 2006, 05:31:36 pm

Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LHX on June 13, 2006, 05:31:36 pm
Can somebody provide a rundown of this again?

It keeps coming up, but I cannot remember the specifics.


Maybe somebody should pin up a summary of the Barstool Experiment as well - for future reference.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 13, 2006, 05:38:30 pm
Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LHX on June 13, 2006, 05:46:32 pm
I really think this should be pinned.

Or possibly be the catalyst behind Discordia Revisited Advanced Course.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 13, 2006, 05:56:36 pm
The problem I have with it is that it isn't much fun.



LMNO
-Likes playing intellectual head games.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Proxy on June 13, 2006, 06:40:28 pm
Aha.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on June 13, 2006, 06:54:56 pm
Quote from: LMNO
The problem I have with it is that it isn't much fun.

not much fun? wouldn't a short story like this be just what we want for the upcoming lollercaust pamphlet B thing?

i mean, it's even got a good solid (omg pun) punchline.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 13, 2006, 07:01:21 pm
True.

It could probably use some punching up (OMGWTFBBQPUN!).

I also think Enricos Sacred Bull could go in.

What about it?  who's got some Lail to contribute?
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: B_M_W on June 13, 2006, 07:02:54 pm
Quote from: LMNO
True.

It could probably use some punching up (OMGWTFBBQPUN!).

I also think Enricos Sacred Bull could go in.

What about it?  who's got some Lail to contribute?


I agree with the Sacred Bull.

Where the hell is that retired dictator anway?
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 13, 2006, 07:03:55 pm
I dunno.  I miss that glorious faggot.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on June 13, 2006, 07:08:49 pm
Quote from: LMNO
I also think Enricos Sacred Bull could go in.

What about it?  who's got some Lail to contribute?


the sacred bull story was awesome.

i'll see if i can come up with anything, making up lail is at least more up my alley than writing down political angsty stuff (but i dont promise anything)

for the simple reason that you don't need to be believed for the first one to be successful :)

how heavy should we go on the inside-jokes btw?

- zero because they're n00bs?
- just a teensy bit of self-lailage?
- or medium chunks of injokes for great teasing and tickling "i want to be part of this to get this"

what would be the right way to capture (or just affect?) the humour receptive part of our audience?
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 13, 2006, 07:18:56 pm
a LITTLE OF EVERYTHING, i WOULD THINK.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: East Coast Hustle on June 13, 2006, 07:20:40 pm
I'm not all that good at writing stuff that's intentionally funny, but I think the "Dinnertime in Little Saigon" story might fit the bill, and you're more than welcome to use it.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Michal on June 13, 2006, 07:24:28 pm
The weird logic bit was funny as hell.

Know Jesus, know peace.
No Jesus, no peace.

In Biblical terms, to "know" someone meant "to be sexually intimate with them".

To me, peace is sleep or something equally boring.

Therefore, sex with Jesus is boring.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I saw this a while back in Apple Talk, but I'm too lazy to go thread-diving to quote it. Anyway, I think it appeals to the people with the sense of humor we're looking for.

And yeah, the bit about the Sacred Bull is a "must".
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on June 14, 2006, 12:51:13 am
Quote from: LMNO
True.

It could probably use some punching up (OMGWTFBBQPUN!).

I also think Enricos Sacred Bull could go in.

What about it?  who's got some Lail to contribute?


Gimmie a bit to warm up...

Seriously though, that'd be fucking awesome.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on June 14, 2006, 01:01:53 am
Quote from: Machine Grind Dream
Quote from: LMNO
True.

It could probably use some punching up (OMGWTFBBQPUN!).

I also think Enricos Sacred Bull could go in.

What about it?  who's got some Lail to contribute?


Gimmie a bit to warm up...

Seriously though, that'd be fucking awesome.


Actually, now that I think about it, adding anything to that would just fuck it up.

Short, sweet, and to the point. I say leave it as is.

As far as the Barstool Experiment goes.

As far as straight up lail goes I'll try to get ahold of BGP or, failing that, see if I can pull something funny out of my ass.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: the other anonymous on June 14, 2006, 08:21:33 am
Quote from: LHX
I really think this should be pinned.

Or possibly be the catalyst behind Discordia Revisited Advanced Course.


Discordia Revisited: Advanced Courses in Universally-Lucid Awareness

I love acronymns. :D
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on June 14, 2006, 08:38:09 am
Quote from: LMNO
Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.


bump4page2
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: putz on June 14, 2006, 09:22:59 am
Possibly my Marcel Duchamp story?  http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9835
If you think it's clumsy, I have no problem with someone copyediting/rewriting it so long as the basic ideas stay.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Michal on June 14, 2006, 09:32:22 am
I like it and I think you're more than capable of putting the final polish on it. But if you really want a second opinion, ask Gnimbley over on EB&G. Hes really good at this sort of thing.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on June 14, 2006, 09:50:02 am
I AM NOT MARCEL DUCHAMP!
\
(http://www.usc.edu/schools/annenberg/asc/projects/comm544/library/images/490bg.jpg)
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Michal on June 14, 2006, 09:51:31 am
Heheheh...
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 14, 2006, 03:59:04 pm
Revision:  Comments welcome.

Once upon a time, two Serious Minded people were in their local pub, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

Bill pointed out that most of what we consider matter is made up of empty space.  The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

Joe responded, but waitĶ As far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nerves.  And all they are doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object.  But what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often?  So, we cant really say whether or not the barstool even exists!

Just then, a man approached them and said, I couldnt help but overhear you two talking.  If I may, I have an experiment for you.  Purely in the interest of a Deeper Understanding of the Universe.

He then proceeded to pick up the barstool and pummel both Bill and Joe squarely about the head and torso, because they were so obviouly pretentious assholes who deserved a beatdown.

Thus, they were enlightened.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 15, 2006, 01:33:34 am
Quote from: LMNO
Revision:  Comments welcome.

Once upon a time, two Serious Minded people were in their local pub, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

Bill pointed out that most of what we consider matter is made up of empty space.  The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

Joe responded, but waitĶ As far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nerves.  And all they are doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object.  But what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often?  So, we cant really say whether or not the barstool even exists!

Just then, a man approached them and said, I couldnt help but overhear you two talking.  If I may, I have an experiment for you.  Purely in the interest of a Deeper Understanding of the Universe.

He then proceeded to pick up the barstool and pummel both Bill and Joe squarely about the head and torso, because they were so obviouly pretentious assholes who deserved a beatdown.

Thus, they were enlightened.


Heh.  I havwe a hankering to write this HST style. :lol:
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on June 15, 2006, 05:59:40 am
Everything is better Gonzo-ized.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 15, 2006, 06:32:21 am
Quote from: Machine Grind Dream
Everything is better Gonzo-ized.


Tomorrow, I will do horrible things to the memory of HST via this story.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Fizzwitz Glorypoop on June 15, 2006, 06:45:40 am
Quote from: LMNO
Revision:  Comments welcome.

Once upon a time, two Serious Minded people were in their local pub, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

Bill pointed out that most of what we consider matter is made up of empty space.  The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

Joe responded, but waitĶ As far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nerves.  And all they are doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object.  But what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often?  So, we cant really say whether or not the barstool even exists!

Just then, a man approached them and said, I couldnt help but overhear you two talking.  If I may, I have an experiment for you.  Purely in the interest of a Deeper Understanding of the Universe.

He then proceeded to pick up the barstool and pummel both Bill and Joe squarely about the head and torso, because they were so obviouly pretentious assholes who deserved a beatdown.

Thus, they were enlightened.


But then people might think we are violent! I think the man should sprinkle them with fairy dust and make them fly! Then they will see the error of their ways!


















 :)
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 15, 2006, 06:47:32 am
Quote from: Fizzwitz Glorypoop

But then people might think we are violent!



We aren't?
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on June 15, 2006, 11:05:29 am
I am proud to have introduced applied violence to the solution of long held philosophical problems.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 15, 2006, 12:22:57 pm
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Machine Grind Dream
Everything is better Gonzo-ized.


Tomorrow, I will do horrible things to the memory of HST via this story.


This is one of the best Ideas I've heard all week.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 16, 2006, 01:22:22 am
Quote from: LMNO
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Machine Grind Dream
Everything is better Gonzo-ized.


Tomorrow, I will do horrible things to the memory of HST via this story.


This is one of the best Ideas I've heard all week.


Efrim and I were in the airport bar, discussing the future of American football, when two men wearing clerical collars walked in.

They sat down, and pretty soon they were discussing the nature of reality, and of heaven and hell, and which swine would go where.  The first mentioned that the barstool next to the one he was sitting on was made of "matter", which is mostly empty space.  The second replied that there was no real proof that the stool even existed, since the senses are simply recording data that may or may not be correct.

Now, while we were paying attention to this, we missed the Raiders throwing yet another interception.  Efrim decided he had had enough, and walked over to the barstool in question.  He picked it up, and said, "I refute it THUS", and began to thrash the two clergymen.  One was knocked into me, and I spilled my drink...so, as he started to get up, I put my cigarette out on his neck.

"That will teach you to mess with serious people", I snarled, and kicked him back onto the floor.  Three TSA goons ran in, and dragged the two screaming ministers away, to some small filthy room where they would be made to explain themselves to all the wrong people.

Efrim sat down, and picked up his drink.  "I hate guys like that", he said, "Reality is anything that can raise a lump on your skull."

"That's because you have no faith in the words of St Augustine", I replied, "You young Turks are all the same".
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Fizzwitz Glorypoop on June 16, 2006, 04:01:03 am
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Fizzwitz Glorypoop

But then people might think we are violent!



We aren't?


Well, I might've been being facetious.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Prickly on June 16, 2006, 09:04:27 am
Wow, Roger managed to completely remove any and all humor from this experiment.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 16, 2006, 12:46:22 pm
Well, I liked it.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Michal on June 16, 2006, 02:20:15 pm
I did too.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 16, 2006, 02:22:47 pm
I was expecting it to be a little longer, though.


Maybe that's just because I don't want the fun to ever stop.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Michal on June 16, 2006, 02:29:43 pm
I always enjoy Tigger's work.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: East Coast Hustle on June 16, 2006, 06:03:00 pm
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: LMNO
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Machine Grind Dream
Everything is better Gonzo-ized.


Tomorrow, I will do horrible things to the memory of HST via this story.


This is one of the best Ideas I've heard all week.


Efrim and I were in the airport bar, discussing the future of American football, when two men wearing clerical collars walked in.

They sat down, and pretty soon they were discussing the nature of reality, and of heaven and hell, and which swine would go where.  The first mentioned that the barstool next to the one he was sitting on was made of "matter", which is mostly empty space.  The second replied that there was no real proof that the stool even existed, since the senses are simply recording data that may or may not be correct.

Now, while we were paying attention to this, we missed the Raiders throwing yet another interception.  Efrim decided he had had enough, and walked over to the barstool in question.  He picked it up, and said, "I refute it THUS", and began to thrash the two clergymen.  One was knocked into me, and I spilled my drink...so, as he started to get up, I put my cigarette out on his neck.

"That will teach you to mess with serious people", I snarled, and kicked him back onto the floor.  Three TSA goons ran in, and dragged the two screaming ministers away, to some small filthy room where they would be made to explain themselves to all the wrong people.

Efrim sat down, and picked up his drink.  "I hate guys like that", he said, "Reality is anything that can raise a lump on your skull."

"That's because you have no faith in the words of St Augustine", I replied, "You young Turks are all the same".


rah, etc.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on June 17, 2006, 01:32:02 am
:lol:

Best one so far.

Thompson would be proud.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 17, 2006, 04:26:51 am
Quote from: Prickly
Wow, Roger managed to completely remove any and all humor from this experiment.


Only to people that are too stupid to understand my 2 previous posts.

Um, that would be YOU. :lol:
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on June 17, 2006, 12:53:22 pm
One fine Maine evening, rife with the buzzing of mosquitos and the nearby substation, Chuck and I decided to put in an appearance at Joe's Hole In The Wall to enjoy our favourite spirits.

It came to be that we once again were discussing the finer, and duller, points of the universe and existence.  It was much more appealing than watching the Red Sox, yet again, implode upon the TV hanging from the ceiling next to the moose carcass.

Meanwhile a couple of chaps down the bar are also embroiled in their own deep discussion.  

"No man, I'm telling you there's a purple monkey right there on your shoulder"  one shouted.

"Dude, there isn't any stinking monkey on my shoulder.  That's just your 12th Rolling Rock talking." replied the other.

At which point Chuck and I had to interject.

"Excuse me my friend.  But what has you so convinced that there is not a purple monkey on your shoulder?"  Chuck asked.

"I ain't your friend freako!  And besides I don't see any monkey here on my shoulder.  You think I'd notice something like that."

"You assume it's your friend's drunken hallucination that is creating the purple monkey in his mind.  Has it ever occurred to you that it may be your drunken hallucination that is cloaking this very real purple monkey that is now urinating on your red flannel shirt?"  I asked of the man.

"I'm telling you man.  He's right there and this dude's right.  He's pissing all over your new shirt man."

"Here," I said.  And I handed him a book and a knife.  "Here's all that you need to see that which you cannot see."

And, as predicted, he proceeded to stab himself in the shoulder.

No one was particularily enlightened and Chuck and I were yet again banned from another bar.

The End.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: East Coast Hustle on June 17, 2006, 04:47:02 pm
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

good shit.
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on June 17, 2006, 11:48:23 pm
heh
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Prickly on June 19, 2006, 06:47:06 am
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Only to people that are too stupid to understand my 2 previous posts.

Um, that would be YOU. :lol:


Meh, I just thought the other version was a lot better. :P
Title: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 19, 2006, 06:53:09 am
Quote from: Prickly
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Only to people that are too stupid to understand my 2 previous posts.

Um, that would be YOU. :lol:


Meh, I just thought the other version was a lot better. :P


Whatever it takes to get you through the night, ma'am.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Reptyle on November 26, 2006, 11:38:28 am


it was friday night , raining outside, a bunch of soaking wet people some standing, some sitting, all trying to dry out by the fire. I was talking to one of the random people who had managed to find this small corner of the city we all call home. we were discussing the nature of ultimate reality in relation to quantum physics.
"it came down to wave particle duality" i told him."nothing exists until you percive it, which means you create your reality"
he replied with a grin on his face, "so you honestly belive that you created that stool over there?"
"yeah" i said "everything, its a figment of my creative imagination"
he then stood up walked ever so slowly to where the stool was sitting, picked it up and returned.
before i could ask what was his point he screamed "then stop hitting yourself" and proceeded to knock the shit out of me.
 before i could think about where i was i awoke to the bustling of a group of people in a small room trying to dry themselves by a fire talking about quantum physics.
the person i was talking to said "so you honestly belive that you created that stool over there?"
i told him i didnt know anything about quantum physics and that i would prefer to walk in the rain than finish this conversation. he was baffled and  annoyed that id avoided the topic, he assumed that it was because i didnt have a seat and i was tired from walking, so he got me a stool to sit on. when i tried to sit down i got a flash of the previous time i had been in this room, the stool dissappeared and i hit the floor, he laughed and said" you gotta make sure you remember it exists, BEFORE you sit down. dont you know anything.

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on November 26, 2006, 12:03:20 pm
I like.  Though my knowledge of quantum mechanics is somewhere about that of international finance ie; next to nothing.  Welcome to the forums.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: East Coast Hustle on November 26, 2006, 07:08:13 pm
interesting take on the idea.

and yeah, welcome aboard.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on November 27, 2006, 01:23:55 pm
Could use some refinement, but a nice angle.


::insight percolates::
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Reptyle on November 27, 2006, 09:48:07 pm
refine away
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on November 28, 2006, 12:54:28 pm
What, you want me to do it?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Reptyle on November 28, 2006, 01:06:09 pm
well im not gonna do it. if you want it refined you'll have to do it yourself.
i think the gist exists clear enough, ill refine things i buy off the street.

peace.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on November 28, 2006, 01:10:43 pm
Fair enough.


Consider it Kopylifted.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Reptyle on November 28, 2006, 01:30:13 pm
as long as its i get back at least 75% yield im happy.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on November 28, 2006, 01:31:48 pm
Nope.  You relinquished your rights to it.


It's mine now.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on November 28, 2006, 01:32:32 pm
Copyright it, quick!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on November 28, 2006, 01:42:47 pm


it was friday night , raining outside, a bunch of soaking wet people some standing, some sitting, all trying to dry out by the fire. I was talking to one of the random people who had managed to find this small corner of the city we all call home. we were discussing the nature of ultimate reality in relation to quantum physics.
"it came down to wave particle duality" i told him."nothing exists until you percive it, which means you create your reality"
he replied with a grin on his face, "so you honestly belive that you created that stool over there?"
"yeah" i said "everything, its a figment of my creative imagination"
he then stood up walked ever so slowly to where the stool was sitting, picked it up and returned.
before i could ask what was his point he screamed "then stop hitting yourself" and proceeded to knock the shit out of me.
 before i could think about where i was i awoke to the bustling of a group of people in a small room trying to dry themselves by a fire talking about quantum physics.
the person i was talking to said "so you honestly belive that you created that stool over there?"
i told him i didnt know anything about quantum physics and that i would prefer to walk in the rain than finish this conversation. he was baffled and annoyed that id avoided the topic, he assumed that it was because i didnt have a seat and i was tired from walking, so he got me a stool to sit on. when i tried to sit down i got a flash of the previous time i had been in this room, the stool dissappeared and i hit the floor, he laughed and said" you gotta make sure you remember it exists, BEFORE you sit down. dont you know anything.
ƂѢLMNO, 11/28/06


Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Reptyle on November 28, 2006, 01:48:00 pm
ill buy the refined copy back off you for the transcript of one lawsuit and 3 cold potato wedges with a small amount of sweet chilli sauce and sour cream on each.
that about all i own at the moment.


and ill be downloading the transcript in a minute if u agree.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on November 28, 2006, 01:53:12 pm
Which lawsuit?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Reptyle on November 28, 2006, 01:57:56 pm
butterbee vs the collage of idiots corporation sections 13 through 28 was all i could find, but its really very legal stuff in there you know, very very complicated lawyers and all that with wigs and fancy hammers. very descriptive. well worth it...
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on November 28, 2006, 01:59:29 pm
I'll pass.


Now, if you could get Lenny Bruce vs the State of New York, then you might have something.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Reptyle on November 28, 2006, 02:05:15 pm
  it some sort of transcript...
                   
"Because talking about it makes you
the worst person in the community.

 
                   
(man) When did you first meet Lenny?

 
                   
lt was back in       . Baltimore.

 
                   
l was, uh, headlining... Headlining?
l was working at this club.

 
                   
A-one, two, a-one, two, three, four!"
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on November 28, 2006, 02:06:52 pm
What, all you offer is excerpts?



Forget it.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Reptyle on November 28, 2006, 02:10:04 pm
yeah im finished. keep the damn barstool it doesnt exist anyway.  lazyness and a lack of creativity to think of query's has beaten me again.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on November 28, 2006, 02:11:19 pm
I AM TEH WINNAR!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: N E T on January 07, 2007, 12:57:34 am
(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4964/barstooljr8.jpg)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on January 07, 2007, 11:51:49 am
um... this is the correct barstoolcycle?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on January 08, 2007, 01:07:43 pm
I dunno, but I want one.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on January 08, 2007, 04:03:33 pm
Well, it certainly would be a conversation starter. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on January 08, 2007, 09:27:50 pm
yea, and seeing it contains a barstool, a conversation-ender as well ;-)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: blankofcourse on February 14, 2007, 12:33:13 am
I had to teach 8 year olds about matter today.
They wanted to know if god made matter, and if god was matter.
I asked them if god took up space and had mass.
They were not satisified.
So I said..the word god is matter.
Still, no digs.
When you were eight,what would satifisfy you?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 14, 2007, 01:01:19 am
A clip around the ear and being told to get back to my multiplication tables.  Apparently you can't do that now, but you couldn't do it back then either.....welcome, by the way.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Littlest Ubermensch on February 14, 2007, 02:25:37 am
If you had said, "Is love matter?" and asked some similar questions, I would've been satisfied. And that says "no" without being too complex or telling an 8 year old that God is nonexistent.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: theCalmpsychopath on February 14, 2007, 03:49:20 am
i just always thought that matter was everything and it didn't matter if god made it or if he was made from it
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 02:04:51 pm
I had to teach 8 year olds about matter today.
They wanted to know if god made matter, and if god was matter.
I asked them if god took up space and had mass.
They were not satisified.
So I said..the word god is matter.
Still, no digs.
When you were eight,what would satifisfy you?
i just always thought that matter was everything and it didn't matter if god made it or if he was made from it

First, matter is energy (E=mc2).

Second, you'd probably get fired if you tried to debunk God to an 8 year old.

Third, the barstool response would be, "it doesn't matter who or what created matter right now, simply understand that matter exists, and this is what it is."
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: blankofcourse on February 15, 2007, 01:59:51 am
It doesn't ..matter..anyway.
For today, for Vday, a student gave me a golden apple bell.
He's a lopsided chap, and gives me hope for the future.

Forgive my sentimental Valentine day post.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Rev. St. Syn, KSC on February 15, 2007, 02:48:58 pm
I had to teach 8 year olds about matter today.
They wanted to know if god made matter, and if god was matter.
I asked them if god took up space and had mass.
They were not satisified.
So I said..the word god is matter.
Still, no digs.
When you were eight,what would satifisfy you?
You're a teacher? Wait 'till the press gets a load of you posting here.
SCHOOL TEACHER CAUGHT SURFING ONLINE SEX, DEATH & DRUG CULT RING

Max lulz.

Yeah, welcome. :D
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mangrove on February 15, 2007, 02:53:08 pm
ANARCHISTS INFILTRATE LOCAL SCHOOL!!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Rev. St. Syn, KSC on February 15, 2007, 02:56:53 pm
NOOEEESS!!!! THEYS TOUCH CHILDREN!!!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mangrove on February 15, 2007, 02:57:48 pm
PD.com - destroying your chances of promotion since 2003
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: blankofcourse on February 16, 2007, 01:38:00 am
For added fun, I teach in Florida. 
It's cheaper for thrills.
I can get pissed on for my bumper stickers.
1.99 and a dream.




Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 16, 2007, 05:18:14 pm
Florida sounds like such a fun place.  I was starting to warm to it after CSI: Miami, too....

Cain,
evil foreign person.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: rabidpigmy on February 17, 2007, 01:55:56 pm
Depends on the part of Florida. I'm in the Thudhandle. :|
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: blankofcourse on February 21, 2007, 01:00:09 am
I'm in the oldest continuously occupied hiltontown

twas the only place that didn't check references :O)

I suppose smilies are frowned upon here

well

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 01:38:15 pm
Revision: Comments welcome.

Once upon a time, two Serious Minded people were in their local pub, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

Bill pointed out that most of what we consider matter is made up of empty space. The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

Joe responded, but waitĶ As far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nerves. And all they are doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object. But what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often? So, we cant really say whether or not the barstool even exists!

Just then, a man approached them and said, I couldnt help but overhear you two talking. If I may, I have an experiment for you. Purely in the interest of a Deeper Understanding of the Universe.

He then proceeded to pick up the barstool and pummel both Bill and Joe squarely about the head and torso, because they were so obviouly pretentious assholes who deserved a beatdown.

Thus, they were enlightened.


Quoted for re-jack.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 22, 2007, 06:28:14 pm
Barstool

(http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/48464/1171501449.gif)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 22, 2007, 06:33:57 pm
Is that Ann Coulter?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on February 22, 2007, 06:35:04 pm
That is fucking SWOTE2 Where did you get it? Why isn't it an emoticon already?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 22, 2007, 06:36:12 pm
Is that Ann Coulter?

No, its "Dr" Gillian McKeith, poop expert.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 22, 2007, 06:36:34 pm
That is fucking SWOTE2 Where did you get it? Why isn't it an emoticon already?

B3ta, only found it 5 minutes ago.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on February 22, 2007, 07:15:05 pm
Is that Ann Coulter?

No, its "Dr" Gillian McKeith, poop expert.

Heard a great description of her on the radio last night - "looks like a little baby eagle chick"
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 22, 2007, 07:16:44 pm
You know she's not a real doctor, right? She's just some bint who gets off on examining poop and vegetables.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on February 22, 2007, 07:18:18 pm
yeah so the guys on the radio said. She creeps me out. "you can be as healthy as me if you just stare at your own poop for long enough, Woman look like she died of crones disease 30 years ago.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: theCalmpsychopath on February 23, 2007, 06:55:10 pm
Quote from: Cain on: February 22, 2007, 01:16:44 PM
You know she's not a real doctor, right? She's just some bint who gets off on examining poop and vegetables.
that sounds like a fun job
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Lies on March 08, 2007, 09:03:09 am
I had to teach 8 year olds about matter today.
They wanted to know if god made matter, and if god was matter.
I asked them if god took up space and had mass.
They were not satisified.
So I said..the word god is matter.
Still, no digs.
When you were eight,what would satifisfy you?

Heh, personally, if I were dealing with 8 year olds, if they asked me if god made matter, I'd tell them the goddess made UP matter, and to answer is Goddess was matter, I'd reply with "Mu". Upon which I don't think they'd be very enlightened at all, unless you taught them chinese. But hey, Kids dig Moo'ing and maybe they'll all start to say moo enough themselves they wouldn't care what gods got to do with anything.
Also, I know it's not good for job prospects, but I'd like to let the kids know everything their parents/clergyman/government told them about god is a lie, and they shouldn't worry about trying to worry about what the world *is* and just go outside and play. We don't need no education, life should be about perpetual play. Intelligence builds Atom bombs. Wisdom lets us realise theres no need to use them, and its much better to just play in the sunshine instead.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 08, 2007, 10:11:44 am
I had to teach 8 year olds about matter today.
They wanted to know if god made matter, and if god was matter.
I asked them if god took up space and had mass.
They were not satisified.
So I said..the word god is matter.
Still, no digs.
When you were eight,what would satifisfy you?

Heh, personally, if I were dealing with 8 year olds, if they asked me if god made matter, I'd tell them the goddess made UP matter, and to answer is Goddess was matter, I'd reply with "Mu". Upon which I don't think they'd be very enlightened at all, unless you taught them chinese. But hey, Kids dig Moo'ing and maybe they'll all start to say moo enough themselves they wouldn't care what gods got to do with anything.
Also, I know it's not good for job prospects, but I'd like to let the kids know everything their parents/clergyman/government told them about god is a lie, and they shouldn't worry about trying to worry about what the world *is* and just go outside and play. We don't need no education, life should be about perpetual play. Intelligence builds Atom bombs. Wisdom lets us realise theres no need to use them, and its much better to just play in the sunshine instead.

Right on man
       \
 :hippie:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 04, 2007, 10:11:40 pm
An eight year old girl walks into a dirty bar. It's mid afternoon and there are only a few drunks and dealers hanging around. The barman is in the corner molesting a fruit machine for all his money's worth; he didn't see the little girl come in. She approaches the bar slowly and climbs up onto a barstool. One of the older farts glares at her, his eyes damp and bloodshot, heavy in the smokey sunlight. She looks back at him, brow furrowed, a serious look on her face. Her dark brown eyes are unblinking in the tobacco smoke.

The barman suddenly shouts "Fucking useless!", and slaps the glowing bandit with a sweaty palm. He turns back to the bar, stops in his tracks as he sees the little girl, then strides towards her, voice raised.

"You're not supposed to be in here . . ."
"But it's the afternoon," she replies - "Kids are allowed in in the afternoon."
Taken aback, the barman nervously takes a cloth from his pocket and points it at her, "You . . . out . . . now."

"But I'm allowed . . ." she says, "I'm allowed to be here."
Feeling threatened, the barman starts to sweat. He's never got on with children, and this one's rebelious. Deep down, he knows he's out of his depth, and that scares him. "Now . . . who told you that? . . . You're going to have to leave."

Her unexpected presence in his everyday world wasn't right. She wasn't supposed to be here. This was wrong. He was going to have to throw her out, but he was afraid of touching her. He half steps towards her, arms reaching forward, but he's uncertain and hesitates. She pulls away from him, gripping the barstool tight with both hands.

"Fuck sakes, lad!" says the old scowler from the corner, "Leave her be." The barman and the little girl both look at the old boy hunched behind his table. Slowly, he stands, wobbles, and then calmly shuffles over to stand beside the little girl.

"Here . . . ", he puts a coin on the bar, "Get her a lemonade or something will you." The barman, relieved someone else has taken charge, scuttles off behind the bar to pour the drink. The little girl looks at the old man. She's close enough to smell the stale beer on his breath and see the stains on his fingers. "Thanks" she says. "Your welcome" he says, half coughing. He strokes her cheek kindly and she smiles. Slowly, the old man staggers back to his seat, and the barman serves the lemonade in a tall glass with a straw. The little girl spends the rest of the afternoon sitting happily on the barstool, sipping her pop.

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on April 04, 2007, 11:14:59 pm
An eight year old girl walks into a dirty bar. It's mid afternoon and there are only a few drunks and dealers hanging around. The barman is in the corner molesting a fruit machine for all his money's worth; he didn't see the little girl come in. She approaches the bar slowly and climbs up onto a barstool. One of the older farts glares at her, his eyes damp and bloodshot, heavy in the smokey sunlight. She looks back at him, brow furrowed, a serious look on her face. Her dark brown eyes are unblinking in the tobacco smoke.

The barman suddenly shouts "Fucking useless!", and slaps the glowing bandit with a sweaty palm. He turns back to the bar, stops in his tracks as he sees the little girl, then strides towards her, voice raised.

"You're not supposed to be in here . . ."
"But it's the afternoon," she replies - "Kids are allowed in in the afternoon."
Taken aback, the barman nervously takes a cloth from his pocket and points it at her, "You . . . out . . . now."

"But I'm allowed . . ." she says, "I'm allowed to be here."
Feeling threatened, the barman starts to sweat. He's never got on with children, and this one's rebelious. Deep down, he knows he's out of his depth, and that scares him. "Now . . . who told you that? . . . You're going to have to leave."

Her unexpected presence in his everyday world wasn't right. She wasn't supposed to be here. This was wrong. He was going to have to throw her out, but he was afraid of touching her. He half steps towards her, arms reaching forward, but he's uncertain and hesitates. She pulls away from him, gripping the barstool tight with both hands.

"Fuck sakes, lad!" says the old scowler from the corner, "Leave her be." The barman and the little girl both look at the old boy hunched behind his table. Slowly, he stands, wobbles, and then calmly shuffles over to stand beside the little girl.

"Here . . . ", he puts a coin on the bar, "Get her a lemonade or something will you." The barman, relieved someone else has taken charge, scuttles off behind the bar to pour the drink. The little girl looks at the old man. She's close enough to smell the stale beer on his breath and see the stains on his fingers. "Thanks" she says. "Your welcome" he says, half coughing. He strokes her cheek kindly and she smiles. Slowly, the old man staggers back to his seat, and the barman serves the lemonade in a tall glass with a straw. The little girl spends the rest of the afternoon sitting happily on the barstool, sipping her pop.



good story...
lacks prerequisite violence.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: theCalmpsychopath on April 04, 2007, 11:37:59 pm
i liked it, but i was expecting more death and raping
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 04, 2007, 11:42:11 pm
needs more tentacles.

(seriously, i will read it tomorrow)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on April 05, 2007, 12:51:38 pm
Please explain why you think this is in any way relevant to the topic at hand.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 05, 2007, 01:15:04 pm
ok, i read it.

still needs more tentacles.

also, it's a nice story. well written and such. but, except that it takes place in a bar, it doesn't really have much to do with the metaphysical parable discussed in this thread, also known as "the barstool experiment".
i suppose you're trying to go from the angle that the barman's paradigm is suddenly shaken up by the appearance of a little girl in a grubby bar. especially the final bit, that she keeps sitting there all afternoon, being out-of-place sitting there. just it's more of a description of the status quo of a cabbage barkeeper "The barman, relieved someone else has taken charge", and he doesn't even walk out with some sort of lesson or revelation or whatever.

so yes, what LMNO said, please explain what this has to do with the barstool-experiment or discordianism.

also, you're the alt right? so you should probably already know random writing and short stories have their own place in the "Literate Chaotic" or "Bring and Brag" subfora, and you even get to create a shiny new thread for them!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 01:39:22 pm
I'm sorry, I thought this was just an intelectual game. Did I brake the rules? I was simply developing the story, that is the purpose of this thread isnt it?

I'm simply using the same themes but in a diferent way. That is, who's version of reality holds sway in any given relationship. The violence is strongly implied I think.

I would hope that you didn't really think this was a discusion on Zen techniques?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on April 05, 2007, 01:50:35 pm
Now you're just trying to fuck with us.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 05, 2007, 02:44:27 pm
the barstool-experiment parable is sort of like floaty pink cloudy hippie detergent

BUT

it hits the priest and scientist alike.

and if you don't get that, just trust us that random stories should go into those other subfora. the barstool-experiment parable is a littlebit more specific than what you just said.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 03:44:23 pm
Yes, I think you're right. The version this thread started with is a lot more specific with regards to the metaphysical dead-end it highlights.

I think what I was trying to do was take it out of the realms of intellectual masturbation and try and relate it to something a bit more personal. I don't claim to have succeeded, but I think it was worth a go.

By the way, I thought fucking with each other was the whole point?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on April 05, 2007, 03:49:21 pm
First: What makes you think the Barstool is a metaphysical dead end?

Second, how does a kid in a bar relate to pragmatism (which is the essential point of the Barstool)?

Third: How is a kid in a bar more personal to you?

Fourth: Fucking with each other is not the point.  Roll the dice again.

Fifth:  No fifth post.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 04:00:17 pm
1) The barstool isn't a metaphysical dead-end, the discussion that leads up to being struck by it is.

2) The kid in a bar isn't pragmatic at all, I was playing around with what had been said previously in the thread.

3) By more personal, I mean I was trying to focus more on human relationships in stead of "intellectual" content (metaphysics etc). I'm more interested in that side of things, personally.

4) Apologies, I find it easy to be sarcastic. I should temper my replies.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 05:04:13 pm
You guys don't love me do you?

Betrayed again.

 :oops:

 :cry:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 05, 2007, 05:31:37 pm
2) The kid in a bar isn't pragmatic at all, I was playing around with what had been said previously in the thread.

3) By more personal, I mean I was trying to focus more on human relationships in stead of "intellectual" content (metaphysics etc). I'm more interested in that side of things, personally.

that's why it's a parable. parables do that stuff.
(or maybe an allegory? i'm not really too precise on these literary terms)

in regular words, it's a story that tries to speak about a metaphysical concept (in this case a specific type of pragmatism) and does this with a sort of metaphorical story.

also: this is the wrong forum to come looking for love, so stop asking.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Payne on April 05, 2007, 05:34:15 pm
love is: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=1695.0

It really doesn't work well in here. And unless you're an Alt. for ECH, I don't think that really works either...
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on April 05, 2007, 05:52:41 pm
You guys don't love me do you?

Betrayed again.

 :oops:

 :cry:

What if everybody hates you?

Because they do.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 06:38:09 pm
You guys get soooo teratorial!

I don't need to look for love anyl onger. I've already found it. I love you guys! :lulz:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 06:47:46 pm
2) The kid in a bar isn't pragmatic at all, I was playing around with what had been said previously in the thread.

3) By more personal, I mean I was trying to focus more on human relationships in stead of "intellectual" content (metaphysics etc). I'm more interested in that side of things, personally.

that's why it's a parable. parables do that stuff.
(or maybe an allegory? i'm not really too precise on these literary terms)

in regular words, it's a story that tries to speak about a metaphysical concept (in this case a specific type of pragmatism) and does this with a sort of metaphorical story.

also: this is the wrong forum to come looking for love, so stop asking.

I see your point about it being a parable. My version is far from being so obviously that. But isn't either version totally redundant as a psychological tool while posted on this forum and simply just a form of literature? I would have thought that for either to be effective (in the Zen sense) they would need to be transmited by someone who really knew what they were doing?

No, I think I'm wrong. I think forums can turn you on too.

Aren't we all looking for love?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 05, 2007, 06:58:06 pm
this thread was created because some people were talking about "the barstool experiment", then some newer peoples didn't know what it was, then we realized we didn't really have a "definite" barstool story.

it's here mostly for reference as to "what is the barstool experiment?"
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 06:59:49 pm
in regular words, it's a story that tries to speak about a metaphysical concept (in this case a specific type of pragmatism) and does this with a sort of metaphorical story.

Actually, I think this parable is trying to point out the futility of any metaphysic. I thought it was pointing outside of the head and it's limited concepts and into the superconscious void of hyperobjectivity?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 05, 2007, 07:06:33 pm
what
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on April 05, 2007, 07:09:13 pm
A punk and an emo were talking in a bar.

The punk says to the emo, "Everybody hates you.  I ought to hit you over your head with this barstool."
The emo responds, "The barstool is only an imaginary thing made by your brain because you want it to be.  It cannot hurt me.  My heart would break the windows if it were let out.  My pain is so real. Nothing is really real. Matter is all so empty because nothing matters any more."
The punk ponders this. "I will show you real pain."
The punk and the friends of the punk lift up the barstool and the emo and defenestrate both the emo and the barstool.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 05, 2007, 07:17:43 pm
needs more tentacles, but otherwise :mittens:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on April 05, 2007, 07:35:02 pm
I see your point about it being a parable. My version is far from being so obviously that. But isn't either version totally redundant as a psychological tool while posted on this forum and simply just a form of literature?


No.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 11:00:48 pm
A punk and an emo were talking in a bar.

The punk says to the emo, "Everybody hates you.  I ought to hit you over your head with this barstool."
The emo responds, "The barstool is only an imaginary thing made by your brain because you want it to be.  It cannot hurt me.  My heart would break the windows if it were let out.  My pain is so real. Nothing is really real. Matter is all so empty because nothing matters any more."
The punk ponders this. "I will show you real pain."
The punk and the friends of the punk lift up the barstool and the emo and defenestrate both the emo and the barstool.

I think this is definately the best one yet. Straight from the heart. You can't fault that. I am sorry that you're angry though.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 11:04:41 pm
I see your point about it being a parable. My version is far from being so obviously that. But isn't either version totally redundant as a psychological tool while posted on this forum and simply just a form of literature?


No.

Fair enough. I can see where you're coming from.

Are you anoyed as well?

There seem to be a few out there.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Idem on April 05, 2007, 11:07:43 pm
what
srsly, what I was about to say
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 11:16:59 pm
Why do you want to hit me over the head with a bar stool anyway? Surely there's an easier way to do things than that? All I did was change your little story and people start freaking out! Jesus. Cool, keep your story as it is. It doesn't need changing, it's fine. I conceed. Must have been something I ate.

I was just thinking how stupid this whole avatar secret name thing was, but now I see why people need to hide around here.

Good job, Discordians! You really welcomed me into your fold.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on April 05, 2007, 11:30:53 pm
The barstool experiment consists of five parts.

1. Some dope or dopes who pretend they know what matter is.
2. They postulate hypotheses about the nature of matter in a metaphysical manner.
3. Somehow a barstool works itself into the storyline (e.g. a character mentions it)
4. Someone else or by some method, the barstool is used to strike the dope or dopes from #1.
5. The story ends with the moral that one should not worry so much about the nature of matter, the world, social constructs, etc. so much as they are there and for one's use or harm.

Anything else involving barstools or experiments should be in Literate Chaotic or anywhere but this thread.

It's kind of like writing a sonnet or a haiku.  You have a form to follow.


Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 05, 2007, 11:33:53 pm
Ok, thanks for the explenation.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Payne on April 05, 2007, 11:37:41 pm
Learning the barstool form is a very important lesson in here. Its not wholly and unimpeachable, but many of this forums denizens find something common in it.

Be careful with it.

Oh! And you may be an alt. for someone who I've not heard of, but I don't care about that. Yet. Other than that, welcome.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Idem on April 06, 2007, 12:52:52 am
Ok, thanks for the explenation.
Are you a Brit and/or a Vargyr?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 06, 2007, 01:14:22 am
What's a Vargyr?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on April 06, 2007, 01:24:24 am
What's a Vargyr?

A priest said to a student: "What is matter?"
The student repsonds: "I don't care what matter is.  You see that barstool over there?"
The priest says: "Sure, but it's only my mind telling me it's there."
Student: "Yes, but did you have to www.fuckinggoogleit.com or be told to know that it will hurt you?"
The priest responds: "But God will protect me."
The student beats the priest senseless with the barstool.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 06, 2007, 01:40:45 am
Thanks.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Idem on April 06, 2007, 01:43:58 am
I don't even know if I spelled the fuckin thing right
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on April 06, 2007, 01:46:01 am
I don't even know if I spelled the fuckin thing right
See new thread in apple talk.

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 06, 2007, 02:08:22 am
A 50th level Dwarf Savage called Vargyr is sitting in a bar somewhere in Moria. He's talking to his friend Dodo and trying to make sense of some weird things he's been thinking.

"I just tell ya, Dodo, I can't trust anything anymore. I keep thinking things aren't really there you know? I keep feeling like I'm going to fall through the floor."

"Yea, it's difficult." replied Dodo thinking of his own troubles.
"How are we supposed to know any of this is real?"

"It's really getting me down." said Vargyr. "I hope it is all just a dream."

"It's like this barstool," said Dodo thoughtfully. "There's no real reason why I should doubt my senses, but there's no real way of knowing that it's . . .you know?  . . . really real?".

"Exactly!" exclaimed Vargyr. "And yet . . . I can't help feeling that I'm missing the point somehow . . ."

"I'm feeling it . . ."said Dodo in a soft voice. "I think . . . I'm really  . . . feeling it . . ."

"Feeling what?" asked Vargyr with a quizicle look on his face. He watched as his friend got off his barstool and started inspecting it's leggs. "You know, I'm really . . . I don't know . . . feeling this legg . . ."

"Maybe if I just lie on the floor here and hold this legg like this . . . and now . . . yes, just as I thought, I can make the barstool seem as if it's hovering above me, just by holding it above my head like this."

"Wow," said Vargyr, "you know i think you're on to something there. Maybe you really are creating your own reality and the barstool is now hovering above you . . ."

"You really think?" asked Dodo excitedley.

"Well there's only one way of finding out." replied Vargyr confidently.

Just then, Dodo let go of the barstool, and it fell, hitting him squarely on his forhead.

"Ouch!" said Dodo.   

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Your Audience on April 06, 2007, 02:21:11 am
Ok, thanks for the explenation.
Are you a Brit and/or a Vargyr?

I'm a Brit in the traditional sense of the word and I'm considering changing my name to Vargyr.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on April 06, 2007, 01:20:39 pm
The barstool experiment consists of five parts.

1. Some dope or dopes who pretend they know what matter is.
2. They postulate hypotheses about the nature of matter in a metaphysical manner.
3. Somehow a barstool works itself into the storyline (e.g. a character mentions it)
4. Someone else or by some method, the barstool is used to strike the dope or dopes from #1.
5. The story ends with the moral that one should not worry so much about the nature of matter, the world, social constructs, etc. so much as they are there and for one's use or harm.

Anything else involving barstools or experiments should be in Literate Chaotic or anywhere but this thread.

It's kind of like writing a sonnet or a haiku.  You have a form to follow.


The trick is to make #2 be as convincing as possible, to lure the reader into the tricksy metaphysical land of hypothesis and metaphor.  So when the barstool comes, it's as unexpected for the reader as it is for the poor sap getting clobbered.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 06, 2007, 03:00:53 pm
The barstool experiment consists of five parts.

1. Some dope or dopes who pretend they know what matter is.
2. They postulate hypotheses about the nature of matter in a metaphysical manner.
3. Somehow a barstool works itself into the storyline (e.g. a character mentions it)
4. Someone else or by some method, the barstool is used to strike the dope or dopes from #1.
5. The story ends with the moral that one should not worry so much about the nature of matter, the world, social constructs, etc. so much as they are there and for one's use or harm.

Anything else involving barstools or experiments should be in Literate Chaotic or anywhere but this thread.

It's kind of like writing a sonnet or a haiku.  You have a form to follow.


The trick is to make #2 be as convincing as possible, to lure the reader into the tricksy metaphysical land of hypothesis and metaphor.  So when the barstool comes, it's as unexpected for the reader as it is for the poor sap getting clobbered.

that's the fun bit  :lol:

i often tell the barstool experiment to hippie-types, and when i get to point #2 i can usually make some sort of semi-convincing metaphysical hippy crap argument and they all go nodding with their head "uhuh yeah .. man .. nothing's real man .." like they really "dig it", and oooohhh that makes it so much fun when i get to point #4  :evil:

"and then he took the barstool bashed and bashed them to a pulp for being a bunch of hippies"

good times
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Wolfpoet on April 16, 2007, 10:51:09 pm
What's a Vargyr?

Vargr, no fucking Y!

It's an old Norse word which has two meanings Wolf and Outlaw, it's a title used to refer to a Norse Pagan who follows Nordic practices but rejects conventional Nordic morality and ethics, every religion has a similar thing.

Also some RPG has arace called Vargr who are basicly werewolves and there is a nother RPG called Vampire: Dark Ages where they use the word to describe a viking vamp.

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2007, 10:58:00 pm
What's a Vargyr?

Vargr, no fucking Y!

It's an old Norse word which has two meanings Wolf and Outlaw, it's a title used to refer to a Norse Pagan who follows Nordic practices but rejects conventional Nordic morality and ethics, every religion has a similar thing.

Also some RPG has arace called Vargr who are basicly werewolves and there is a nother RPG called Vampire: Dark Ages where they use the word to describe a viking vamp.



Which practices do you follow?

TGRR,
Hopes you don't hang thralls.  They're hard to come by, these days.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Wolfpoet on April 16, 2007, 11:03:23 pm
I follow (or at least try to) the 9 virtues and try to follow the examples set by the old myths and deity-stories. I follow a more grass-roots version of the religion.

I just don't buy into the modern, ritualised asatru crap. strikes me as wicca with horned helmets. Some ego-centric high prioest type telling me how I should or should not practice this ritual or that one? Fuck that shit.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2007, 11:06:36 pm
I follow (or at least try to) the 9 virtues and try to follow the examples set by the old myths and deity-stories.

Sounds kinda bloody, if I remember my Norse mythology correctly.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Wolfpoet on April 16, 2007, 11:14:58 pm
I follow (or at least try to) the 9 virtues and try to follow the examples set by the old myths and deity-stories.

Sounds kinda bloody, if I remember my Norse mythology correctly.

The underlining message is enlightenment through self-sacrifice, standing up for yourself and accepting fate. Goes against the whole compensation culture going on these days.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2007, 11:23:08 pm
standing up for yourself and accepting fate.

huh?

Goes against the whole compensation culture going on these days.

Sounds more like it goes against itself.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Wolfpoet on April 16, 2007, 11:30:35 pm

Sounds more like it goes against itself.

Fate can't be changed, your kinda fucked whatever you do. The point is to stand up, face fate witha  smile and say "fuck you bitch, what's next?"

No point fighting the inevitable, but you can face it with a smile and stand up against it. You'll be fucked over every time, the point is to keep standing up.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on April 16, 2007, 11:43:46 pm
:ninja: I smell a fkin pagan :hosrie:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2007, 11:44:21 pm

Sounds more like it goes against itself.

Fate can't be changed, your kinda fucked whatever you do. The point is to stand up, face fate witha  smile and say "fuck you bitch, what's next?"

No point fighting the inevitable, but you can face it with a smile and stand up against it. You'll be fucked over every time, the point is to keep standing up.

That sounds kinda retarded.  If I'm going to get fucked every time, I may as well sit on the couch and eat cheetos.

Fuck, I may as well use the system to get you to pay for it.

But don't get mad.  It was fated to happen.  :lulz:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2007, 11:45:06 pm
:ninja: I smell a fkin pagan :hosrie:

Careful, you.  He's got a wolf howling in his soul...he'll royally fucking your shit 6 ways from Sunday.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on April 16, 2007, 11:45:21 pm
fate = how your life looks backwards
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on April 16, 2007, 11:47:09 pm
:ninja: I smell a fkin pagan :hosrie:

Careful, you.  He's got a wolf howling in his soul...he'll royally fucking your shit 6 ways from Sunday.

Barstool + wolf = wolf + stool-shaped-dents
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2007, 12:07:02 am
fate = how your life looks backwards

 :lulz:

Yoinked.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 17, 2007, 06:08:15 am
funny, 'enlightenment by self-sacrifice and accepting fate (for the masses)' is the title of the book Dick Cheney's going to release as soon as he leaves office.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Wolfpoet on April 17, 2007, 09:06:15 am
funny, 'enlightenment by self-sacrifice and accepting fate (for the masses)' is the title of the book Dick Cheney's going to release as soon as he leaves office.

He wouldn't know what self-sacrifice if it bit his cock off.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 17, 2007, 01:02:51 pm
that's why he's the perfect person to write about it.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: St John the Blasphemist on April 21, 2007, 01:45:49 am
Just in case you haven't seen it--the barstool experiment carried out (thanks for the pointer, Lysergic).
Quote
This X-ray image shows the leg of a chair embedded into the eye socket of a Melbourne teenager who miraculously survived a random attack outside a city nightclub earlier this year.
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i234/St_JtB/350_skull.jpg)

Full story with x-ray pics here (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/miracle-saved-teens-eye-after-assault/2007/04/20/1176697042514.html).

St John the Blasphemist
Saint of (more) Chair Legs
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on April 24, 2007, 01:24:40 pm
Used the Barstool Experiment on jesus freaks yesterday... The results were as desired: they gave up on the causality arguement they were trying to push.

I need to rework Panzer AG's "Filth God" into the third person for them next time.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on April 24, 2007, 07:46:57 pm
Quote
Once upon a time, two Serious Minded people were in their local pub, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

Bill pointed out that most of what we consider matter is made up of empty space.  The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

Joe responded, but waitĶ As far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nerves.  And all they are doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object.  But what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often?  So, we cant really say whether or not the barstool even exists!

Just then, a man approached them and said, I couldnt help but overhear you two talking.  If I may, I have an experiment for you.  Purely in the interest of a Deeper Understanding of the Universe.

He then proceeded to pick up the barstool and pummel both Bill and Joe squarely about the head and torso, because they were so obviously pretentious assholes who deserved a beatdown.

Thus, they were enlightened.


So, what does this metaphor mean?

First off, it does not mean the use of violence against stupid, or willfully ignorant people.

What it does mean is not to forget the idea of pragmatism in any sort of philosophical discussion that deals with the way we interact with the universe.

Our imaginations can hold a lot of ideas, and we can build upon these ideas immensely.  We can even do this if the initial ideas are complete bullshit.

The barstool is a metaphor for telling you that your grand castle in the sky that you build after sleepless nights and too much LSD is, in fact, completely worthless.


I would suggest another metaphor be created that represents the whack to the head of the willfully ignorant or stupid.

I suggest clawhammer.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on April 24, 2007, 08:00:59 pm
Barstool story is perfect!

I've loved that one since I first saw it. Who the hell wrote that anyroad?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on April 24, 2007, 08:01:53 pm
It was Cain's idea, but I wrote the above quoted version.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on April 24, 2007, 08:03:25 pm
I've actually gotten IRL Lulz with that tale - the scientist and the philosopher gag
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Payne on April 24, 2007, 08:05:57 pm
This was one of the first things I read in here. I'm always reminded of one of the pub regulars  who insists on telling me that "glass is technically a liquid", usually at a rate of once every couple days.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 26, 2007, 08:24:56 pm
I would suggest another metaphor be created that represents the “whack to the head” of the willfully ignorant or stupid.

I suggest “clawhammer.”

ah so that's what you meant with clawhammer in the other thread?

mind that i was then really (trying to) use the barstool-metaphore in the "pragmatism yay" kind of fashion, not for simply bashing the ignorant.

sometimes the barstool is useful for both, but never for just bashing the stupid.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on April 26, 2007, 08:28:18 pm
Yeah, I still have to write a parable of the Clawhammer.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jenne on April 27, 2007, 04:47:33 am
HA!    :D

I'm glad you're going to do that.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 27, 2007, 09:18:57 am
i was reading Terry Pratchett's Thief of Time last night, and came across this quote. it's a very different story than the barstool experiment, but i think it somehow covers the same sentiments:

  'The poet Hoha once dreamed he was a butterfly, and then he awoke and said, "Am I a man who dreamed he was a butterfly, or am I a butterfly dreaming he is a man?" ', said Lobsang, trying to join in.
  'Really?', said Susan briskly. 'And which was he?'
  'What? Well . . . who knows?'
  'How did he write his poems?' said Susan.
  'With a brush, of course.'
  'He didn't flap around making information-rich patterns in the air or laying eggs on cabbage leaves?'
  'No-one ever mentioned it.'
  'Then he was probably a man.' said Susan.

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on April 27, 2007, 01:35:20 pm
 :lulz:


Indeed.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on April 27, 2007, 01:38:29 pm
Still the most Discordian book done by him so far. 

I have to email him with thanks and my suggestion for an Errata based storyline (Errata being the Discworld's Eris).
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mister Mischief on May 02, 2007, 07:40:50 am
Still the most Discordian book done by him so far. 

I have to email him with thanks and my suggestion for an Errata based storyline (Errata being the Discworld's Eris).

AND DON'T FORGET TO PUT A DISCLAIMER ON IT!  :eek: EVERY RELIGIOUS BOOK WRITTEN IN THESE TIMES NEEDS A DISCLAIMER.  I PULLED THESE OFF OF THE INTERNET  :lulz:...

For documents and software available from this server, the U.S. Government does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed. Various content on this site may be subject to copyright by journals and publishers. Use of the copyrighted material is subject to the terms and conditions of use established by the journal or publisherNCBI does  Some NCBI Web pages may provide links to other Internet sites for the convenience of users. NCBI is not responsible for the availability or content of these external sites, nor does NCBI endorse, warrant, or guarantee the products, services, or information described or offered at these other Internet sites. Users cannot assume that the external sites will abide by the same Privacy Policy to which NCBI adheres. It is the responsibility of the user to examine the copyright and licensing restrictions of linked pages and to secure all necessary permissions. not endorse or recommend any commercial products, processes, or services. The views and opinions of authors expressed on NCBI's Web sites do not necessarily state or reflect those of the U.S. Government, and they may not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes. This site is maintained by the U.S. Government and is protected by various provisions of Title 18 of the U.S. Code. Violations of Title 18 are subject to criminal prosecution in a federal court. For site security purposes, as well as to ensure that this service remains available to all users, we use software programs to monitor traffic and to identify unauthorized attempts to upload or change information or otherwise cause damage. In the event of authorized law enforcement investigations and pursuant to any required legal process, information from these sources may be used to help identify an individual.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mister Mischief on May 02, 2007, 07:43:42 am
Now THAT's an interesting experiment...what happens when you steal a DISCLAIMER from the U.S. Government?  :D
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 03, 2007, 04:30:35 pm
Quote
Once upon a time, two Serious Minded people were in their local pub, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

Bill pointed out that most of what we consider matter is made up of empty space.  The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

Joe responded, but waitĶ As far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nerves.  And all they are doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object.  But what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often?  So, we cant really say whether or not the barstool even exists!

Just then, a man approached them and said, I couldnt help but overhear you two talking.  If I may, I have an experiment for you.  Purely in the interest of a Deeper Understanding of the Universe.

He then proceeded to pick up the barstool and pummel both Bill and Joe squarely about the head and torso, because they were so obviously pretentious assholes who deserved a beatdown.

Thus, they were enlightened.


So, what does this metaphor mean?

First off, it does not mean the use of violence against stupid, or willfully ignorant people.

What it does mean is not to forget the idea of pragmatism in any sort of philosophical discussion that deals with the way we interact with the universe.

Our imaginations can hold a lot of ideas, and we can build upon these ideas immensely.  We can even do this if the initial ideas are complete bullshit.

The barstool is a metaphor for telling you that your grand castle in the sky that you build after sleepless nights and too much LSD is, in fact, completely worthless.


I would suggest another metaphor be created that represents the whack to the head of the willfully ignorant or stupid.

I suggest clawhammer.



I find it fascinating that even with a stickied post, and even with extensive commentary, some people claim that there is no explaination of the Barstool.


These people, I feel, are extremely lazy, with limited reading comprehension.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: That One Guy on May 03, 2007, 04:33:00 pm
These people, I feel, are extremely lazy, with limited reading comprehension.

And you think this concise, simple explanation will help them?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 03, 2007, 04:36:51 pm
No.


Sometimes, I just like pointing out the fail in others.


I'm kind of an asshole that way.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: That One Guy on May 03, 2007, 04:46:00 pm
 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on May 07, 2007, 09:08:49 am
please read it all, as there are shameless edittings!

Once upon a time, two Serious Minded people were in their local pub, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

Bill pointed out that most of what we consider matter is made up of empty space.  The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

Joe responded, but waitĶ As far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nerves.  And all they are doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object.  But what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often?  So, we cant really say whether or not the barstool even exists!

The barstool then proceeded to pick up itself and pummel both Bill and Joe squarely about the head and torso, because they were so obviously pretentious assholes who deserved a beatdown.

Thus, they were enlightened.

hi im new, and the respectless.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 07, 2007, 01:14:35 pm
Interesting approach.


Oh, and hi.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on May 07, 2007, 06:29:25 pm
yeah i figured, not only is it real, its really pissed of. because, you know, bad manners telling someone they dont exist and such. and sapient, also... apparently.

what i really wanted at first was to make the story about a barstool having a loud discussion with itself or perhaps just whining about wether or not it existed. and then have a man come by and beat himself up with the barstool, or perhaps have the barstool pick itself up and beat itself about. either way... i didnt cus it would stray to far from the point. it would've been more fun though.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 07, 2007, 06:31:15 pm
Could make an interesting story, though.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on May 07, 2007, 06:33:55 pm
BY JOHNNY I'LL DO IT!!!

tomorrow


maybe
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on May 07, 2007, 06:35:52 pm
Heh, you're one of us alright.  LMNO has been meaning to finish LMNO-PI tomorrow for years, and I haven't even started some of my stuff.

Welcome, btw.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on May 07, 2007, 06:41:12 pm
but i really will do it tomorrow... heh

greetings
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Discord on May 08, 2007, 04:52:38 am
Thats the problem, really doing things tomorow  :lulz:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on May 08, 2007, 08:52:29 am
i heard tomorrow basically consists of 99% empty space anyway.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on May 08, 2007, 11:30:26 am
Tomorrow then proceeded to pick up itself and pummel triple zero squarely about the head and torso :evil:

tomorrow i will write a list of all things sapient, so as not to piss them off
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Lies on May 08, 2007, 11:40:04 am
The only thing discordians fear are sentient barstools attacking us tomorrow.

Thankfully the goddess protects us by making sure tomorrow never comes.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: PopeTom on May 08, 2007, 11:47:51 am
The only thing discordians fear are sentient barstools attacking us tomorrow.

Thankfully the goddess protects us by making sure tomorrow never comes.

You are just begging for a schism and Annie to be it's first martyr.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Lies on May 08, 2007, 11:50:40 am
The only thing discordians fear are sentient barstools attacking us tomorrow.

Thankfully the goddess protects us by making sure tomorrow never comes.

You are just begging for a schism and Annie to be it's first martyr.

That made absolutely no sense, even for a discordian.

I don't know who failed in this case, as you might actually be saying complete tripe and in that case, you fail. But then I probably just missed the lulz, and in that case, I fail.

In anycase, I don't want to know the answer.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 08, 2007, 12:49:04 pm
(http://www.vventertainment.nl/images/theater/annie.jpg)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Discord on May 08, 2007, 12:56:34 pm
Yeah TOMORROW, I just cant wait.

But you really got me thinking, what if tomorrow really comes? Actually its per definitionem not possible but... time travel? Time travel THROUGH empty Space?  :lulz:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: PopeTom on May 08, 2007, 01:04:36 pm

That made absolutely no sense, even for a discordian.

I don't know who failed in this case, as you might actually be saying complete tripe and in that case, you fail. But then I probably just missed the lulz, and in that case, I fail.

In anycase, I don't want to know the answer.

You think that's bad, you should see the sad looks of confusion on the faces of my non-Discordian friends when I say something that ends up being uproariously funny only to me.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Lies on May 08, 2007, 01:23:46 pm
(http://www.vventertainment.nl/images/theater/annie.jpg)

Yeah, I figured it to be *that* Annie, but... whats she got to do with being a martyr and barstools?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: PopeTom on May 08, 2007, 01:31:15 pm
Yeah, I figured it to be *that* Annie, but... whats she got to do with being a martyr and barstools?

Your comment:

Quote
Thankfully the goddess protects us by making sure tomorrow never comes

Annie's thoughts on tomorrow:
Quote
The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
So ya gotta hang on
'Til tomorrow
Come what may
Tomorrow! Tomorrow!
I love ya Tomorrow!
You're always
A day
A way!

Looks like a place for a schism to me.
And since I'm sure you would be able to take a 10 year old orphan in a fight I'd guess she would be the primary martyr for the side that splits.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Lies on May 08, 2007, 02:34:03 pm
Ah, right, I see. I haven't actually *seen* annie, but I do know of it, and the song does seem familiar, I'm definitely sure I know the tune that accompanies it.

Ok, I'm back on the track now :D
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: PopeTom on May 08, 2007, 02:35:05 pm
Ah, right, I see. I haven't actually *seen* annie, but I do know of it, and the song does seem familiar, I'm definitely sure I know the tune that accompanies it.

Ok, I'm back on the track now :D

Sweet, and here comes the train.

:)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on May 21, 2007, 08:21:21 pm
The only thing discordians fear are sentient barstools attacking us tomorrow.

Thankfully the goddess protects us by making sure tomorrow never comes.

You are just begging for a schism and Annie to be it's first martyr.


You better mean the musical.

I've already played the scapegoat once.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on May 23, 2007, 10:55:19 am
apocalypse-is-nigh!!!! Tommorow MIGHT have happened... can anyone confirm this?

A serious minded barstool was sitting in his pub, having a few pints, and

talking about the nature of Universe.

Suddently he started ranting that most of what we consider matter is made up

of empty space.  The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the

nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, I shouldn't even be

considered a solid!

"But waitĶ As far as I can actually prove, I might simply be a

hallucination, for I am not actually seeing myself, I'm processing

electric signals in my head generated by my optic nerves.  And all they are

doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object.  But

what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often?  So, I

cant really say whether or not I even exist! He continued.

Just then, a man approached him and said, I couldnt help but overhear you

talking.  If I may, I have an experiment for you.  Purely in the interest of a

Deeper Understanding of the Universe.

He then proceeded to pick up the barstool and pummel both Bill and Joe squarely

about the head and torso, because they were so obviously pretentious assholes

who deserved a beatdown.

Thus, they were enlightened.


all



of



them



all
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on May 23, 2007, 11:06:48 am
word salad barstool?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on May 23, 2007, 11:11:20 am
yes very.

nutricious

plus

only three(or four... i forget) edits... psh i must be drunk... hmm... i don't feel drunk.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on May 23, 2007, 11:18:33 am
please don't post while you're drunk. especially not in stickied threads.

if you feel you've got something interesting to say while intoxicated, write it up in notepad, re-read when you're sober and if it's still interesting, only then post it.

we care not for the ramblings of drunken n00bs.

did you check the several "n00bs read this" threads on this forum?

[note to people who are thinking "50 posts!", i'm not flaming him, just educating. that's what the 50 posts are for.]

if the barstool-salad was a serious attempt of rewriting the barstool story, i got a remark: i don't like how "Bill and Joe" are suddenly introduced in the story as if they were always there, it was a barstool thinking/talking and now suddenly there's Bill and Joe being pretentious assholes deserving a beatdown? there is nothing in the story to suggest why or how.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on May 23, 2007, 12:42:08 pm
lookey here mam... my points are that not only does things we look at sometimes seem unreal, but also our very own existence. and if i can think like that, i can certantly not have bill and joe becomming pretentious assholes because i would be one myself... i think that the suddenicity of them becomming pretentious assholes in each story are the same. ive got a kinda "nothing can be proven do wtf ever" kinda thing going.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 23, 2007, 12:44:38 pm
... and you thought you'd share?

Lucky us.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on May 23, 2007, 12:54:09 pm
nonono, lucky me that i am not the only one with someting intestintegrating to say. now just let me be... the greatest way to kill me is to have me boycutted. the way your acting it could look like its some weird noob "come be one of us BUT FIRST HAHAHA" thing... just leave me be, if you dont like it.

like i did, ya?  :)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 23, 2007, 01:13:58 pm
Do you only post when in the throes of a temporal lobe seizure or something?

I can't make out a word of it  :eek:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 23, 2007, 01:19:25 pm
Guys!


50.

Posts.


fast speed may have been drunk when he posted, but that's his right.

I think he was close to something.  Don't bash him. 


Fast, I invite you to speak more on this.  In the meantime, here's bit of fun:

A serious minded barstool was sitting in his pub, having a few pints, and
talking about the nature of Universe.
Suddently he started ranting that most of what we consider “matter” is made up
of empty space.  "The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the
nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, I shouldn't even be
considered a solid!"

"But wait, As far as I can actually prove, I might simply be a
hallucination, for I am not actually seeing myself, I'm processing
electric signals in my head generated by my optic nerves.  And all they are
doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object.  But
what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often?  So, I
can't really say whether or not I even exist!" He continued.

Just then, a man approached him and said, HOLY SHIT!! A TALKING BARSTOOL!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on May 23, 2007, 02:55:51 pm
lookey here mam... my points are that not only does things we look at sometimes seem unreal, but also our very own existence.

what do you mean by this?

Quote
and if i can think like that, i can certantly not have bill and joe becomming pretentious assholes because i would be one myself...

but you did? what do you mean?

Quote
i think that the suddenicity of them becomming pretentious assholes in each story are the same.

how is is the same?

Quote
ive got a kinda "nothing can be proven do wtf ever" kinda thing going.

that's nice. a lot of us here can relate to that sort of thing. we appreciate, however, if you can discuss these concepts in understandable language.

nonono, lucky me that i am not the only one with someting intestintegrating to say. now just let me be... the greatest way to kill me is to have me boycutted. the way your acting it could look like its some weird noob "come be one of us BUT FIRST HAHAHA" thing... just leave me be, if you dont like it.

like i did, ya?  :)

sorry but if i can't understand half a sentence you're saying, i'd rather not have those posts mess up stickied threads.

it's not like we ask you to "come be one of us", it's simply that it's a lot more fun and less work for us to discuss all these concepts when we try to write them down in a clear manner.

Guys!

50.

Posts.

what? how?

my interpretation of the 50 post suggestion is that i won't flame him for being incomprehensible in his first 50 posts.

that does NOT mean i'm not going to ask him to clarify himself, nor does it mean i will not point out the incomprehensibility of his posts.

because otherwise, how is he going to learn you don't need to babble incoherently in order to say something interesting on a discordian board?

Quote
fast speed may have been drunk when he posted, but that's his right.

I think he was close to something.  Don't bash him. 

not bashing him.

just asking for clarification.

preferably clarification when he's sober.

Quote
Fast, I invite you to speak more on this. 

me too, but please do it in comprehensible sentences.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on May 23, 2007, 04:59:03 pm
tch

i see.  :oops:

i will try to write in a language that we can all easily understand, although it will probably not be as rewarding when you finally understand it.  :p

i will clarify my points later.

i wasnt drunk, at any time. dunno how that came to be such a big thing.

ooh how i will clarify...  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 23, 2007, 05:03:25 pm
I look forward to it.

My questions:

1. Why give sentience to the barstool?

2. In doing so, how do you feel about taking a parable against flights of fancy, and making it fancful?

3.  How would two assholes be enlightened after being hit by a sentient barstool?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: HBOMB on May 23, 2007, 06:33:07 pm
The barstool as a metaphor for the foundation that we sit upon making our pretentious statements as if we ever completely understood the entire scope of existence?

Basically....st00pid humans?

I'm still new at this but well aware that I'm fair game for a smack down.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 23, 2007, 06:36:15 pm
I think almost everything boils down to "stupid humans".
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 23, 2007, 06:42:27 pm
LMNO waving a huge big troofbrush ITT
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Fuzzymike on May 23, 2007, 09:03:28 pm
I think almost everything boils down to "stupid humans".


I've been thinking and saying this for years. In fact it has become my mantra. And yes everything (and I mean everything!) boils down to "stupid humans". Simply because without humans and the way they percieve reality, and force their perceptions on others, nothing would seem like it does.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 23, 2007, 09:07:35 pm
First of all, welcome to the boards.

Second, could you expand upon that.  In particular, I'm interested in an expansion on the idea of "nothing would seem like it does."
How do things seem in your estimation?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Darth Cupcake on May 23, 2007, 09:40:48 pm
I am curious how "nothing would seem like it does" without us perceiving the seeming.

Did that make sense?

Even within the realm of "stupid humans," perception is wildly varying. The roomies and I were having one of those drunk philosophy talks the other night about people we know who exist in COMPLETELY different realities, who just perceive the world completely differently from the "norm," if you will. But every one of these so-called realities are subjective. Perhaps my roomie's ex-girlfriend was closer to "actual" reality, if you will, than he and I are. But who are we to say?

There are concrete things (such as barstools, for example), but how people respond to them, etc, happens on a huge scale of variation. So how can we even say things would "seem" different if we weren't here to say how it seems?

Or am I just ending up saying "if a tree falls and no one is there to hear it, does it make a noise?" I don't know. I had a point when I started. :?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 01:05:32 pm
I think we need to have a different word than "reality".

Because, what it seems you're talking about isn't the little bits of stuff whizzing around the universe, it's about human relations and human culture.

Which would make Fuzzy's (hi, Fuzzy.  Welcome to the boards) statement say, "If it there were no humans, we wouldn't have this fucked up human culture."

Which, being a tautology, is quite true.


But even if there were no humans, those little bits of stuff would still be whizzing around the universe.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on May 24, 2007, 01:06:58 pm
Reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 01:33:21 pm
Exactly.


I just used more words.






LMNO
-Verbose motherfucker.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on May 24, 2007, 02:00:52 pm
But even if there were no humans, those little bits of stuff would still be whizzing around the universe.

do you have anything to back up this statement with?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 02:18:50 pm
Yup.


Those bits were whizzing around before we knew they were there.  They didn't suddenly appear just because we invented a positron collider.

And, modern physicis has removed the observer from the equations (contrary to what the pseudo-physics nutjobs say).

So, if things are whizzing around, and we remove an incredibly small amount of that stuff (humans), the stuff would still whiz around.

No, our observations do not create the physical universe.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 24, 2007, 02:21:11 pm
How about the ocean deeps?  I think it's safe to say there is no humanity down there, cept for the occassional National Geographic submarine.  There's a certain reality, or "bits of stuff" that have, I assume, been existing without our presence.  Perhaps if we weren't around it would be different, in fact I'm sure it would be somehow.  But it would still "be" in some fashion wouldn't it?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 02:27:42 pm
I would say so.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on May 24, 2007, 02:29:34 pm
Yup.


Those bits were whizzing around before we knew they were there.  They didn't suddenly appear just because we invented a positron collider.

And, modern physicis has removed the observer from the equations (contrary to what the pseudo-physics nutjobs say).

So, if things are whizzing around, and we remove an incredibly small amount of that stuff (humans), the stuff would still whiz around.

No, our observations do not create the physical universe.

ZOMG MY MIND JUST COLLAPSED THE WAVE FIELD TO MAKE YOU SAY THAT!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 02:37:42 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/scanners.gif)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Fuzzymike on May 24, 2007, 02:55:21 pm
Think about it, when you are born do you have any preconceived notions about what reality is? I don't know. I don't personally remember being born, in fact my first memories are when I was about 2-3. Thats a long ass time for my parents and anyone else around me during that time to impose their will, their perceptions, their beliefs on mine. And at such a critical time when I have no defense, no way to cut out the bull shit and lies. And so it is with almost all children. I think the only "humans" capable of having a clear, unclouded view of reality would have to be an infant that was removed from the rest of the species at birth, and not introduced to the concept of "human" till they were about 5 yrs or so and had a good solid grasp on the concept of "me" first. Unfortunetley such a child would be nothing like a "civilized" child in the traditonal sence and would probably seem quite alien to those of us who were imprinted with the preconcieved notion of "human" from birth. But back to the original point, take such a child, or better yet put yourself in the mind of such a child, how would things seem to you. What would you make of these loud, poison spewing animals rolling along the paths with other animals inside them? what are these tall shiny rocks the other animals are moving in and out of constantly? And whats with these leaves with faces on them that the other animals keep throwing at each other. In conclusion reality as it is commonly percieved today is a thin veneer of civilization laid over the very real instincts and motivations of a monkey. How did that veneer get there its not there at birth, it must have been placed over us by our elders and perpetuated through the generations. Reality is a joke and "humans" are th punchline. Have a nice day. :fnord:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 03:02:03 pm
Of course, you're talking about the way we percieve and interpret the whizzing bits in the Universe, not about the bits themselves.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Payne on May 24, 2007, 03:02:32 pm
Think about it, when you are born do you have any preconceived notions about what reality is? I don't know. I don't personally remember being born, in fact my first memories are when I was about 2-3. Thats a long ass time for my parents and anyone else around me during that time to impose their will, their perceptions, their beliefs on mine. And at such a critical time when I have no defense, no way to cut out the bull shit and lies. And so it is with almost all children. I think the only "humans" capable of having a clear, unclouded view of reality would have to be an infant that was removed from the rest of the species at birth, and not introduced to the concept of "human" till they were about 5 yrs or so and had a good solid grasp on the concept of "me" first. Unfortunetley such a child would be nothing like a "civilized" child in the traditonal sence and would probably seem quite alien to those of us who were imprinted with the preconcieved notion of "human" from birth. But back to the original point, take such a child, or better yet put yourself in the mind of such a child, how would things seem to you. What would you make of these loud, poison spewing animals rolling along the paths with other animals inside them? what are these tall shiny rocks the other animals are moving in and out of constantly? And whats with these leaves with faces on them that the other animals keep throwing at each other. In conclusion reality as it is commonly percieved today is a thin veneer of civilization laid over the very real instincts and motivations of a monkey. How did that veneer get there its not there at birth, it must have been placed over us by our elders and perpetuated through the generations. Reality is a joke and "humans" are th punchline. Have a nice day. :fnord:

Regardless of what conditioning we receive as very young children, our perceptions will always be skewed. Even if you are raised by wolves, you will still have a skewed sense of "reality".

I wouldn't say that humans are the punchline in any cosmic joke, it still places us at the centre of everything, showing that you, at least would inextricably link humans with perception of reality.

The "veneer of civilisation" is part of the CoN, as I understand it. It's not so much placed there by our progenitors, as it is placed there by every cabbage we interact with, even when we CAN start to think for ourselves.

The bolded statement above, I believe could land you in jail in several countries. "Put yourself in a child" indeed.......  :D
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 24, 2007, 03:10:17 pm
Fuzzymike,

Fundamentally, I have to disagree with you on some points.  #1, I don't think parents can have as much impact on a child from 0 to 2 as you seem to be claiming, at least, not in the fashion you are claiming.  At that age, really, all the infant is doing is learning about his or her world.  The child is trying to figure out how to use his limbs, how to communicate that he needs food, to be changed, etc.  I don't think a child really has the capacities to have preconceived notions grafted onto his perceptions.  I say this from the experience of having currently a 3 year old.  I could have read the PD to her when she was one year old, and gone on at lengths about Discordianism and how to be a Discordian, to her it just would have been:  "yada, yada, yada".  Now, I would say at about 2 to 3 then, yes, a child can be susceptible to his parents ideas and ideals.  

I have no doubt that the world and "reality" do seem quite different to a 5 year old compared to a 31 year old.  I mean, of course it is.  It takes a really, really long time for a child to learn about the world and his or herself.  The brain continues to develop until the age of 25, so even in young adulthood, our perceptions are changing.  

I disagree with your summation because it seems to assume a purposeful act on behalf of "our elders."  I think there are a lot of well meaning parents out there, like myself, who try their best to let their child grow up and discover who they are on their own.  And to learn and discover about their world on their terms.  However, the parental instinct of keeping the child safe from harm is a very strong one.  So, in the name of security a parent may instill certain ideas into the child.  Some are good, "Look both ways before you cross the street."  Some not so good, "Believe in God or burn in Hell."  But, I don't think it is as absolute as you make it out to be.  
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Fuzzymike on May 24, 2007, 04:51:52 pm
Of course, you're talking about the way we percieve and interpret the whizzing bits in the Universe, not about the bits themselves.

To the best of my knowledge our perceptions cannot effect the bits at all. they are whether we are or not.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 04:55:28 pm
So we agree, then.  That's nice.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2007, 06:03:38 pm
How about the ocean deeps?  I think it's safe to say there is no humanity down there, cept for the occassional National Geographic submarine.  There's a certain reality, or "bits of stuff" that have, I assume, been existing without our presence.  Perhaps if we weren't around it would be different, in fact I'm sure it would be somehow.  But it would still "be" in some fashion wouldn't it?

Logic and almost every other rule you could apply, dictates that it does but I'd bet even science would be reluctant to call this an irrefutable fact because the bottom line is - we can't prove it.

It's an extension of BIP the way I see it, that and a bit of matrix flung in, that reality is actually projected by us and only exists in a bubble, around the observer. Yes, I agree, this is a patently ridiculous hypothesis but it is one, nonetheless that we can't completely rule out.

If you want to fuck your head in with metaphysics then, take it from someone who has, this kind of paradigm is exactly the kind of thing that will do it for you.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on May 24, 2007, 06:05:36 pm
i had typed up a very long reply saying about the same thing as Silly, but i didn't want to get anal about it.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2007, 06:07:04 pm
I wasn't being pernickety, tbh, I found shit like this useful in the past. Operation mindfuck, self administered. You should see how fast the walls of the prison come down when you start entertaining notions like this.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 24, 2007, 06:10:21 pm
How about the ocean deeps?  I think it's safe to say there is no humanity down there, cept for the occassional National Geographic submarine.  There's a certain reality, or "bits of stuff" that have, I assume, been existing without our presence.  Perhaps if we weren't around it would be different, in fact I'm sure it would be somehow.  But it would still "be" in some fashion wouldn't it?

Logic and almost every other rule you could apply, dictates that it does but I'd bet even science would be reluctant to call this an irrefutable fact because the bottom line is - we can't prove it.

It's an extension of BIP the way I see it, that and a bit of matrix flung in, that reality is actually projected by us and only exists in a bubble, around the observer. Yes, I agree, this is a patently ridiculous hypothesis but it is one, nonetheless that we can't completely rule out.

If you want to fuck your head in with metaphysics then, take it from someone who has, this kind of paradigm is exactly the kind of thing that will do it for you.

So you're saying that it's possible the ocean floor may only exist when we are actually there?
So, by this logic, it's possible to jump from a mile high cliff and walk away without a scratch. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on May 24, 2007, 06:12:00 pm
So you're saying that it's possible the ocean floor may only exist when we are actually there?
So, by this logic, it's possible to jump from a mile high cliff and walk away without a scratch. 

i guess that would only work if you're not actually there when you hit the ground  :)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 06:14:48 pm
I refer you to the first post of this very thread....
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 24, 2007, 06:16:16 pm
I think we're starting to stray into Cartoon Laws of Physics territory ITT.   :D
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on May 24, 2007, 06:17:55 pm
um, but if someone hits you with a barstool and you somehow manage to not be actually there when the barstool is supposed to hit, you won't be hit either.

in laymans terms we call this "to duck".

is a bit harder to pull off when jumping off a cliff though ;-)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mangrove on May 24, 2007, 06:20:29 pm
LMNO - sorry to backtrack. Can you elaborate more on the 'removing the observer' bit? I'd like to hear more about that.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on May 24, 2007, 06:23:23 pm
ah yeah, i was wondeirng about that as well
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 06:32:52 pm
Clumsily put, what Einstein realized is that in newtonian physics, when you measure something, the perspective (i.e. location and velocity in space-time) of the person measuring will affect the measurement.  The Theory of Special Relativity essentially gives a way you can accurately measure something regardless of your location or velocity.

That is, he was able to remove the observer.

This is only one example.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mangrove on May 24, 2007, 06:37:45 pm
Clumsily put, what Einstein realized is that in newtonian physics, when you measure something, the perspective (i.e. location and velocity in space-time) of the person measuring will affect the measurement.  The Theory of Special Relativity essentially gives a way you can accurately measure something regardless of your location or velocity.

That is, he was able to remove the observer.

This is only one example.

Thanks. (I think)  :lol:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 07:00:44 pm
If you're curious, I could describe it more, but it's basically:

Newton's Second Law didn't account for the speed of light being a constant.  This affected the measuring of things due to the observer.

Einstien found a way to measure them that emilinated the observer and factored in the constant speed of light.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 08:22:05 pm
Hey, what happend to that pic about the barstool hitting the scientist and the preacher alike?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 24, 2007, 08:45:53 pm
That was 000's if memory serves.  Was that ever posted here?  I know it was on the other place that went kerplooey.  In any event, I have it on my home pc, I'll post it here tomorrow if no-one finds it before me. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Fuzzymike on May 24, 2007, 09:08:31 pm
Rev. What's-His-Name?
 
So a 0-2 yr old whos parents are kind and nurturing and giving would have the same foundation to build on as a 0-2 yr old who's parents were hateful and neglectful and cruel. I find it hard to believe that under those circumstances the parents could fail to have an impact. Yes those years are mainly about learning about the world but the world is more than just what you can touch, smell, see, and hear. If you had read to your child the principia discordia at such an early age, no she would not have grasped the ideas you were reading to her but she would grasp the idea of "My parents like me and are willing to pay attention and spend time with me." Which in the end can have a more profound impact then smacking her with 5 tons of flax.  :) It's the foundation that ideas and beleifs are built on that develop at that early age.

As for our elders perpetrating the illusion, they have no choice, they teach as they were taught(sp) and cannot really be held accountable. I was using that as an example. But the end result right or wrong is one and the same, the ones who come before teach the ones who come after. whether the lesson is right or wrong is for the individual to figure out.

Why do humans feel the need to teach others of the species? Do these others ask to be educated, or is it forced. I for one look back at my years of education as a form of mental rape. But thats just me.

So the barstool exists independant of my belief in it, but can it affect me if I percieve that it cannot? I for one choose to belive that no it cannot. I have the option to, as triple zero says, duck or move out of the way or shoot the ass who picked it up in the first place. Just because something exists does not mean that we have to CHOOSE to let it effect us (consciously or un).


Sorry if this post appears to bounce around a bit it was written at work with many distractions invoved.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 24, 2007, 09:18:28 pm
Fuzzymike, From an earlier post of yours:

Quote
Thats a long ass time for my parents and anyone else around me during that time to impose their will, their perceptions, their beliefs on mine. And at such a critical time when I have no defense, no way to cut out the bull shit and lies.

In your latest post you are talking about whether or not the parents "are willing to pay attention and spend time" with the child. 

I see these as two different ideas. 

I agree with the second one, in that whether or not parents choose to spend meaningful attention and time with their child does have an impact.  However, I still disagree with the premise of the first quoted statement.  That statement seems to imply parents grafting certain values and perceptions on the infant, which as I stated before, I don't believe is possible with a child that young.  An infant does not have the capacity to contemplate "bullshit and lies." 

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2007, 09:24:27 pm
Fuzzymike, From an earlier post of yours:

Quote
Thats a long ass time for my parents and anyone else around me during that time to impose their will, their perceptions, their beliefs on mine. And at such a critical time when I have no defense, no way to cut out the bull shit and lies.

In your latest post you are talking about whether or not the parents "are willing to pay attention and spend time" with the child. 

I see these as two different ideas. 

I agree with the second one, in that whether or not parents choose to spend meaningful attention and time with their child does have an impact.  However, I still disagree with the premise of the first quoted statement.  That statement seems to imply parents grafting certain values and perceptions on the infant, which as I stated before, I don't believe is possible with a child that young.  An infant does not have the capacity to contemplate "bullshit and lies." 



No but it does provide the foundation for cause and effect - stimulus and response.

That's the really deep rooted, imprinting shit that's almost impossibe to change in later life

the diff between "when I cry mommy comes" and "when I cry I get beaten"
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Fuzzymike on May 24, 2007, 09:30:59 pm
Fuzzymike, From an earlier post of yours:

Quote
Thats a long ass time for my parents and anyone else around me during that time to impose their will, their perceptions, their beliefs on mine. And at such a critical time when I have no defense, no way to cut out the bull shit and lies.

In your latest post you are talking about whether or not the parents "are willing to pay attention and spend time" with the child. 

I see these as two different ideas. 

I agree with the second one, in that whether or not parents choose to spend meaningful attention and time with their child does have an impact.  However, I still disagree with the premise of the first quoted statement.  That statement seems to imply parents grafting certain values and perceptions on the infant, which as I stated before, I don't believe is possible with a child that young.  An infant does not have the capacity to contemplate "bullshit and lies." 



No but it does provide the foundation for cause and effect - stimulus and response.

That's the really deep rooted, imprinting shit that's almost impossibe to change in later life

the diff between "when I cry mommy comes" and "when I cry I get beaten"

Thank you that is almost exactly whati was going for I just couldn't get it out that simply, being a victim of childhood myself.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on May 24, 2007, 10:38:29 pm
You will enjoy the abuse.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: hunter s.durden on May 24, 2007, 10:40:19 pm
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

The shirt I'm wearing right now says that.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on May 24, 2007, 10:41:52 pm
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

The shirt I'm wearing right now says that.

If I were wearing a shirt... it would either be black or say that.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: hunter s.durden on May 24, 2007, 10:45:17 pm
I'm gunna make you a shirt that says: Future An Hero.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on May 24, 2007, 10:52:00 pm
I have every intention of making everyone else go an hero before me.

nope, i want to stick around to the end so that I can take my revenge on those who wronged me before the planet becomes an inhospitable nuclear wasteland.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on May 25, 2007, 05:44:55 am
I want to be last so I can rest easy knowing we didn't fuck the universe up with some fangled invention that collapses dimensions.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 25, 2007, 05:47:44 am
I want to be last so I can rest easy knowing we didn't fuck the universe up with some fangled invention that collapses dimensions.

I want to collapse dimensions.

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Shit on May 25, 2007, 05:49:02 am
I want to be last so I can rest easy knowing we didn't fuck the universe up with some fangled invention that collapses dimensions.

I want to collapse dimensions.


And all I came for was a beer...
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on May 25, 2007, 05:49:30 am
Screw up a skateboarding trick.  Admittedly, the only dimensions you'll collapse are your own...but its a start.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 25, 2007, 01:08:10 pm
So the barstool exists independant of my belief in it, but can it affect me if I percieve that it cannot? I for one choose to belive that no it cannot. I have the option to, as triple zero says, duck or move out of the way or shoot the ass who picked it up in the first place. Just because something exists does not mean that we have to CHOOSE to let it effect us (consciously or un).

If you duck or move out of the way, that indicates that, yes indeed, you do believe in the barstools existence.

You moved from "belief that the barstool exists" to "belief that the barstool will hurt me", which are two completely different things.

The issue wasn't if the barstool will affect you or not.  The issue was it's existence in external reality.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 25, 2007, 02:43:43 pm
Fuzzymike, From an earlier post of yours:

Quote
Thats a long ass time for my parents and anyone else around me during that time to impose their will, their perceptions, their beliefs on mine. And at such a critical time when I have no defense, no way to cut out the bull shit and lies.

In your latest post you are talking about whether or not the parents "are willing to pay attention and spend time" with the child. 

I see these as two different ideas. 

I agree with the second one, in that whether or not parents choose to spend meaningful attention and time with their child does have an impact.  However, I still disagree with the premise of the first quoted statement.  That statement seems to imply parents grafting certain values and perceptions on the infant, which as I stated before, I don't believe is possible with a child that young.  An infant does not have the capacity to contemplate "bullshit and lies." 



No but it does provide the foundation for cause and effect - stimulus and response.

That's the really deep rooted, imprinting shit that's almost impossibe to change in later life

the diff between "when I cry mommy comes" and "when I cry I get beaten"

See, now you are straying into "I did it because my parent's sucked" territory.  Sure, parents can be neglectful, make mistakes, etc., etc., but that doesn't doom you for life.  It does if you want it to and if you don't want to invest in yourself.  I've known plenty of people who had miserable childhoods that were able to leave that behind.  Sure, I think there are cases where it is so bad that a child can be damaged beyond repair.  However, fuzzymike seems to suggest that it is an epidemic and that all parents are intentionally or unintentionally brainwashing their kids with "perceptions" and "bullshit and lies."  I think that's bullshit. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Discord on May 25, 2007, 02:59:07 pm
nope i think is right, to some extend.
your parents give you the basics of how you think, its the basic brainwash.
Some ppl, around the age of 16, start to do, believe and think the exact opposite of the parents, which is exactly the same brainwash shit.
Others fall for the machines brainwash (and / or the parents) and then there are only a few ppl who break the chains and start thinking for themselves.
"Dont think for yourself, its just troublesome" seems to be the standard for humans.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 25, 2007, 03:14:13 pm
to some extent, yes.  but this is vastly different then a sweeping generalization that ALL kids are being brainwashed by their parents.  Not all child rearing is brainwashing.  There is a distinction between brainwashing and guiding a child.  It is necessary to guide a child because he or she doesn't have the mental faculties to go out into the world and survive as an infant or toddler. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 25, 2007, 03:15:34 pm
Well, to be honest, "brainwashing" is something other people do.

I don't "brainwash" people, I "show them the right way to think about things."






LMNO
-hopes you get the point.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cramulus on May 25, 2007, 03:16:15 pm
 :lulz:
I SEE WHAT YUO DID THERE
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 25, 2007, 03:24:18 pm
I understand what you are saying.  But there is a distinction when it comes to children.  A parent has a biological imperative to ensure the child's survival.  Posting stuff on the internet or talking to adult friends about philosophy, etc. is a different ball game.  There's no way for a parent to be 100% hands off.  If someone has found a way to do that, you should start writing your book today, you'll be a billionaire. 

But I think that recognizing that is not the same thing as saying "all kids are being brainwashed" or "fed bullshit and lies."  Yes, some good intentions have the potential to become "brainwashing."  But, by that same token, bad intents can end up being learning opportunities for later in life.  If it were true that we were all being "fed bullshit and lies", etc., this place wouldn't exist.  Or are we the lucky few special ones who figured it out, got the golden ticket of enlightenment and EVERYONE else is screwed up.  Yeah, I believe there are a lot of aimless people out there.  I just don't buy into this gloomy gus/doom shit like fuzzymike is talking about. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Discord on May 25, 2007, 05:09:04 pm
Well it depends on how ur definition for "brainwash" and "guiding" is.

Guiding = helping them to show the way?
In that case its not possible to guide a kid, since its knowledge is insufficient (also depending what age this kid is)

brainwashing = forcing ur own opinion on someone else without physical force.
In that case every child is brainwashed either you want it or not. Kids tend to imitate their parents, not only their actions but also their way of thinking.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 25, 2007, 05:29:19 pm
Well it depends on how ur definition for "brainwash" and "guiding" is.

Guiding = helping them to show the way?
In that case its not possible to guide a kid, since its knowledge is insufficient (also depending what age this kid is)

brainwashing = forcing ur own opinion on someone else without physical force.
In that case every child is brainwashed either you want it or not. Kids tend to imitate their parents, not only their actions but also their way of thinking.

You do realise that you contradicted yourself in this post right?  A child's knowledge is insufficient for guidance but perfectly sufficient to understand "brainwashing" communications. 

Further, can you provide evidence for the bolded assertion?

Furtherer, to recap.  Fuzzymike was talking about how infants are brainwashed from the age of 0-2 or 3.  This being based on his experience of not remembering anything before the age of 2.  How they are "fed bullshit and lies."  (Sorry, I'm gonna keep using this one until fuzzymike decides to address it). 

My assertion being, as you say, a child's knowledge is insufficient to contemplate such things.  Now, when I talk about guidance, at those early years you are really focusing on the basics.  How to eat, how to walk, how to talk, hot vs. cold, things a child needs in order to survive and be comfortable in day to day life.  Guidance isn't sitting a one year old and explaining "the way" to him.  Obviously, that's a ludicrous idea.  Yes, a parents love and affection, or lack thereof has an impact on a child.  But that is different, then instilling philosophies, values, "the way" in that child. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 25, 2007, 06:28:33 pm
I don't think Fuzzy is coming back.

I also would like to point out that the bolded above is exactly what my point was.

Yes, "brainwashing" has a negative connotation, but when you break it down, isn't it simply using coercive techniques to get a person to think like you want them to?

And isn't that what a large part of child rearing is?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 25, 2007, 06:58:42 pm
Yes, "brainwashing" has a negative connotation, but when you break it down, isn't it simply using coercive techniques to get a person to think like you want them to?

Yes.  I don't disagree with this at all.

Quote
And isn't that what a large part of child rearing is?

Sometimes yes sometimes no.  Depends on the parents and the situation.  There are some instances where you obviously want the child to think like you.  For example, I want my daughter to think as I do that jumping off of the roof of a house is probably hazardous to ones health.  So yes, if my daughter started to climb the house saying she was going to leap off of the roof, I would employ some coercive techniques to convincer her that was a bad idea.  But, this is for her safety. 

"Aha!" one might say, "But someone instilling [insert religion/philosophy] values in a child is thinking the same thing.  Keeping them safe from [insert religious/philosophical doom]."  Yes, this can be considered brainwashing of course. 

However, I maintain that outside of what I would call the "no-brainers" of physical safety and security, it isn't necessary to engage in coercive techniques to raise a child.  It is possible to keep a child safe in that manner, yet, still allow her the freedom to become her own person.  Will she learn things from me and my wife, as far as behavior, etc. of course.  She may decide she wants to hold her spoon the same way Daddy does when he eats his cereal.  She may decide that her Mother makes a silly face that she wants to make too.  Is that brainwashing?  Is that "coercive techniques"?  I don't think so. 

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jenne on May 25, 2007, 07:06:35 pm
Of course I coerce my kids to do shit.  How else would I get them to do things they should do or I need them to do when they don't wanna?  My kids are 169% asshats at the best of times, so a little arm-pulling is necessary.  And I'm shameless when it comes to that shit, believe me.  I'll take a dollar away from them (this technique works much better than shouting or hitting, because it gets them where it HURTS!) if they slip up consistently enough.  My definition of slipping up is very lenient, but still, kids do need to learn boundaries and limits.  I've seen adults who were never taught this--they are fuckfaces and how.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Discord on May 25, 2007, 08:31:46 pm
It doesnt matter what you call it, fact is, you ARE brainwashing / guiding ... ur children. as U pointed out, sometimes u do it on porpose, sometimes (prbly more often) u dont even notice it.
The 2 year old girl / boy does not hold the spoon like daddy because she THINKS it is right or because she likes daddy so much.  she/he does it because its the only person she can imitate properly.
Is that brainwashing?
I say yes, but it has no negative aspects, actually it is necessary.
U might want to use the term "guidance" here because it is necessary.
Still, the point im trying to make is:
Ppl shouldnt bother about if they are brainwashing their children, since they will do it.
Its just important to keep in mind that U are doing it, and teaching the child to think for their own, even if it is a pain in the ass.
HOW to achieve that, i dont know.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 25, 2007, 08:55:11 pm
Ugh, I'll have to return to this after the weekend.  Needless to say I still think you're off but I don't have time to get into it right now.  For later then...
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Darth Cupcake on May 25, 2007, 08:56:46 pm
Jenne--I salute you for actually parenting.

Discord--please to be employing Y and O key. I might be the only one here who finds it difficult to take someone seriously when they are being addressed as "U," in which case I'll shush up. But ow. I am fairly certain you made good points, but I will get back to you on that.

RWHN--You bring up "for the child's safety" and "brainwashing." I completely agree with what you've said, but I just want to bring this up purely for the sake of bringing it up. In the case of many religious parents (such as my aunt and uncle, for example) they think that what they are indoctrinating into their children IS for that child's mortal safety, just as much as teaching them not to jump off the roof is, perhaps even more so. I personally think that's dumb. But how do you determine where the line is drawn? How do you determine when something is actually for the child's safety or if it's simply your own biases coming into play? What's "good" for a kid is so damn subjective.

Of course, I am a prick and will gladly pass judgment on religious people raising their kids as drones, even though I have no children of my own. But we all need our own little foibles, I suppose.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 25, 2007, 08:57:50 pm


Discord--please to be employing Y and O key.



:mittens::mittens::mittens::mittens::mittens::mittens::mittens::mittens:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Payne on May 25, 2007, 09:00:01 pm
I stole Discords "y" and "o", so that I could write "Yo, Sup?" in chat rooms and IM's with greater efficiency,

Please return to your regularly scheduled entertainments,
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jenne on May 25, 2007, 09:37:58 pm
It doesnt matter what you call it, fact is, you ARE brainwashing / guiding ... ur children. as U pointed out, sometimes u do it on porpose, sometimes (prbly more often) u dont even notice it.
The 2 year old girl / boy does not hold the spoon like daddy because she THINKS it is right or because she likes daddy so much.  she/he does it because its the only person she can imitate properly.
Is that brainwashing?
I say yes, but it has no negative aspects, actually it is necessary.
U might want to use the term "guidance" here because it is necessary.
Still, the point im trying to make is:
Ppl shouldnt bother about if they are brainwashing their children, since they will do it.
Its just important to keep in mind that U are doing it, and teaching the child to think for their own, even if it is a pain in the ass.
HOW to achieve that, i dont know.

Actually, children think on their own all the time.  You don't have to teach a child to be selfish, they come out of the womb that way.

Also, primates MIMIC social behaviors most times, to the point where some cultures don't even overtly parent/rear a child, just expect it to do everything by imitation.  Actual mental and physical coercion varies greatly from sub/culture to sub/culture.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jenne on May 25, 2007, 09:41:08 pm
Jenne--I salute you for actually parenting.

Discord--please to be employing Y and O key. I might be the only one here who finds it difficult to take someone seriously when they are being addressed as "U," in which case I'll shush up. But ow. I am fairly certain you made good points, but I will get back to you on that.

RWHN--You bring up "for the child's safety" and "brainwashing." I completely agree with what you've said, but I just want to bring this up purely for the sake of bringing it up. In the case of many religious parents (such as my aunt and uncle, for example) they think that what they are indoctrinating into their children IS for that child's mortal safety, just as much as teaching them not to jump off the roof is, perhaps even more so. I personally think that's dumb. But how do you determine where the line is drawn? How do you determine when something is actually for the child's safety or if it's simply your own biases coming into play? What's "good" for a kid is so damn subjective.

Of course, I am a prick and will gladly pass judgment on religious people raising their kids as drones, even though I have no children of my own. But we all need our own little foibles, I suppose.

Hey, thanks.  I think I need to work on being that "happy medium" mom where I'm neither bitchy nor ubertehcooltotehmax...but then I think my problems as a parent are my problems as a person.  *shrug*

As to your point about religious people, I think you're 100% spot-on.  And yeah, it's easy as an outsider to judge, but we all do it.  It's just a fact of life, doesn't necessarily make us pricks until we abuse people over it.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on May 26, 2007, 12:55:26 am
since someone asked ..

(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/05136/double_barstool_action.png)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on May 26, 2007, 01:00:26 pm
Two wealthy snobs were talking in a bar.  Both of them were in fetish attire.

"So, you see that barstool over there.  The atoms are so far apart that it can't hurt you because it's mostly empty space."

"Actually, how do we not know we are not imagining it to exist based on impulses to our optic nerve?"

At that point, the barstool bitchslaps both of them on command of its Master.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on May 27, 2007, 01:29:35 am
You just wanted to insert fetish attire into it.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on May 27, 2007, 02:02:19 am
You just wanted to insert fetish attire into it.

That and forniphilia with bratty subs.

The implication is that they're using submissives as barstools.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on May 27, 2007, 02:07:07 am
Such a rich and nuanced subculture.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on May 27, 2007, 02:12:13 am
Would you like pictures?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on May 27, 2007, 02:33:01 am
Have em.  SG FTW.

Added:  Even if it is softcore.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on May 27, 2007, 02:36:11 am
I was thinking more along the lines of House of Gord.

That guy is a genius.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on May 27, 2007, 02:41:05 am
I had some plans along those lines eventually, but I'm sticking with what I know until Rev. Michal's up to speed.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on June 08, 2007, 04:08:30 am
ok here we go.

"lookey here mam... my points are that not only does things we look at sometimes seem unreal, but also our very own existence. "

i mean by this that i do not know for certain that anything exists. that means that i do not know for certain that i myself exist. that is why i chose to make the barstool sapient and sentient. the barstool is a metaphor for all matter as i understand it, both selfconscious and not. in short: in that i am uncertain of everything, i identify myself with the barstool. note that i identify myself with all the basic elements of the parable.

"and if i can think like that, i can certantly not have bill and joe becomming pretentious assholes because i would be one myself..."

i do not think that bill and joe are pretentious assholes. i agree with what they are both saying and if they deserve a beatdown so do i.
if i dont think that they are pretentious assholes in any of the stories then i would be equally surprised if i heard them being called just that in either of the stories.

what i meant by the whole "greatest way to kill me" "come be one of us" rant was that it  seemed to me that i was beeing hated upon by silly silly sillycybin. i did not like that nor did i understand it because the purpose seemed to be to shut me up or test my gusto. i doubt it was the latter but i included it in my advise to ignore someone if what they say is worthless anyway.

and now for lmno.

1. i believe i answered that above.

2.  pretty good. fuck pragmatism in a very secret place. but yeah i did that didnt i... sigh.

3. How would two assholes be enlightened after being hit by a non-sentient barstool?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on June 10, 2007, 12:16:22 pm
lol
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Doktor Loki on June 11, 2007, 04:03:55 am
-snip-
1. i believe i answered that above.

2.  pretty good. fuck pragmatism in a very secret place. but yeah i did that didnt i... sigh.

3. How would two assholes be enlightened after being hit by a non-sentient barstool?

fuck pragmatism?  lol.

as for #3, you've never been hit with a barstool whilst having a solopsist conversation, then, I take it?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 11, 2007, 04:08:35 am

3. How would two assholes be enlightened after being hit by a non-sentient barstool?

You would be amazed at what applying hardwood to someone's head can do for their outlook on life.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on June 11, 2007, 04:19:23 am
Hitting people is great.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 11, 2007, 04:26:24 am
Hitting people is great.

 :)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on June 11, 2007, 05:15:35 am
Don't smile at me like that, it bothers me. :?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 11, 2007, 05:56:53 am
Don't smile at me like that, it bothers me. :?

Yeah, that gif IS kinda fucking creepy.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on June 11, 2007, 12:20:43 pm
has any of you ever been hit with a barstool whilst having a solopsist conversation?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 11, 2007, 01:33:51 pm
No, but I have gotten stomped by a steel-toed boot while being a snobby intellectual.


Does that count?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on June 11, 2007, 02:10:54 pm
has any of you ever been hit with a barstool whilst having a solopsist conversation?

No.  I was holding the barstool.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 11, 2007, 03:32:50 pm
You wouldn't have been wearing steel-toed boots, would you?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on June 11, 2007, 03:44:42 pm
No.

My toe-caps are hidden in my trainers.  Aluminium too, so they don't weigh as much and I can run away quickly afterwards.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Discord on June 12, 2007, 09:40:17 pm
No.

My toe-caps are hidden in my trainers.  Aluminium too, so they don't weigh as much and I can run away quickly afterwards.

Cain,
is the one who does the thinking.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on June 14, 2007, 02:11:41 pm
:thanks:

I think I saw trainers like those linked on here, actually.  Ages ago.  I was like "fuck yeah, getting me some of those".

Mainly because when I saw them, I was still doing bo staff practice and mine was extra long and kept stubbing my feet.  :cry:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Wrecked Fred on June 20, 2007, 06:15:52 pm
Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.

That's the real thing, right there.  It beats the hell out of that esoteric crap down in the Black Iron Prison.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 20, 2007, 06:17:39 pm
Heh.  Would it surprise you to know that most people around here embrace both?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Wrecked Fred on June 20, 2007, 06:21:10 pm
Heh.  Would it surprise you to know that most people around here embrace both?

Not really, sir.  Very little surprises me anymore.

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: That One Guy on July 29, 2007, 11:07:49 pm
The barstool experiment in action - from the Past! (March 30, 1906 according to the site)

(http://www.barnaclepress.com/cmcvlt/OutburstsOfEverettTrue/oet060330.jpg)

Check out the rest of the cartoons from this series there. (http://www.barnaclepress.com/comics/archives/comedy/outbursts_of_everett_true/index.html) It's like TGRR found a time machine and became the inspiration for a cartoon.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: B_M_W on July 30, 2007, 02:24:42 am
 :lulz:

Also, most of the shit you find in any religion is esoteric bullshit. That doesn't mean its not useful as well.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on October 03, 2007, 10:38:43 pm
Yeah!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: SuuCal on November 04, 2007, 03:31:04 pm
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lHidSyNF5-c
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on December 14, 2007, 01:21:23 pm
Revision:  Comments welcome.

Once upon a time, two Serious Minded people were in their local pub, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

Bill pointed out that most of what we consider ‚matter‚ is made up of empty space.  ‚The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!‚

Joe responded, ‚but wait‚Ķ As far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nerves.  And all they are doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object.  But what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often?  So, we can‚t really say whether or not the barstool even exists!‚

Just then, a man approached them and said, ‚I couldn‚t help but overhear you two talking.  If I may, I have an experiment for you.  Purely in the interest of a Deeper Understanding of the Universe.‚

He then proceeded to pick up the barstool and pummel both Bill and Joe squarely about the head and torso, because they were so obviouly pretentious assholes who deserved a beatdown.

Thus, they were enlightened.

bumpquote for asking LMNO if he could please edit and fix the quotes (they got mangled in some unicode conversion of a boardmove somewhere)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 14, 2007, 01:40:14 pm
Revision:  Comments welcome.

Once upon a time, two Serious Minded people were in their local pub, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

Bill pointed out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space.  "The distance between a nucleus, its electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!"

Joe responded, "But wait-- As far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nerves.  And all they are doing is claiming certain wavelengths of light have bounced off an object.  But what if the nerves are misfiring, which we all know happen quite often?  So, we can't really say whether or not the barstool even exists!"

Just then, a man approached them and said, "I couldn't help but overhear you two talking.  If I may, I have an experiment for you.  Purely in the interest of a Deeper Understanding of the Universe, of course."

He then proceeded to pick up the barstool and pummel both Bill and Joe squarely about the head and torso, because they were so obviouly pretentious assholes who deserved a beatdown.

Thus, they were enlightened.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: East Coast Hustle on December 14, 2007, 01:51:19 pm
too wordy, but I like it.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 14, 2007, 01:52:49 pm
I am one verbose motherfucker.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: East Coast Hustle on December 14, 2007, 01:54:23 pm
you are a flowing fountain of grandiose eloquence.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 14, 2007, 01:55:30 pm
Like Tubgirl, but with words.













Speaking of which, why don't we have the tubgirl smiley?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: East Coast Hustle on December 14, 2007, 02:00:11 pm
I dunno.

I'm pretty much an absentee slumlord at this point.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 14, 2007, 02:01:42 pm
BTW, we have rats the size of Great Danes in the basement.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: East Coast Hustle on December 14, 2007, 02:04:02 pm
I know.

ECH,
has pet rats IRL too
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: saint aini on December 14, 2007, 08:08:55 pm
Don't we also have cats the size of girls?



Or was it girls who think they are cats?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 14, 2007, 08:10:33 pm
Just stop.


Please.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on December 14, 2007, 08:15:49 pm
One fine Maine evening, rife with the buzzing of mosquitos and the nearby substation, Chuck and I decided to put in an appearance at Joe's Hole In The Wall to enjoy our favourite spirits.

It came to be that we once again were discussing the finer, and duller, points of the universe and existence.  It was much more appealing than watching the Bruins, yet again, implode upon the TV hanging from the ceiling next to the moose carcass.

Meanwhile a couple of chaps down the bar are also embroiled in their own deep discussion.  

"No man, I'm telling you there's a purple monkey right there on your shoulder"  one shouted.

"Dude, there isn't any stinking monkey on my shoulder.  That's just your 12th Rolling Rock talking." replied the other.

At which point Chuck and I had to interject.

"Excuse me my friend.  But what has you so convinced that there is not a purple monkey on your shoulder?"  Chuck asked.

"I ain't your friend freako!  And besides I don't see any monkey here on my shoulder.  You think I'd notice something like that."

"You assume it's your friend's drunken hallucination that is creating the purple monkey in his mind.  Has it ever occurred to you that it may be your drunken hallucination that is cloaking this very real purple monkey that is now urinating on your red flannel shirt?"  I asked of the man.

"I'm telling you man.  He's right there and this dude's right.  He's pissing all over your new shirt man."

"Here," I said.  And I handed him a book and a knife.  "Here's all that you need to see that which you cannot see."

And, as predicted, he proceeded to stab himself in the shoulder.

No one was particularily enlightened and Chuck and I were yet again banned from another bar.

The End.

I had to fix mine as well.  The Red Sox don't suck ass anymore so I had to change it to the Bruins. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 19, 2007, 10:45:38 am
I still can't see why those poor guys had to be beaten with a barstool.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 19, 2007, 01:20:28 pm
srsly?



Ok, I'll break the Barstool Experiment down for you in the most basic possible terms.



The moral of the story is: Don't get caught up in your rhetoric and flights of intellectual fantasy so much that you forget about what's going on around you.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on December 19, 2007, 01:41:04 pm
Or we'll beat the crap out of you.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 19, 2007, 01:45:07 pm
Yeah!
  \
(http://thelegendaryoxbaker.com/images/03.jpg)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cramulus on December 19, 2007, 03:24:04 pm
Big tough guys have the intellectual market cornered.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: East Coast Hustle on December 19, 2007, 09:29:58 pm
Yeah!
  \
(http://thelegendaryoxbaker.com/images/03.jpg)

I didn't give you permission to use my likeness.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 20, 2007, 07:50:20 am
srsly?



Ok, I'll break the Barstool Experiment down for you in the most basic possible terms.



The moral of the story is: Don't get caught up in your rhetoric and flights of intellectual fantasy so much that you forget about what's going on around you.

I'm aware of the downsides in getting stuck in semantics. I meant that the "punchline" in the end of the story made me feel like i've just talked to someone trying to shrug off their train of tought with some butch joke that contour ther distance to thinking, cause thinkers are gay and get beat up. :P  It's a tiger story, and i just felt sympaty for the poor philosophers.

But perhaps this is a more butch version of "the hand that points to the moon" story.
Exept that the barstool guy kept his previous concepts of his reality tunnel, and the philosophers who were trying to broaden their perception got punished.

It is easy to pick the winning side when the narrative favours it, but if we can see this barstool experiment in an unbiased perspective, it resemble many of the problems we have today.
YOU BIG POL POT! :O :D BEAT THE INTELLECTUALS!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 20, 2007, 07:54:36 am
The moral of the story is: Don't get caught up in your rhetoric and flights of intellectual fantasy so much that you forget about what's going on around you.

I just love being a dick :(
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 20, 2007, 12:59:46 pm
I don't see how smacking some self-important prick with a barstool is any different than a Zen Master whacking a n00b with his staff.


Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on December 20, 2007, 01:01:51 pm
You can have a beer first.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on December 20, 2007, 01:55:13 pm
true.  pwns the hell out of some burning sage
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 20, 2007, 02:13:34 pm
Good point.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 20, 2007, 08:30:10 pm
I don't see how smacking some self-important prick with a barstool is any different than a Zen Master whacking a n00b with his staff.

I think the motives might differ but i would have to ask the barstool guy, besides, what's wrong with being pretentious?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 20, 2007, 08:36:32 pm
I don't see how smacking some self-important prick with a barstool is any different than a Zen Master whacking a n00b with his staff.

I think the motives might differ but i would have to ask the barstool guy, besides, what's wrong with being pretentious?


Well, for starters it encourages people to smack you with a barstool.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on December 20, 2007, 08:37:58 pm
I don't see how smacking some self-important prick with a barstool is any different than a Zen Master whacking a n00b with his staff.

The noob is seeking Enlightenment. The noob has approached the Master and asked to be enlightened. The noob has been initiated into a system through which he will be taught a particular set of memes, models and metaphors and the Master has particular tools available to teach this to the noob, including a staff to the head.

The Self-Important Philosopher believes that he is enlightened. He has asked the Barstool Wielder for nothing (but has imposed his 'enlightenment'), he hasn't been initiated into the system used by the barstool wielder, thus the whack to the head will likely do nothing more than give him a lump and a potential lawsuit.

Both individuals may need the Boot To The Head (or stick or barstool) but the reasons and outcomes seem wildly different to me.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 20, 2007, 08:40:29 pm
Ok, I can see what you're saying.

I guess I was just coming from the "violence as object lesson" POV.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 20, 2007, 08:52:57 pm
Yeah, but so is being ugly.
So is calling the name of Satan in a (bar)church
Even hitting people with barstools encourage people to smack you with barstools.

But seriously, the pretentious bastards seemed to be the only "neophiles" in the story.
Say whatever about sticking to your own BS, but they just couldnt have been BORN with the ideas they were discussing, and whatever if their beliefs are irrelevent, cause they wery well might be, the BarStool man totally stuck to his BS and BS'd the S out of those poor guys.

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 20, 2007, 08:53:57 pm
Ever hear of a "parable"?



You're dangerously close to eating the menu.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 20, 2007, 08:59:36 pm
Maybe i am, i guess i wouldn't know myself if i did. pun intended.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on December 20, 2007, 09:02:44 pm
Ever hear of a "parable"?



You're dangerously close to eating the menu.

Is it a parable, or hyperbolic illustration? Inquiring English Teachers want to know....
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Chairman Risus on December 20, 2007, 09:44:11 pm
Maybe i am, i guess i wouldn't know myself if i did. pun intended.

I don't get it.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on December 20, 2007, 09:50:52 pm
Maybe i am, i guess i wouldn't know myself if i did. pun intended.

I don't get it.

Pssst, Keeper:

(Know myself - as in "I don't know" and "I know who I am")
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on December 21, 2007, 12:06:03 am
We bring enlightenment regardless or not if you decided to seek it out.  Its kind of like the Bush doctrine, only with somewhat smaller civilian death tolls.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on December 21, 2007, 09:37:41 am
do these two pretentious assholes really see themselves as being enlightened?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 21, 2007, 12:53:06 pm
You mean Cain and Rat?  Probably.

Heh.  I keed, I keed.



Anyway, for an honest answer, and because I have time:


Kusa:  I can see your point about how it seems that the two thinkers at the bar might be the only two neophiles in the bar, but I think what the parable/hyperbolic illustration* is getting at is the following:

What's the point of opening yourself up to flights of intellectual whimsey if it ends up with you drawing firm conclusions about a world that doesn't match the one you're actually living in?

If a person spends their lives living in a rich fantasy life that doesn't have at least some ties to consensus, experiential reality, then it is almost certain that one day, the barstool will fall.

So, who does this apply to?  Almost everyone.  Priests, witches, politicians, educators, philosophers, junkies, artists, drunks, republicans, dictators, junkies, democrats, "soft" scientists, libertarians, "hard" scientists, marxists...  You get the picture. 

It's not about how far outside the box you can think, it's about how your thinking actually affects the solid world in which you live.



Srsly.


























*Rat:  It's both.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on December 21, 2007, 01:04:15 pm
Sense of humour malfunction ITT
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 21, 2007, 01:45:14 pm
REBOOT!  REBOOT!



 :barstool:
 :barstool:
 :barstool:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on December 21, 2007, 02:05:14 pm
when one gets too wrapped up in their voyage, they tend to go off course and get lost. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on December 21, 2007, 03:57:42 pm
So, who does this apply to?  Almost everyone.  Priests, witches, politicians, educators, philosophers, junkies, artists, drunks, republicans, dictators, junkies, democrats, "soft" scientists, libertarians, "hard" scientists, marxists...  You get the picture. 

It's not about how far outside the box you can think, it's about how your thinking actually affects the solid world in which you live.

Yep, I tend to see it as a violent rendition of responding to the Cosmic Schmuck Principle. Everyone is occasionally a Cosmic Schmuck and sometimes a metaphysical barstool is just what is needed to remind the Cosmic Schmuck that they indeed acting like a Cosmic Schmuck.

Quote
*Rat:  It's both.

LOL and a metaphysical metaphor to boot.  :fnord:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 21, 2007, 04:44:44 pm
HAHA, made you rant! :(

What's the point of opening yourself up to flights of intellectual whimsey if it ends up with you drawing firm conclusions about a world that doesn't match the one you're actually living in?

There were no firm conclusions in the story as i understood it. besides, i believe that all firm conclusions about any world or about anything does not match reality at all, and if it does it is purely by accident. All the things we see, touch or sense in any way might just our body making a suggestion to our brains that reacts in the manner it has been conditioned to react.

Or: fuckitidontknow :(  <-- The only honest words i've ever spoke. beat me with a chair and i suppose it hurts...
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on December 22, 2007, 01:03:06 am
it seems to me, now, that the people who object the most to this story are the ones who have the least experience with reality.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on December 22, 2007, 02:46:39 am
HAHA, made you rant! :(

What's the point of opening yourself up to flights of intellectual whimsey if it ends up with you drawing firm conclusions about a world that doesn't match the one you're actually living in?

There were no firm conclusions in the story as i understood it. besides, i believe that all firm conclusions about any world or about anything does not match reality at all, and if it does it is purely by accident. All the things we see, touch or sense in any way might just our body making a suggestion to our brains that reacts in the manner it has been conditioned to react.

Or: fuckitidontknow :(  <-- The only honest words i've ever spoke. beat me with a chair and i suppose it hurts...

If thats the case however, why does it matter?  You cannot step outside your own senses in order to verify your own experiences, so endless navel-gazing speculation is a waste of time, because you will never come to a satisfactory conclusion, unless you accept that at some point along the line what you are sensing at least seems to have a basis in reality.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on December 22, 2007, 11:45:27 am
indeed

as a thought-experiment, let's assume the opposite: at no point along the line what you are sensing has any basis in reality.

lol

if that would be reality, it's fucking useless and i want nothing to do with it

if it doesnt even have the simple decency to form a basis for my senses, i'm gonna give that so-called reality all the consideration it's due
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 22, 2007, 06:05:56 pm

If thats the case however, why does it matter?  You cannot step outside your own senses in order to verify your own experiences, so endless navel-gazing speculation is a waste of time, because you will never come to a satisfactory conclusion, unless you accept that at some point along the line what you are sensing at least seems to have a basis in reality.

I don't believe in conclusions, i dont believe in meaning and i dont feel sad about it. :P
Besides, whatever i experience is reality, but what i make of it, and my preconceptions about everything is useless and incorrect. I have no idea of what is going on.
But i presume that i percieve. And, like, whatever... To answer your question: For me, it doesnt matter, the barstool might not exist in the way we percieve it, and i dont know if it is reality i see, or my concept of a barstool. So who cares if solid objects can cause destruction if energy is applied? is it not way cool that the solid object may not be solid, or maybe even dont exist, but still have the ability to rearrange limbs.

Aw fuck, i dont know what i'm saying anymore, or why this post ended up to be about me.
Ill post it anyway.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 22, 2007, 06:10:03 pm
indeed

as a thought-experiment, let's assume the opposite: at no point along the line what you are sensing has any basis in reality.

lol

if that would be reality, it's fucking useless and i want nothing to do with it

if it doesnt even have the simple decency to form a basis for my senses, i'm gonna give that so-called reality all the consideration it's due

The only way you can percieve the world is trought your concepts, and even if you create theese concept or they are just induction. what you choose to believe is your reality.
So yes it is fucking useless, but cool. SO JUST LET GO!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 22, 2007, 06:17:03 pm
Ok, i'm really sorry.

What i'm trying to say is that reality might be way bigger than our means of percieving it.

Now i'll shut the fuck up for a while.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Chairman Risus on December 22, 2007, 07:29:53 pm
Ok, i'm really sorry.

What i'm trying to say is that reality might be way bigger than our means of percieving it.

Now i'll shut the fuck up for a while.

So how does it matter?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kusa on December 23, 2007, 08:10:01 pm
It doesnt, my previous post were insane ravings.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on December 29, 2007, 11:20:47 pm
What i'm trying to say is that reality might be way bigger than our means of percieving it.

of course it's bigger.

i KNOW it's bigger.

damn that's really big.

so big that all of the stuff you know about might just as well not even be really there in comparison

loving it! :)

you can sort of tell by the fact that every time you break out of prison you never reach the end Boss
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: MonkeyMind on December 31, 2007, 09:31:48 am
i think all loose ends could be easily tiddied up by a barstool in its drunken stooper having this very same conversation with its shadow, then proceeds the oblivious fat man to sit on it to solidify the point.



stayed up till 3:30am reading this whole damn thread just to post that..
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on December 31, 2007, 12:44:16 pm
What i'm trying to say is that reality might be way bigger than our means of percieving it.


Please to see the Black Iron Prison pamphlet, pages 15-16.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Politician168023 on February 06, 2008, 10:47:22 am
Hm. The barstool Experiment is a good one, but it's also somewhat limited. The discussion of the barstool seems to be based on only one sense, the sense of sight. Obviously the sense of sight is greatly effected by the way that the brain processes visual information. And IMO our 5 senses should not be called senses, but sensory receptors.

But before I stray from the point too much, the "intellectuals" in the conversation have got a point, but its a limited one. They forgot to incorporate their "sense" of touch into the theory.

Seeing is believing for some people, probably the person who smashes the barstool over their heads is one of those people.

There are many sensory receptors, but only one 'sense'. ;)


And would someone please help me to make this funnier (lol) :-

Joe says, most of what we consider descriptive communication is made up of empty space, the distance  between a noun, its verb and the nearest adjacent adjective is comparitavely ambiguous; why that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered "tall" "wooden" "brown" "solid" "hard".

Billy responds by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a "ladder" or a
"work of art", for we are not actually seeing the barstool, we are seeing 'something' which has been described to us as a barstool in a particular language, by a particular propagandist, using particular relationships and 'facts' and 'distances' of his or her own choice or preconception.

Marshal arrives on the scene carrying a barstool and smashes them both over the head and says "I don't know who discovered language but it probably wasnt you".

I'm new here =) I don't want you to go easy on me, but please don't take me/life too seriously eh xD
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on February 06, 2008, 11:23:59 am
The discussion of the barstool seems to be based on only one sense, the sense of sight.
the barstool smells of wee and tastes like poo but is neither ;)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Politician168023 on February 06, 2008, 11:35:33 am
hm.. you see my point or you missed it?

Are we talking about barstools in general, or "that barstool over there" ? ;)

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 06, 2008, 01:04:49 pm
Pol, the Barstool Experiment is (for me) meant to be a parable/metaphor, and not to be taken in an explicitly literal sense.

So, I take your point (with the exception that "sight" is the only sense being used.  Clearly, the argument used by the scientist is that of mass and cohesion, while the philosopher is the one questioning the hallucination of the world), but I suggest you take the "punchline" [/RWHN] as the feeling one gets when castles in the sky tumble.

To quote some asshat, "keep your head in the clouds and your feet on the ground."  Sometimes, it takes a barstool to help you find where your feet are.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 06, 2008, 01:10:22 pm
Its days like this that make me think the best 'barstool' in the world is to never, ever use metaphor to explain an idea again.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 06, 2008, 01:31:42 pm
Well, I can understand Pol's intentions.  When I hear something that tries to make a point, I know that one of the first things I try to do is parse it out, looking for what's "wrong" with it.

What I'm trying to do is to first understand completely what the author is saying, and then see if I agree with it, and finally pick it apart into tiny pieces.

I still haven't quite gotten there, though.  So I get it when people either miss the metaphor, or what the metaphor means.



LMNO
-starting the day as a nice guy.  We'll see where it goes.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 06, 2008, 01:36:47 pm
I didn't actually read anything Pol wrote, I just have a hangover kicking in and feel nasty.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 06, 2008, 01:40:52 pm
Oh, I can tell this is gonna be one of the fun* days, here at PD.com.





















*Please note:  "Fun" = "Terrifying".
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 06, 2008, 01:43:05 pm
I'll be fine, once I get some codeine.

Surely not all the student doctors with access to the pharmacy are on holiday.  Right?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Politician168023 on February 06, 2008, 01:52:25 pm
Pol, the Barstool Experiment is (for me) meant to be a parable/metaphor, and not to be taken in an explicitly literal sense.

So, I take your point (with the exception that "sight" is the only sense being used.  Clearly, the argument used by the scientist is that of mass and cohesion, while the philosopher is the one questioning the hallucination of the world), but I suggest you take the "punchline" [/RWHN] as the feeling one gets when castles in the sky tumble.

To quote some asshat, "keep your head in the clouds and your feet on the ground."  Sometimes, it takes a barstool to help you find where your feet are.

I understand the point of the parable/metaphor, damn I have to use the things all the time just to be understood =)

I don't personally take it literally either... just noticed a lot of pedanticism going on here and I wanted to join in the fun! lolz ;)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on February 06, 2008, 02:03:56 pm
It's a device to tell a funny story and get a point across.  Things aren't always what they seem.  Don't miss the forest for the trees.  What happens when one assumes and relies on "conventional wisdom".  So on and so forth.  Sure you probably could incorporate aspects of other sensory receptors.  But to me, a parable is only as effective as it is simple and straightfoward.  When you get too crazy and wacky and go in all sorts of different directions you'll never get the point across.  Or at least, you won't get it across to anyone with a lack of patience. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Politician168023 on February 06, 2008, 02:28:41 pm
What happens when one assumes and relies on "conventional wisdom".
The metaphor relies on conventional wisdom ;)  (I dont mean you are wrong What's-his-name, just that the message of the parable *is* conventional wisdom).


When you get too crazy and wacky and go in all sorts of different directions you'll never get the point across.  Or at least, you won't get it across to anyone with a lack of patience. 
Hopefully the "enlightened" people in the parable will have patience and not need a barstool.
Maybe the 'enlightened' people will see the barstool joke as hillarious (if painful) =)
Maybe the 'enlightened' people will miss the point because they see the joke as too crude to be the truth.
Hopefully all three (Hail Eris) =)

I appreciate what all of you have been saying, and agree, and understand... And yet I somehow feel that I have to tie all the viewpoints together.. many posts seem to say the same thing in a different way.. Many miss the point of the writer because they pick one piece up and analyse it, missing the general point.

Thanks for your replies LMNO, they tried not to do that.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on February 06, 2008, 05:44:23 pm
If you're looking for something that ties all the viewpoints together, it'd be our much-loved phrase "Think for yourself, schmuck".
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 06, 2008, 05:56:19 pm
If you're looking for something that ties all the viewpoints together, it'd be our much-loved phrase "Think for yourself, schmuck".

And I think that may be a point which seems in contention with the Barstool Metaphor... So Idjit One is Thinking for Himself, about how nothing is real... then Idjit Two decides that Idjit One needs to think like Idjit Two and whacks him with a barstool. It seems that the moral is "Think for yourself... but if it disagrees with our view we'll smack you with a barstool."

I think it tries to make the same point as a Zen Master with his stick... except the random person at the bar isn't a student that voluntarily put themselves under the training of a master... nor is the barstool wielder necessarily a Master, he just doesn't like the other guys argument. I think, like some of the other metaphors here, it almost but not quite gets where it needs to be. Sadly, I have no idea how to recommend an improvement... :(
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on February 06, 2008, 05:59:34 pm
Bah.  Mere words.  You're confusing the whole issue.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 06, 2008, 06:01:12 pm
That wasn't the point at all.

Get LMNO to explain it, I'm too drugged up to be able to bother with this.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on February 06, 2008, 06:06:58 pm
I'm not sure "Think For Yourself, Schmuck" alone does it.  Because as Rat points out, many would probably assume they are thinking for themselves.  Indeed, I think one can think for themselves, but be severely limited in what they think about.  

The way I approach the Barstool is it's about expanding your horizons and the borders of your thought process.  But, at the same time, don't get lost in that thought process and get carried away.  

It's not that we want their thoughts to have the same content.
It's not that we necessarily want their thought process to be identical.
It's that we want them to have access to the same thought toolbox.  
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 06, 2008, 06:25:23 pm
I'm not sure "Think For Yourself, Schmuck" alone does it.  Because as Rat points out, many would probably assume they are thinking for themselves.  Indeed, I think one can think for themselves, but be severely limited in what they think about.  

The way I approach the Barstool is it's about expanding your horizons and the borders of your thought process.  But, at the same time, don't get lost in that thought process and get carried away.  

It's not that we want their thoughts to have the same content.
It's not that we necessarily want their thought process to be identical.
It's that we want them to have access to the same thought toolbox.  

I understand the intent... it seems quite similar to "Be open minded, but don't let your brain fall out" which Pagan groups love to spout.

I dunno, I get the intent, but I find the metaphor still feels broken to me... 

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 06, 2008, 06:38:31 pm
As far as I see it, the BE depicts the occasionally useful, and often overlooked, values of common sense and pragmatism.

Thisnk about it:  These two guys were arguing about the possibility of whether the physical world exists, while they were existing in that world.

Now, while it's often amusing, and perhaps even enlightening some of the time, you have to remember that if you actually start believing that the world you're creating in your head, it's gonna get awfully difficult when you try to interact with what's going on outside your head.

In a way, it's another version of eating the menu; just because you can argue (and even convince yourself) that the barstool doesn't exist, it's still coming straight at your head.


Duck!

:barstool:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on February 06, 2008, 07:13:40 pm
I was responding to:

Quote from: Politician168023
I appreciate what all of you have been saying, and agree, and understand... And yet I somehow feel that I have to tie all the viewpoints together.. many posts seem to say the same thing in a different way.. Many miss the point of the writer because they pick one piece up and analyse it, missing the general point.

And I'd assumed (for no particular reason) that he meant to tie all the various PD flavoured philosophies together.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 06, 2008, 07:21:11 pm
As far as I see it, the BE depicts the occasionally useful, and often overlooked, values of common sense and pragmatism.

Think about it:  These two guys were arguing about the possibility of whether the physical world exists, while they were existing in that world.

Now, while it's often amusing, and perhaps even enlightening some of the time, you have to remember that if you actually start believing that the world you're creating in your head, it's gonna get awfully difficult when you try to interact with what's going on outside your head.

In a way, it's another version of eating the menu; just because you can argue (and even convince yourself) that the barstool doesn't exist, it's still coming straight at your head.


Duck!


Yes... except the difference is that one is a suggestion "Don't eat the menu, it causes gas", the other is simply an act of physical violence. The more I think about it, the more it seems that what feels missing to me is justification. The bar stool wielder doesn't really seem to have any justification for the act, except that he appears pissed off at not winning the argument. I know that isn't the intent, but to me that's how it seems to register.

One of the things I appreciate most about the Cosmic Schmuck principle is that its self-referential. "The more often you realize that you are acting like a Cosmic Schmuck, the less likely you will be to act like one." Now, maybe this is due to the difference that we seem to have on Discordian philosophy (I tend to see it as personal, some here seem to see it as something to inflict on others). So maybe that's the thing that doesn't work for me and this particular metaphor...
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cramulus on February 06, 2008, 07:32:05 pm
dumb question perhaps - but you know the metaphor is not a suggestion to physically hit people with a barstool, right?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 06, 2008, 07:35:12 pm
Rat, the violence is meant as slapstick.



If it would feel better, perhaps you would prefer the "stick experiment"?

Two men argue about the existence of a stick, and a third comes up and starts poking them with it?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on February 06, 2008, 07:39:14 pm
I think of the piece LHX wrote for the BIP the piece about toxicity.  In it he wrote the following (this is from the original version of BIP btw):

"some of us 'love' some of these beings which brings to light the messiness of the situation
do 'us' and 'them' have a future together?

to say no
implies some drama
some might suggest tragedy
i dont even think i want to continue"

So yes, to a degree is is personal.  But, in another sense it goes beyond the personal.  But I don't think of it as "inflicting Discordian philosophy" as much as just wanting people to be aware.  Let them draw their own conclusions but allowing them to see more of the picture.  
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 06, 2008, 07:58:08 pm
dumb question perhaps - but you know the metaphor is not a suggestion to physically hit people with a barstool, right?


I do!  :lulz:

Rat, the violence is meant as slapstick.

Yeah, I know that... It just feels wonky in the metaphor... I'm trying to find some way of expression that can help me dig out what doesn't seem to be working, but apparently I'm not getting the communication across well... or I'm crazy (either seems possible). I can't quite figure if its the way its being told or the point its trying to get across.

Quote
If it would feel better, perhaps you would prefer the "stick experiment"?

Two men argue about the existence of a stick, and a third comes up and starts poking them with it?

Maybe the problem lies in how its being told... perhaps if it were laid out differently...

For example, when I see the metaphor laid out, it usually works out that Person A says "Can't prove the Universe exists!" Person B says "Indeed, maybe not even this barstool!" and Person C hits them in the head with a bar stool.

The metaphor, as a model (not the reality), seems to suggest that person A and person B are assholes because they're blathering about some philosophical idea... yet, the points they bring up may be valid, particularly for two people to be discussing at a bar. The third person appears to have no justification for the act, other than that they personally didn't like the topic of conversation.

Maybe that's it. At the end of the story, I seem to feel as though the whole load of them might have been Cosmic Schmucks, but the Stool Wielder  appears more of a Cosmic Schmuck than the other two.

Argh... I really like the point its trying to make... something just seems incomplete in the metaphor...

Maybe if the two philosophers were so embroiled in their pontification over the non-existence of the barstool that they missed the start of a bar fight and were both clubbed with barstools in the fray it would feel much better to me... in that instance, the metaphor makes no judgement of mental masturbation, but it does make a statement about remaining aware of the reality we live in. It also seems to replace some Schmuck with self-righteous barstool wielding powers, with the random chaos of existence.

Does that make any sense, or should I just shut up now? :wink:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on February 06, 2008, 08:07:11 pm
One fine Maine evening, rife with the buzzing of mosquitos and the nearby substation, Chuck and I decided to put in an appearance at Joe's Hole In The Wall to enjoy our favourite spirits.

It came to be that we once again were discussing the finer, and duller, points of the universe and existence.  It was much more appealing than watching the Red Sox, yet again, implode upon the TV hanging from the ceiling next to the moose carcass.

Meanwhile a couple of chaps down the bar are also embroiled in their own deep discussion.  

"No man, I'm telling you there's a purple monkey right there on your shoulder"  one shouted.

"Dude, there isn't any stinking monkey on my shoulder.  That's just your 12th Rolling Rock talking." replied the other.

At which point Chuck and I had to interject.

"Excuse me my friend.  But what has you so convinced that there is not a purple monkey on your shoulder?"  Chuck asked.

"I ain't your friend freako!  And besides I don't see any monkey here on my shoulder.  You think I'd notice something like that."

"You assume it's your friend's drunken hallucination that is creating the purple monkey in his mind.  Has it ever occurred to you that it may be your drunken hallucination that is cloaking this very real purple monkey that is now urinating on your red flannel shirt?"  I asked of the man.

"I'm telling you man.  He's right there and this dude's right.  He's pissing all over your new shirt man."

"Here," I said.  And I handed him a book and a knife.  "Here's all that you need to see that which you cannot see."

And, as predicted, he proceeded to stab himself in the shoulder.

No one was particularily enlightened and Chuck and I were yet again banned from another bar.

The End.

Maybe you like this one?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 06, 2008, 08:10:43 pm
One fine Maine evening, rife with the buzzing of mosquitos and the nearby substation, Chuck and I decided to put in an appearance at Joe's Hole In The Wall to enjoy our favourite spirits.

It came to be that we once again were discussing the finer, and duller, points of the universe and existence.  It was much more appealing than watching the Red Sox, yet again, implode upon the TV hanging from the ceiling next to the moose carcass.

Meanwhile a couple of chaps down the bar are also embroiled in their own deep discussion.  

"No man, I'm telling you there's a purple monkey right there on your shoulder"  one shouted.

"Dude, there isn't any stinking monkey on my shoulder.  That's just your 12th Rolling Rock talking." replied the other.

At which point Chuck and I had to interject.

"Excuse me my friend.  But what has you so convinced that there is not a purple monkey on your shoulder?"  Chuck asked.

"I ain't your friend freako!  And besides I don't see any monkey here on my shoulder.  You think I'd notice something like that."

"You assume it's your friend's drunken hallucination that is creating the purple monkey in his mind.  Has it ever occurred to you that it may be your drunken hallucination that is cloaking this very real purple monkey that is now urinating on your red flannel shirt?"  I asked of the man.

"I'm telling you man.  He's right there and this dude's right.  He's pissing all over your new shirt man."

"Here," I said.  And I handed him a book and a knife.  "Here's all that you need to see that which you cannot see."

And, as predicted, he proceeded to stab himself in the shoulder.

No one was particularily enlightened and Chuck and I were yet again banned from another bar.

The End.

Maybe you like this one?


ROFL!!!  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Not quite the same moral, but a good one nonetheless!!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on February 06, 2008, 08:13:05 pm
There are a couple other examples earlier in the thread as well, Rog did one and some other dude named Reptyle who doesn't post here anymore. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 06, 2008, 08:15:32 pm
There are a couple other examples earlier in the thread as well, Rog did one and some other dude named Reptyle who doesn't post here anymore. 

In which thread? This one? (wonders if he missed something)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 06, 2008, 08:16:48 pm
Well Rat, I have to admit, I wrote this on the fly; it's a fairly condensed version.  I intended to flesh it out, but eventually just said "fuck it".

However, it really seems you get the idea of the BE:  Why don't you write your own version?  Who know, it could become definitive...
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 06, 2008, 08:26:36 pm
Well Rat, I have to admit, I wrote this on the fly; it's a fairly condensed version.  I intended to flesh it out, but eventually just said "fuck it".

However, it really seems you get the idea of the BE:  Why don't you write your own version?  Who know, it could become definitive...

A Definitive Discordian Parable?!

Zounds!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 06, 2008, 08:33:57 pm
Indeed, did many things come to pass.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on February 06, 2008, 08:45:15 pm
There are a couple other examples earlier in the thread as well, Rog did one and some other dude named Reptyle who doesn't post here anymore. 

In which thread? This one? (wonders if he missed something)

Yeah, Rog's is on page 2 or 3 and the one from Reptyle was a page or two after.  There may be more than that but I forget and was too lazy to go through all of them. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cramulus on February 06, 2008, 08:51:36 pm
I view the barstool story as a way of reminding myself that talk is cheap and - in many situations - pointless.

Tons of people have had conversations - well argued, eloquent, intelligent conversations - about the state of politics or how to fix world hunger or the environment or something of other grave importance. But unless you get off your ass and DO SOMETHING, all the talk in the world means zip.

I was at a party last week and these drunken guys were arguing about whether they should vote for Obama or Hillary. Here's the barstool - most of them weren't even reigstered to vote. Lot of good their heated discussion did on Super Tuesday. I guess they got to show off their opinions to each other though.


One day I was trying to calm down a friend who was angry and self-destructive about a recent breakup. I kept trying to mellow him out by explain to him that emotions are only chemicals, and that he shouldn't take recent events so seriously because it's all just a bunch of stupid little chemical reactions. "Yeah," he said, wielding the barstool against me, "Sure - misery is just a bunch of neurotransmitters. But knowing that doesn't make me feel any better."


Or tell Ron Paul supporters that - really now - even armed with the mandate of the popular vote, their savior couldn't possibly elimate the IRS. They're so high on rhetoric or idealism that they're no longer talking about things which could actually happen.


The Barstool says "snap out of it for a second - look at what you can REALLY expect to accomplish. Then talk about that."


Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on February 06, 2008, 08:56:01 pm
Take a step back, and THEN belly up to the bar. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 06, 2008, 08:58:37 pm
There are a couple other examples earlier in the thread as well, Rog did one and some other dude named Reptyle who doesn't post here anymore. 

In which thread? This one? (wonders if he missed something)

Yeah, Rog's is on page 2 or 3 and the one from Reptyle was a page or two after.  There may be more than that but I forget and was too lazy to go through all of them. 

Ok, let me give you the rundown of how I interpret these variations...

1. LMNO's first one, covered above.
2. Roger's, seems to say "If philosopher's annoy you, beat the fuck out of them." But then that's par for the course for hateshitting ;-)
3. RHWN's seems to aim for a different moral... that is, not drinking around Discordians. ;-)... but overall, seems to get the point that one should neither deny the existence of the Purple Monkey (that which we cannot see) nor accpet it as fact and try to stab it. More likely, he should have read the book first ;-)
4. Reptyle's seems to be focused much more on the individual and their perception of the Barstool. The fact that the point made in the first half is destroyed in the second half gives it a nice Discordian flair (Everything is true in some sense) while still making the reader THINK about making statements about existence and non-existence.
5. Apparently, since they all seemed to appear on page two in my browser, I must have been a Cosmic Schmuck and missed reading them. Thanks for the pointer :)

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 06, 2008, 09:08:18 pm

The Barstool says "snap out of it for a second - look at what you can REALLY expect to accomplish. Then talk about that."


I think your post was great... excellent points, but I don't really get that at all from the original parable... I do see the other poitns discussed here, but your point, I think should get its own metaphor with a much more clear story... what you stated above seems important enough to make sure the point gets through ;-)

Maybe, two people arguing over the existence or non-existence of the beer they ordered and the bar stool they are sitting on. At the end we figure out that neither of them actually had any money to buy the beer with and the bartender uses the bar stool on them? In the original, it doesn't feel as though they're missing out on the stool (or that there's s0mething important that they haven't done), rather they seem engaged in a sophomoric discussion about what may be. If it hadn't been for the third person, their night at the bar would have been uneventful and not filled with bar stool bruises. It wasn't they who failed to DO, it was someone else DOING to them.

Maybe we need to collect several versions of the story, each told in a different way, each with a different moral and then have them all published together... that might be a very interesting project :)

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 06, 2008, 11:36:30 pm
It came to pass one day that two students of Zaurn the Grey were sitting in the school garden, marveling at all their newfound knowledge.  Nearby, the Heirophant was quietly reading a comic book.

Pokaroo turned to ZauZajer and said:  'Zaurn the Wise taught me today about the true nature of solidity. He taught that seemingly solid objects are, in fact, made from tiny particles.  They appear to our eyes and fingers as solid, but in reality much space is between these particle, in a relative sense.'

ZauZajer stroked his goatee, which meant he was pondering. 'Interesting,' said he. 'for Zaurn the Erudite taught me today that vision and touch are the results of signals being passed to our minds from the outside world.  We see, yet we are verily as blind as a Srizzlefish.  For all we know our signals may be crossed and our vision and touch may be all lies.'

Pokaroo stared for a moment at the flagstones under his feet. 'Do you realize what this means?' he asked.

'I think I do.'  ZauZajer answered, with a tremble of fear in his eyes.

'With so much uncertainty, how can we know anything?' Pokaroo squeaked.

'Yes!' cried ZauZajer. 'With so much uncertainty we ourselves may not even exist.' 

The Heirophant, overhearing the discussion of the two students, strolled over. 'I overheard your discussion, because I was eavesdropping.' said he, then went on in this manner: 'If I may, I think I may be able to help you both with your problem.  That is, if you would like the help?'

'Yes!' cried Pokaroo. 'We are lost!'

'Please!' wailed ZauZajer. 'Enlighten us!'

The Heirophant smiled, rubbed his hands together briskly, then put a hand on each of the student's shoulders.  He leaned toward them, conspiratorially.  Pokaroo and ZauZajer leaned in, waiting for the answer.

The Heirophant swiftly knocked both of the two skulls together, letting out a ringing GONG sound.

Thus, were both enlightened.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 07, 2008, 01:42:14 am
It came to pass one day that two students of Zaurn the Grey were sitting in the school garden, marveling at all their newfound knowledge.  Nearby, the Heirophant was quietly reading a comic book.

Pokaroo turned to ZauZajer and said:  'Zaurn the Wise taught me today about the true nature of solidity. He taught that seemingly solid objects are, in fact, made from tiny particles.  They appear to our eyes and fingers as solid, but in reality much space is between these particle, in a relative sense.'

ZauZajer stroked his goatee, which meant he was pondering. 'Interesting,' said he. 'for Zaurn the Erudite taught me today that vision and touch are the results of signals being passed to our minds from the outside world.  We see, yet we are verily as blind as a Srizzlefish.  For all we know our signals may be crossed and our vision and touch may be all lies.'

Pokaroo stared for a moment at the flagstones under his feet. 'Do you realize what this means?' he asked.

'I think I do.'  ZauZajer answered, with a tremble of fear in his eyes.

'With so much uncertainty, how can we know anything?' Pokaroo squeaked.

'Yes!' cried ZauZajer. 'With so much uncertainty we ourselves may not even exist.' 

The Heirophant, overhearing the discussion of the two students, strolled over. 'I overheard your discussion, because I was eavesdropping.' said he, then went on in this manner: 'If I may, I think I may be able to help you both with your problem.  That is, if you would like the help?'

'Yes!' cried Pokaroo. 'We are lost!'

'Please!' wailed ZauZajer. 'Enlighten us!'

The Heirophant smiled, rubbed his hands together briskly, then put a hand on each of the student's shoulders.  He leaned toward them, conspiratorially.  Pokaroo and ZauZajer leaned in, waiting for the answer.

The Heirophant swiftly knocked both of the two skulls together, letting out a ringing GONG sound.

Thus, were both enlightened.

Utterly beautiful...

And thus Ratatosk was enlightened.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cramulus on February 07, 2008, 04:15:55 am

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/discordman/forumspecific/mittens_and_rejoice.jpg)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on February 07, 2008, 09:49:55 am
New wallpaper!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 07, 2008, 03:43:05 pm
Hoops, that was brilliant.



I was going to babble on about this some more, but after that....



















Well, I'll babble anyway.  Consider that in my version of the parable, the two people arguing about the barstool, went totally anti- E.Prime, and were insisting that the barstool isn't really there.  In that case, the BE really becomes an experiment, as in, "if you really think it isn't there, then let's try something."



Adding to Cram's point, perhaps we can ask:  Would you prefer two people arguing about whether Mr. Momomoto can swallow his brother's nose, or the way one's reality grid can be altered?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 07, 2008, 04:15:48 pm
Thanks guys!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 07, 2008, 05:20:45 pm
Well, I'll babble anyway.  Consider that in my version of the parable, the two people arguing about the barstool, went totally anti- E.Prime, and were insisting that the barstool isn't really there.  In that case, the BE really becomes an experiment, as in, "if you really think it isn't there, then let's try something."

Well, again, I think the overall story has a lot of potential, only that the layout was missing something. I think in your example here... if the two philosophers proceeded to beat each other (or themselves) senseless (maybe based on the advice of a third much wiser person), trying to prove the barstools didn't exist then the story would fit very well. I think this may have a lot to do with the variations in how we perceive Discordianism. That is, I tend to argue that we each have our own trip and the goodness or badness of said trip is dependent upon us, individually. In the initial story, the two philosophers got their bad trip made worse by a third person that appeared to be more a jackass than a Zen Master ;-)

However, with the above variation, the two philosophers start out on a bad trip then make it even worse. I liked Reptyle's for the same reason.... I really dig the concept that Discordians, through O:MF etc are handing people lots of rope, they can use the rope to escape their BiP, or they can use it to tangle themselves up worse than they were before. It's their trip.

Quote
Adding to Cram's point, perhaps we can ask:  Would you prefer two people arguing about whether Mr. Momomoto can swallow his brother's nose, or the way one's reality grid can be altered?

No, I don't think either of those would fit nearly as well as the barstool scene, at least not for this particular story. .. and I honestly thought Mr. Momomoto's bits in the PD were kinda lame ;-)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 07, 2008, 05:49:35 pm
See, that's my point: Listening to two guys try to prove to each other that the barstool doesn't exist is like listening to them argue about Mr. Momomoto.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 07, 2008, 06:11:37 pm
See, that's my point: Listening to two guys try to prove to each other that the barstool doesn't exist is like listening to them argue about Mr. Momomoto.

Well yeah, but I'm not about to start laying about with a barstool over it ;-)

If anything, I would say that another potential lesson of She What Done It All has to do with our own trip... that is, if two assholes are discussing Mr. Momomoto's nose, I can interject my assumption that Mr. Momomoto is lame, as are the two philosophers, but then, I'm just as much as Cosmic Schmuck (if not possibly moreso) than they are.

That is, if you think it lame to listen to arguments of barstools and proboscis munchers... then don't listen. If we pick and choose our reality tunnel, our reality grid or whatever the hell we want to call limited perception... then why include the shit that pisses you off... particularly if it pisses you off enough to impose your opinion on others? I think this concept more than any may be why I've decided to see Discordianism as a more introspective sort of philosophy... folks that see it as more externalized, seem to make a lot of assumptions about how other people should and should not behave. This difference may come from my background as well... after spending 25 years, barstool in hand to whack anyone talking about Hell, the trinity, etc. then finding out I was a "fool of shit" as badly if not worse than they. So my proselytizing spirit seems to have gone.

I'm more than happy to hand them a barstool or knife and let them whack themselves... I just don't want to assume that I've righteous enough to do the whacking myself.

Does that make any sense, or am I blathering?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 07, 2008, 06:29:40 pm
No, i can see what you're trying to say.

You seem to be saying that you don't mind if the third person says, "well, if the barstool doesn't exist, then why don't you see if you can run through it," but you don't really dig the active aspect of proving the case.


Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 07, 2008, 06:36:25 pm
No, i can see what you're trying to say.

You seem to be saying that you don't mind if the third person says, "well, if the barstool doesn't exist, then why don't you see if you can run through it," but you don't really dig the active aspect of proving the case.

Oh no, I dig the active aspect of proving the case. If I am asked to help prove the case (as the Master was in Hoopla's example) then I will happily break heads. If I'm not directly asked, then I might try to inject something that they could use to help themselves or hurt themselves (like "well, if the barstool doesn't exist, then why don't you see if you can run through it").

I'm reminded of Baron von Hoopla's discussion of Discordian Ethics. The ethical act is the act that increases Freedom. Whacking someone with a barstool uninvited doesn't seem to increase freedom. Whacking heads when invited, or allowing people the freedom to choose to say "Now, don't be silly, I'm not about to whack myself with a barstool..." or to actually beat themselves about the head and shoulders with a barstool.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 07, 2008, 06:47:08 pm
I hate to say it, but I really thing we're parsing it kind of fine.

In it's most base sense, we agree that the parable ends with a measure of physical proof, and someone encounters the physicality of the barstool.

So, it comes down to the manner in which the barstool is applied: passively, coercively, or actively.

"Why don't you..."

"I will give you the solution if you ask nicely."

"Take that, motherfuckers!"



If that's all you're objecting to, then all you need to do is change the story.  The priciple allagory still holds up.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on February 07, 2008, 10:27:30 pm
Well spoken.  It's like, whether or not the stool is really there is connected to your own physical presence.

Phantoms we may all be, but everything we see still affects us.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 07, 2008, 10:42:31 pm
I hate to say it, but I really thing we're parsing it kind of fine.

In it's most base sense, we agree that the parable ends with a measure of physical proof, and someone encounters the physicality of the barstool.

So, it comes down to the manner in which the barstool is applied: passively, coercively, or actively.

"Why don't you..."

"I will give you the solution if you ask nicely."

"Take that, motherfuckers!"



If that's all you're objecting to, then all you need to do is change the story.  The priciple allagory still holds up.

I think I agree completely... in fact didn't we figure that out a couple pages back? ;-)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on February 08, 2008, 02:33:14 am
Well Rat, I have to admit, I wrote this on the fly; it's a fairly condensed version.  I intended to flesh it out, but eventually just said "fuck it".

is there actually an original story you based it on?

because your version is the first and oldest one that i ever read, but still it seems some people knew it already before that. so, where did the story come from?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 08, 2008, 02:37:42 am
I thought the first time I heard it was from ECH.  A LONG time ago.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on February 08, 2008, 02:39:13 am
oh which reminds me, there also was a version that featured LMNO and LHX talking about the nature of the universe, and then ECH coming along to bash their heads in.

dunno if that one was earlier, though.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 08, 2008, 02:58:23 am
That might be what I'm thinking of.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 08, 2008, 05:13:53 am
And quickly the shadows of esoterica envelop the roots of another parable. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 08, 2008, 12:27:51 pm
What I meant to say was that I heard it from L. Ron Hubbard when we were both submarine captains . . . we fought JAPS!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 08, 2008, 01:13:02 pm
The seraphim ADONAI Q'ALABDADABADABA spake it to mine person whilst I dozed.



















Heh. the phrase was kicking around for a while before I came across it, but I think I was the first to make it into a parable.

oh which reminds me, there also was a version that featured LMNO and LHX talking about the nature of the universe, and then ECH coming along to bash their heads in.

dunno if that one was earlier, though.

Truth be told, that actually happened IRL.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on February 08, 2008, 02:49:37 pm
sorry, but i happen to be forbidden to believe anything i read ;-)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on February 08, 2008, 10:46:43 pm
Does that apply to your own posts?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 17, 2008, 05:36:20 am
Yet ANOTHER take on it:


Yesterday, I overheard a conversation between two homeless men who were waiting in a line for lunch at a nearby shelter. I was waiting for a bus on a bench close to where the two were standing, and happened to overhear one of them mention a 'golden apple'. This, of course, piqued my interest, so I began to listen to the two.

It turns out that the 'golden apple' the one man was referring to was what is commonly referred to as an 'Orange', but he is correct that at one time the fruit was called a golden apple - the conversation centered around the man holding the orange trying to convince the other man that the fruit he was holding was in fact blue, not orange.

"It's like this," said the man. "colour works in opposites. When you look at an Orange the light bounces off the Orange, and back to your eye. But, the thing is, the thing is this: the Orange absorbs all the colours of the white light, and only bounces back the colour orange to your eye. So, really, the Orange is any colour BUT orange."

"I don't get it." said the other man. "Why does it look orange to us, then?"

"Because that's the only colour bouncing back to your eye. It looks orange because orange is bouncing back. The eye works on opposites. We actually see things upside down, but our eyes correct the image so that we see it normally. And, we usually see in negative, but the eye corrects for that too."

"That's fucked." the other man answered aptly.

It was at this point that I turned to the two men. "I'll tell you what's more fucked. Colour doesn't exist at all."

They both just stared at me. I continued: "Think about this: Everything is made from molecules, right? Well, what colour are molecules?"

The one man shrugged, and the other said: "I don't know."

I winked. "Exactly. That's because molecules don't have any colour. And, if everything is made from molecules, and molecules have no colour, than de facto NOTHING has colour.  BOOYA!"

Before either man could respond, I disappeared into a puff of smoke.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 17, 2008, 10:47:55 am
I would have kicked your invisible ass.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 17, 2008, 04:19:06 pm
 :lulz:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 19, 2008, 01:30:15 pm
So Hoops, are you saying that the entire Barstool Experiment can be summed up as Sophistry?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 19, 2008, 03:07:11 pm
No, at least that wasn't my intention.

My point was you can always get more pedantic, if you truly want to.  It's just a matter of how worthwhile you think being that pedantic will be.

Sure, oranges probably don't have any colour, but for all intents and purposes they appear orange to most of our eyes, so STFU.

That was what I was trying to get across.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 19, 2008, 04:14:04 pm
Although, after some reflection . . . maybe it is sophistry after all . . .

Perhaps my point wasn't as well thought out as I had originally thought . . .  :cry:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 21, 2008, 07:34:46 pm
You mean the intent of the Barstool isn't to smack sophist thought? I had assumed that was the basic point of the whole thing...

 :eek:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 21, 2008, 07:38:20 pm
I think LMNO was accusing me of sophistry.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 21, 2008, 08:38:58 pm
I think LMNO was accusing me of sophistry.

Nah, he just likes to use big words. ;-)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 21, 2008, 08:42:13 pm
This is true.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 21, 2008, 08:47:53 pm
Yup.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 21, 2008, 09:06:32 pm
Hey!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 22, 2008, 12:36:31 pm
Hm?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on February 22, 2008, 01:12:44 pm
 :argh!:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 22, 2008, 01:21:25 pm
:digtbk:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: barumunk on February 25, 2008, 04:43:44 pm
So Hoops, are you saying that the entire Barstool Experiment can be summed up as Sophistry?

um would that be the derogatory term or the philosophical line of thought  :wink:
or just maybe a deliberate pun.... that would be be outta character tho :D
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: President Bush on April 22, 2008, 11:52:50 am
Wow! You fags are still here? Maybe you should get off your ass and put some thought into something meaningful instead of a stupid kiddie message board. You're all pawns in the game of life, no matter how much you think about it. You're still retarded no matter how big your words are. You're still missing the point.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: President Bush on April 22, 2008, 12:10:15 pm
Wow! You fags are still here? Maybe you should get off your ass and put some thought into something meaningful instead of a stupid kiddie message board. You're all pawns in the game of life, no matter how much you think about it. You're still retarded no matter how big your words are. You're still missing the point.

There is still time to accept Jesus Christ, he is the only one that can fill the enormous void in your life. He is the definite answer you've been wasting your life looking for.  He will save your soul and ease your mind.  I too am a mere, flawed mortal. I can only hope others would try to reach me in times of need. This might be your last chance to save your eternity.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: fast speed on April 22, 2008, 12:24:41 pm
Hey good point.

I like you.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: barumunk on April 22, 2008, 12:29:13 pm
Wow! You fags are still here? Maybe you should get off your ass and put some thought into something meaningful instead of a stupid kiddie message board. You're all pawns in the game of life, no matter how much you think about it. You're still retarded no matter how big your words are. You're still missing the point.

There is still time to accept Jesus Christ, he is the only one that can fill the enormous void in your life. He is the definite answer you've been wasting your life looking for.  He will save your soul and ease your mind.  I too am a mere, flawed mortal. I can only hope others would try to reach me in times of need. This might be your last chance to save your eternity.

point taken, but as you pointed out (see above) thats where you differ from us. Mwhahahahahahaha  :evil:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on April 22, 2008, 01:03:36 pm
Don't bother, someone seems to have a blind agenda, reasoning with this person will be like carrying on a conversation with a turnip. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: the dreadful hours on April 22, 2008, 01:09:10 pm
you are my hero
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: barumunk on April 22, 2008, 01:10:17 pm
ah i see  :|

cant one of the mods "mod" him if he's just spamming all the threads
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: rong on April 23, 2008, 10:15:09 am
Don't bother, someone seems to have a blind agenda, reasoning with this person will be like carrying on a conversation with a turnip. 

who's to say there's not some turnips with really good ideas?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on April 23, 2008, 01:56:33 pm
Me, for one.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on April 23, 2008, 02:24:56 pm
Don't bother, someone seems to have a blind agenda, reasoning with this person will be like carrying on a conversation with a turnip.

who's to say there's not some turnips with really good ideas?

irrelevant.

it was the entire point of the simile.

were you trying to be funny? this is not allowed.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: rong on April 26, 2008, 10:06:24 pm
were you trying to be funny? this is not allowed.

what's not allowed? being funny? or trying to be funny?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on April 28, 2008, 02:27:27 pm
Exactly. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Maria on June 16, 2008, 12:24:39 am
Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.

I like this.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on June 18, 2008, 02:21:50 pm
Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.

I like this.

From all accounts, you seem like someone who would instinctively "get" this.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Payne on September 05, 2008, 01:20:57 pm
& there was I wondering why Dr. Payne slapped me about with a barstool . . .  :lol:

That was nothing to do with The Barstool Experiment. That was just violence for the sake of it.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: wlfjstr on September 17, 2008, 04:29:28 am
Maybe if we put the barstool in a faulty incinerator and tried to determine if it got burned up or not?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hoopla on September 17, 2008, 01:04:11 pm
Are you mixing up the barstool with Schrodinger's Cat?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on September 17, 2008, 02:05:27 pm
Maybe if we put the barstool in a faulty incinerator and tried to determine if it got burned up or not?

Now where is the senseless violence in that? 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: the last yatto on September 27, 2008, 06:45:30 am
this picture belongs here, from a comic book called Transmetropolitan

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1640/32542074iu3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Jasper on September 30, 2008, 08:21:57 am
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k293/FelixPhlogopite/shutup.jpg)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: the last yatto on September 30, 2008, 07:50:28 pm
(http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4773/transmetropolitanchairlyo3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Reginald Ret on November 11, 2008, 02:40:18 pm
hmmm have to go check the local comicbook store now... to buy some for real(already downloading) because this kind of shit deserves my money.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Xirian on December 28, 2008, 05:47:00 pm
Comics.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: ElbowMacaroni on January 09, 2009, 10:42:06 pm
A duck, a preist, and a proctologist walk into a bar...

they sit down, have a few drinks and the duck starts arguing with the priest about the the physical existence of stool. The duck contemplates that his stool perhaps wasn't actually solid due to the majority of space between sub-atomic particles, etc... The priest insists that although the stool was put there by god himself and as a result must be solid, admits that he is also a learned man and realizes that perhaps the stool may not indeed be solid. However, he refused flatly to take a firm stand on the topic. Eventually the proctologist tires of this banter and walks over to the duck, shoves his hand up the ducks ass rips out a big old blob of green and white and proceeds to slap both the duck and the priest, and says to them, this shit'd be solid if yah ate more protien!

And so they were enlightened...
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Lies on January 11, 2009, 11:19:15 am
NA zen story
Nothing Exists

Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.

Desiring to show his attainment, he said: "The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no realization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received."

Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.

"If nothing exists," inquired Dokuon, "where did this anger come from?"
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on January 12, 2009, 04:10:03 pm
NA zen story
Nothing Exists

Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.

Desiring to show his attainment, he said: "The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no realization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received."

Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.

"If nothing exists," inquired Dokuon, "where did this anger come from?"

:mittens:

Beautiful and poignant!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on January 12, 2009, 04:11:00 pm
NA zen story
Nothing Exists

Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.

Desiring to show his attainment, he said: "The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no realization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received."

Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.

"If nothing exists," inquired Dokuon, "where did this anger come from?"

 :lulz:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Ziggy Odyssey on January 14, 2009, 09:21:27 pm
a priest walked into a bar... and split his head open... on it.

 :kingmeh:

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: ElbowMacaroni on January 16, 2009, 04:51:52 am
a priest walked into a bar... and split his head open... on it.

 :kingmeh:



Yeah, that sounds about right
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on January 16, 2009, 12:49:16 pm
::hits the "restart" button::

Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.


Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on January 16, 2009, 05:33:02 pm
::hits the "restart" button::

Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.




Then, of course, ECH goes to jail for putting LMNO in the hospital and you in a coma for the rest of your life....
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Golden Applesauce on January 17, 2009, 05:04:47 am
::hits the "restart" button::

Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.




Then, of course, ECH goes to jail for putting LMNO in the hospital and you in a coma for the rest of your life....

LMNO and Ratatosk get into a heated argument over whether it is possible to escape from said jail, or if one will always (in some sense) remain in jail.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: ElbowMacaroni on January 17, 2009, 06:09:59 am
chugga chugga choo choo ding ding choo choo (http://dalismustache.com/images/cheers.gif)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: the last yatto on January 17, 2009, 10:37:51 am
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7783/transmetropolitan06ve0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on January 19, 2009, 05:33:34 pm
::hits the "restart" button::

Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.




Then, of course, ECH goes to jail for putting LMNO in the hospital and you in a coma for the rest of your life....

LMNO and Ratatosk get into a heated argument over whether it is possible to escape from said jail, or if one will always (in some sense) remain in jail.

I claim InnoSense. I agree with the barstool metaphor... I just thought it was funny to take it to the obvious conclusion. Unlike traditional Zen, where the beatings are reserved for those voluntarily seeking enlightenment, we Discordians may tend towards assault. ;-)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: I_Kicked_Kennedy on April 07, 2009, 06:17:35 pm
Let me know if this is old sauce:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=7323
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: the last yatto on April 07, 2009, 07:51:16 pm
 :argh!: tie your shoes!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2009, 01:37:36 am
Let me know if this is old sauce:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=7323

 :lulz:

Okay, which one of you fucktards did that.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LuciferX on May 13, 2009, 09:19:48 am
Acid House meets Prisinors Dillema
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 13, 2009, 01:35:07 pm
Full House meets Speak n Spell
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2009, 01:39:35 pm
House meets Yo Gabba Gabba.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LuciferX on May 13, 2009, 09:05:43 pm
good
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LuciferX on May 14, 2009, 04:56:55 am
all monikers aside, who has time to digest all?

1) Non-Linear thought -response -
    please evaluate relevance so i can tune w/ friggin friction capish ?

think of me as a pig, cured and weaponized and tired of flies in the market...

 :fnord:+1
"Of the question of Reality [faggots, listen], the one which comes first in order
is the ontological question of what "Reality" signifies in general [you fucking trog-
lodytes]"

The problem is that you ask these questions in the first place...

tell me when your ready, and be good or cross me
(this hurts me more than it does you)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 14, 2009, 05:34:49 am
all monikers aside, who has time to digest all?

1) Non-Linear thought -response -
    please evaluate relevance so i can tune w/ friggin friction capish ?

think of me as a pig, cured and weaponized and tired of flies in the market...

 :fnord:+1
"Of the question of Reality [faggots, listen], the one which comes first in order
is the ontological question of what "Reality" signifies in general [you fucking trog-
lodytes]"

The problem is that you ask these questions in the first place...

tell me when your ready, and be good or cross me
(this hurts me more than it does you)

Goddammit.  We just got rid of the last batch of pinealist fuckwads.  We aren't DUE yet.  Go away, come back in 3 months.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LuciferX on May 14, 2009, 06:06:56 am
my pleasure, services rendered in full
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: bds on May 14, 2009, 03:02:19 pm
all monikers aside, who has time to digest all?

1) Non-Linear thought -response -
    please evaluate relevance so i can tune w/ friggin friction capish ?

think of me as a pig, cured and weaponized and tired of flies in the market...

 :fnord:+1
"Of the question of Reality [faggots, listen], the one which comes first in order
is the ontological question of what "Reality" signifies in general [you fucking trog-
lodytes]"

The problem is that you ask these questions in the first place...

tell me when your ready, and be good or cross me
(this hurts me more than it does you)

... Why is it that pinealists can't type using standard formatting? Are they just too outlandish for legible, ordinary internet speak?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on May 14, 2009, 03:08:00 pm
The thing is, it is quite possible to convey messages and be somewhat unconventional in formatting and approach.  See LHX. 

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on May 14, 2009, 03:56:28 pm

... Why is it that pinealists can't type using standard formatting? Are they just too outlandish for legible, ordinary internet speak?


YUO GREYFACE!
  \
 :hashishim:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: bds on May 15, 2009, 01:30:36 am
The thing is, it is quite possible to convey messages and be somewhat unconventional in formatting and approach.  See LHX. 



This is true. And LHX's writings make a surprisingly good breath of fresh air. I wouldn't want everyone typing like that though - my brain would get all confused.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Template on May 15, 2009, 04:06:29 am
tell me when your ready, and be good or cross me
(this hurts me more than it does you)

minus+space
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LuciferX on May 15, 2009, 10:49:55 pm
http://www.futurerelease.com/BL_reChen.jpg

here
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 15, 2009, 11:49:36 pm
http://www.futurerelease.com/BL_reChen.jpg

here

http://discordia.wikia.com/wiki/Pinealist
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LuciferX on May 16, 2009, 09:30:13 am
G=T
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: BabylonHoruv on June 09, 2009, 02:33:47 am
How about the ocean deeps?  I think it's safe to say there is no humanity down there, cept for the occassional National Geographic submarine.  There's a certain reality, or "bits of stuff" that have, I assume, been existing without our presence.  Perhaps if we weren't around it would be different, in fact I'm sure it would be somehow.  But it would still "be" in some fashion wouldn't it?

Logic and almost every other rule you could apply, dictates that it does but I'd bet even science would be reluctant to call this an irrefutable fact because the bottom line is - we can't prove it.

It's an extension of BIP the way I see it, that and a bit of matrix flung in, that reality is actually projected by us and only exists in a bubble, around the observer. Yes, I agree, this is a patently ridiculous hypothesis but it is one, nonetheless that we can't completely rule out.

If you want to fuck your head in with metaphysics then, take it from someone who has, this kind of paradigm is exactly the kind of thing that will do it for you.

So you're saying that it's possible the ocean floor may only exist when we are actually there?
So, by this logic, it's possible to jump from a mile high cliff and walk away without a scratch. 

I used to date a girl who claims to have done this.  Well, actually she got a scratch, but she didn't go splat.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 09, 2009, 05:11:46 am
How about the ocean deeps?  I think it's safe to say there is no humanity down there, cept for the occassional National Geographic submarine.  There's a certain reality, or "bits of stuff" that have, I assume, been existing without our presence.  Perhaps if we weren't around it would be different, in fact I'm sure it would be somehow.  But it would still "be" in some fashion wouldn't it?

Logic and almost every other rule you could apply, dictates that it does but I'd bet even science would be reluctant to call this an irrefutable fact because the bottom line is - we can't prove it.

It's an extension of BIP the way I see it, that and a bit of matrix flung in, that reality is actually projected by us and only exists in a bubble, around the observer. Yes, I agree, this is a patently ridiculous hypothesis but it is one, nonetheless that we can't completely rule out.

If you want to fuck your head in with metaphysics then, take it from someone who has, this kind of paradigm is exactly the kind of thing that will do it for you.

So you're saying that it's possible the ocean floor may only exist when we are actually there?
So, by this logic, it's possible to jump from a mile high cliff and walk away without a scratch. 

I used to date a girl who claims to have done this.  Well, actually she got a scratch, but she didn't go splat.

I used to date a girl who claimed that aliens abducted her.

PROTIP:  Generally speaking, the more fucked in the head your partner is, the more fun they are. 

TGRR,
DIRTY LITTLE WHORE.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on June 09, 2009, 05:38:00 pm
Until they start going through your mail, throw hot food at you, and try to strangle you. 

Well, unless your David Carradine of course. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 09, 2009, 11:28:00 pm
Until they start going through your mail, throw hot food at you, and try to strangle you. 

Well, unless your David Carradine of course. 

You kids, these days...you don't know how to rock and roll.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: the last yatto on June 12, 2009, 04:23:02 am
dont whistle while your pissing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S32X5-eKVp4)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on June 12, 2009, 12:25:47 pm
Until they start going through your mail, throw hot food at you, and try to strangle you. 

Well, unless your David Carradine of course. 

You kids, these days...you don't know how to rock and roll.

Troof.  I dated a girl who when we first met, she kicked my legs out from under me, elbowed me in the stomach and then attempted to strangle me.

Things got even better after we managed to get each other's names.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Iason Ouabache on June 26, 2009, 06:38:42 am
A slightly different take on the Barstool Experiment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLYfH9obFNQ
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kai on July 05, 2009, 01:23:02 am
Thanks Iason.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Requia ☣ on July 21, 2009, 02:30:49 pm
A slightly different take on the Barstool Experiment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLYfH9obFNQ

If people's thoughts are trustworthy why do we have creationists?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on July 21, 2009, 02:54:09 pm
A slightly different take on the Barstool Experiment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLYfH9obFNQ

If people's thoughts are trustworthy why do we have creationists?

MAGIC!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hemlock4Socrates on September 15, 2009, 01:50:20 pm
Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.

Wow! I feel like SUCH a neophyte newbie! I don't even know who [what] ECH is!!!!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on September 15, 2009, 01:57:54 pm
For the purposes of this experiment, it is not necessary.  If it makes it easier for you, replace "ECH" with Bob, Mary, or some other name. 

But if you want to get to know the denizens of pd.com, I suggest starting with the Intro thread in Apple Talk, and go from there. 

Welcome, btw. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on September 15, 2009, 01:58:43 pm
Of course, you could always employ the greatest weapon to combat ignorance if you so chose.


Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hemlock4Socrates on September 15, 2009, 02:29:32 pm
Thanks Rev. and LMNO! I shall heed your advice...
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on September 15, 2009, 02:41:16 pm
We'll see, won't we?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on September 15, 2009, 02:44:34 pm
We shall, it's too early to be making any bold predictions at this time. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on September 15, 2009, 02:48:56 pm
Truly, you are a font of wisdom.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: AFK on September 15, 2009, 02:55:59 pm
Too kind, I'm just the type to try and save face. 
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on September 15, 2009, 03:10:12 pm
Therein lies the keys to the entire subtext.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Triple Zero on September 15, 2009, 06:56:08 pm
Fuck those guys, really, there used to be this really nice place I'd go and have a drink, but one evening the barman thought it was nice to have a band play a live performance. But a HUGE fight broke out, some argument about the nature of reality or something. It was horrible, and the place hasn't ever been the same after the bar's Tool experiment.

(quoted for relevance)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 15, 2009, 07:27:54 pm
Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.

Wow! I feel like SUCH a neophyte newbie! I don't even know who [what] ECH is!!!!

Odd.  Your avatar looks really familiar.

REALLY familiar.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on September 15, 2009, 07:49:20 pm
Its part of the standard forum set. 

Yes, we have pre-set avatars.  Yes, they all suck.

IIRC that particular one was used by Hawk, at some point before he ran away because I was mean and elitist or something.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on September 15, 2009, 07:55:49 pm
Also note it's that whiney pussy from Korn.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Hemlock4Socrates on September 17, 2009, 12:23:43 pm
Also note it's that whiney pussy from Korn.
I couldn't have described him better myself LMNO. I'll eventually come up with something else....but for now, heh, why not?  :fap:
Fuck those guys, really, there used to be this really nice place I'd go and have a drink, but one evening the barman thought it was nice to have a band play a live performance. But a HUGE fight broke out, some argument about the nature of reality or something. It was horrible, and the place hasn't ever been the same after the bar's Tool experiment.
(quoted for relevance)
I'm rapidly digesting [BUUURP!....'scuse me] as I make my first skim through "the book"....I'm sure there's relevance, I'm just too much of a n00b to know it....I obviously posted prematurely - however, since y'all seem at least mildly amused - I'll save the apology for. . . Aw srcrew it! no apology....no,,,NO!  :wink:

Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on September 18, 2009, 07:36:35 am
Also note it's that whiney pussy from Korn.

Uh, all of them?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Reginald Ret on September 22, 2009, 08:33:23 pm
The singing one, you know: the one that whines during their 'songs'.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Daego on November 26, 2009, 04:18:41 am
Albeit NO Barstool
This experiment clearly states, in any obvious or REDUNDANT opinion, "Woe to this fact, and Woe to the facts, every fucking one of them."  This fact would be, once again obvious and redundant, The Fact
Go Go Gadget MEDIA BOMB!
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cramulus on November 26, 2009, 04:52:23 am
it's one of the default PD avatars
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on March 11, 2010, 12:50:22 am
Historical barstool-ery

"Those who deny the first principle should be flogged or burned until they admit that it is not the same thing to be burned and not burned, or whipped and not whipped."

From Avicenna.  The "first principle" is the law of non-contradiction.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Kai on July 06, 2010, 05:48:33 pm
http://yudkowsky.net/rational/the-simple-truth A barstool experiment at length, expanding on the idiocy of "But does 2+2 REALLY really equal 4?"
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on July 12, 2010, 12:59:54 pm
Yudowsky's site is one giant barstool to many things.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LuciferX on July 12, 2010, 01:09:13 pm
Ikiriki?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: the last yatto on January 26, 2011, 08:50:59 pm
tattoo idea i had...


(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4297/ksck.jpg) (http://img408.imageshack.us/i/ksck.jpg/)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Freeky on July 12, 2011, 03:18:22 am
bOOMP.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Slurrealist on December 17, 2011, 11:13:33 pm
"It's empty space...Y'know...Like in that song," My friend George responded drunkenly. I think it was a natural state after one full vodka bottle, which had been emptied out by George only, and half a joint, a thing I shared tonight with my pal.
"Me think it's not real...A dream...Hallucination," I responded sluggishly, then giggled. God, I felt so stoned. Like if a rock of physical ecstasy had fell on me, crushed me, penetrated trough my body, became one with it.
"No...No...It'ssss all materiall...The empty space...The particles are too far...The barstooooll shouldn't exist at all...In theory," George responded, bloodshot eyes looking at me with the seriousness of a conservative college professor when some student had made a critical remark on his theory. He always had been the more materialistic one from our group.
"Then...it's an illusion. Like the pattern crawling on the table...Not real...A hallucination," I responded. An all knowing smirk danced on my face. Finally, I will put him down, broke his theory, shatter his view to shards.
An intrusion stopped my elation. I looked to the left, and I encountered a gorgeous woman, beautiful as the Greek Goddesses.
She smiled, her light blue eyes shining as sapphires. Maybe they were sapphires. She placed her silky and warm left hand on mine's; the right one covered George's long fingered, bony hand. Then, in a swift motion, she brought our hands to her boobs, hidden by a red blouse.
Suddenly, everything made sense.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cramulus on December 19, 2011, 05:29:05 pm
:mittens:

I like that take on the parable

I like it because it shows the attractive qualities of reality.

The original form of the barstool parable shows us beating people in the face to demonstrate the true nature of reality.

But that's a very narrow demonstration of The Real World, no?

This telling shows that material reality has its own reasons that you should anchor yourself to it--more reasons than just avoiding punishment.


Your version of the parable says:

You should keep one foot on the ground. Yes, it's dangerous to have your head in the clouds, but what we forgot to mention is that you'll be missing out on all the cool stuff down here.



My Discordian practice is kind of monastic, and I do need these reminders now and then, that even if you teach yourself to hold things at arms length, you've gotta bite the fucking apple now and then.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on February 18, 2012, 05:36:31 am
Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.
Cool to use this?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: moose on February 20, 2012, 04:37:00 pm
Im reminded of something from a modern philosophy course...Can't remember if it was a response to Berkeley or what but there is this famous response to an argument regarding sense-skepticism and the critic of the argument goes "I refute him thusly" and kicks a nearby stone. I like the forum version much better.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LMNO on February 21, 2012, 01:57:14 pm
Clumsily put, Let's say we were in a bar, having a few pints, and talking about the nature of Universe.

You point out that most of what we consider "matter" is made up of empty space; the distance between a nucleus, it's electrons, and the nearest adjacent atom is comparatively large; why, that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered a solid!

I respond by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a hallucination, for we're not actually seeing the barstool, we're processing electric signals in our heads generated by our optic nevrves that claim certain wavelengths of ligh have bounced off an object, but none of that says anything about whether or not the barstool actually exists.


Then ECH comes along, picks up the barstool, and proceeds to beat the shit out of us with it for being such pretentious assholes.
Cool to use this?

Not a problem. KopyLeft.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Cain on February 21, 2012, 02:46:01 pm
Im reminded of something from a modern philosophy course...Can't remember if it was a response to Berkeley or what but there is this famous response to an argument regarding sense-skepticism and the critic of the argument goes "I refute him thusly" and kicks a nearby stone. I like the forum version much better.

Yeah, I think it was possibly Samuel Johnson.

Personally, I always liked Avicenna's refutation of those who denied the law of non-contradiction:

Quote
Anyone who denies the Law of Non-contradiction should be beaten and burned until he admits that to be beaten is not the same as not to be beaten, and to be burned is not the same as to not be burned.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: LuciferX on September 09, 2012, 09:01:24 am
Categorically, reason dictates that denying the principle of non-contradiction must be identical to supporting it.  Otherwise, I do generally think that PNC must be overcome to move from the elemental to the natural light of understanding.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 31, 2014, 06:21:31 pm
Thread split per OP request.  Removed sections sent to The Peanut Gallery on account of classic and epic butthurt.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: JamesStrangefellow on May 19, 2014, 03:07:45 am
I'll get through all the pages eventually, but isn't really about the bond between molecules?

No surprise that covalent bonds are the strongest bonds, formed by not so strong ions...  paradox alert!

Sharing > Bogarting

Please don't hit me with a barstool.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2014, 03:08:33 am
I'll get through all the pages eventually, but isn't really about the bond between molecules?

No surprise that covalent bonds are the strongest bonds, formed by not so strong ions...  paradox alert!

Sharing > Bogarting

Please don't hit me with a barstool.
I think I'm beginning to fucking hate you.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: JamesStrangefellow on May 19, 2014, 01:31:55 pm
I'll get through all the pages eventually, but isn't really about the bond between molecules?

No surprise that covalent bonds are the strongest bonds, formed by not so strong ions...  paradox alert!

Sharing > Bogarting

Please don't hit me with a barstool.
I think I'm beginning to fucking hate you.

we could just love each other instead.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2014, 02:11:18 pm
I'll get through all the pages eventually, but isn't really about the bond between molecules?

No surprise that covalent bonds are the strongest bonds, formed by not so strong ions...  paradox alert!

Sharing > Bogarting

Please don't hit me with a barstool.
I think I'm beginning to fucking hate you.

we could just love each other instead.

No.  No, we couldn't.  I have this monster ego thing, you see, based on capitalized I's.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: rong on May 19, 2014, 09:36:56 pm

No.  No, we couldn't.  I have this monster ego thing, you see, based on capitalized I's.

i think with a lot more effort than it's probably worth - you could make some sort of joke about how there's no "I" in "ego"
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: JamesStrangefellow on May 20, 2014, 12:54:51 pm
I'll get through all the pages eventually, but isn't really about the bond between molecules?

No surprise that covalent bonds are the strongest bonds, formed by not so strong ions...  paradox alert!

Sharing > Bogarting

Please don't hit me with a barstool.
I think I'm beginning to fucking hate you.

we could just love each other instead.

No.  No, we couldn't.  I have this monster ego thing, you see, based on capitalized I's.

i love your small penis though. it makes mine feel like wilt chamberlain.   :lulz:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2014, 02:14:32 pm
I'll get through all the pages eventually, but isn't really about the bond between molecules?

No surprise that covalent bonds are the strongest bonds, formed by not so strong ions...  paradox alert!

Sharing > Bogarting

Please don't hit me with a barstool.
I think I'm beginning to fucking hate you.

we could just love each other instead.

No.  No, we couldn't.  I have this monster ego thing, you see, based on capitalized I's.

i love your small penis though. it makes mine feel like wilt chamberlain.   :lulz:

Meh.  Pledge.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 20, 2014, 06:25:33 pm
(http://www.maids4hirenj.com/img/upload/3477/pledge.jpg)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Telarus on May 21, 2014, 07:21:58 pm
(http://www.maids4hirenj.com/img/upload/3477/pledge.jpg)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 22, 2014, 07:05:50 pm
After the inevitable explosion is over, I will clean this thread.  AGAIN.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: zarathustrasbastardson on February 04, 2015, 01:28:23 am
You break it down to rules of which we have none
(But should seriously think about employing)
DOLEMITE '16
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 04, 2015, 04:04:51 am
You break it down to rules of which we have none
(But should seriously think about employing)
DOLEMITE '16

(http://www.maids4hirenj.com/img/upload/3477/pledge.jpg)
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: zarathustrasbastardson on February 05, 2015, 12:55:20 am
I, from the great state of vagina, elect with 3.1 billion votes that can of pledge to take us to a new yet glorious future
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 05, 2015, 01:23:37 am
I, from the great state of vagina, elect with 3.1 billion votes that can of pledge to take us to a new yet glorious future

Are you back on your meds?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 05, 2015, 07:00:43 am
I, from the great state of vagina, elect with 3.1 billion votes that can of pledge to take us to a new yet glorious future

Are you back on your meds?

 :lulz:
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 05, 2015, 07:38:01 am
I, from the great state of vagina, elect with 3.1 billion votes that can of pledge to take us to a new yet glorious future

Are you back on your meds?

 :lulz:

I was being serious, actually.  He's a nutter of the same league as Pope Ludicrous.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 05, 2015, 05:36:26 pm
I, from the great state of vagina, elect with 3.1 billion votes that can of pledge to take us to a new yet glorious future

Are you back on your meds?

 :lulz:

I was being serious, actually.  He's a nutter of the same league as Pope Ludicrous.

Oh, ok. I thought it was a culturally-embedded riff on the old "off your meds" joke, hinging on the fact that many popular meds now can cause dissociative states, delusions, hallucinations, hypergraphia, etc.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: zarathustrasbastardson on February 07, 2015, 02:15:33 am
I find myself sucked in
again by prototypical elitism.
If there were no you
would there be me?
Ponder profusely;
If there were no me
 would there be you?

- a/'the' poet
nice raunchy falcon pic
why do American girls have to be so rough?
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: Doktor Howl on February 09, 2015, 01:57:47 am
I find myself sucked in
again by prototypical elitism.

Well, you know how it is.

Quote
why do American girls have to be so rough?

We like 'em that way.
Title: Re: The Barstool Experiment
Post by: zarathustrasbastardson on February 09, 2015, 11:14:32 pm
Ballsac crap shit
nefertitties eat robust @ olive unich :fnord: