Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Or Kill Me => Topic started by: The Johnny on October 07, 2009, 05:38:57 am

Title: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 07, 2009, 05:38:57 am

The modern aesthetical ideal of "skinny", the reason behind it has been attributed to runway models and mass media; in a certain way this is true, but this is a superficial vision of causality, from some previous place this must have come from...

When a person appears in TV, they seem to have more weight than in a direct "real life" visual appreciation. Assuming this is true, we can derivate taht, thru the importance of mass media in the transmission of aesthetical ideals, and due to this visual effect, multiple people started to adapt their bodyweights (or this kinds of persons were chosen for this medium) to what this "look-good-in-TV" required. And this is what caused the change of the notion of beauty, of a healthy weight towards a low weight, which in circumstances not so rare, floats in the limits between eating disorders and obsessive compulsive behaviour.

Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 07:38:40 am
Ah I had to read this twice to get your point. With weight, you mean actual bodyweight, as in "the camera adds a few pounds". I interpreted it as "importance" or "authority" first and it got kind of confusing :)

I always wondered, is this "the camera adds a few pounds" actually really true?

I mean, I heard it, but I never really thought more of it than "one of those things that are said". But I don't know. Let me phrase this differently, these days we can see ourselves on video quite often, if we want to. Anyone have experience with looking fatter on camera than IRL? Cause I don't. I know, I'm skinny, but I'm neither more or less skinny when I see myself back on camera. It's even less weird than when I hear myself speak on tape. The only thing that surprises me is the sort of jangly, bouncy way I move around most of the time, but that's one of my features, apparently.

Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Requia ☣ on October 07, 2009, 08:08:01 am
Supposedly there's some primal mechanism in humans that says fat is only good in uncertain times, skinny becomes the big thing thanks to the incredible prosperity we used to have.  There was a study done on Playboy models and the economy, that demonstrates a correlation (Jungeberg 2004).  Should be interesting to see how things go when people realize that the economy isn't going to get better for a long time.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: LMNO on October 07, 2009, 01:51:38 pm
Supposedly there's some primal mechanism in humans that says fat is only good in uncertain times, skinny becomes the big thing thanks to the incredible prosperity we used to have.  There was a study done on Playboy models and the economy, that demonstrates a correlation (Jungeberg 2004).  Should be interesting to see how things go when people realize that the economy isn't going to get better for a long time.


Hopefully, it means I'll be pretty sometime soon.



LMNO
-fat, old bastard.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 03:19:07 pm
Americans are funny.  A nation of fat bastards obsessed with an emaciated minority.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Cain on October 07, 2009, 03:39:37 pm
Ah I had to read this twice to get your point. With weight, you mean actual bodyweight, as in "the camera adds a few pounds". I interpreted it as "importance" or "authority" first and it got kind of confusing :)

I always wondered, is this "the camera adds a few pounds" actually really true?

I mean, I heard it, but I never really thought more of it than "one of those things that are said". But I don't know. Let me phrase this differently, these days we can see ourselves on video quite often, if we want to. Anyone have experience with looking fatter on camera than IRL? Cause I don't. I know, I'm skinny, but I'm neither more or less skinny when I see myself back on camera. It's even less weird than when I hear myself speak on tape. The only thing that surprises me is the sort of jangly, bouncy way I move around most of the time, but that's one of my features, apparently.



It seems to be true.  My dad has been filmed before, on local news, and he certainly looked bulkier than he normally does.  I think it has to do with the quality of the cameras they use, as well as the dimensions.

Or simply since we're so used to putting thin, beautiful people on TV that when someone fairly average is put on, they appear bloated by comparison.  One or the other.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 04:24:36 pm
Hm yeah, could be a lens thing.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on October 07, 2009, 07:55:09 pm
Extra weight on camera happens because of lighting/shadows and the conversion from a 3D model to 2D. Or at least that's what I learned from the old engineer that trained me.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 07, 2009, 08:05:44 pm

Does that mean that black people look way fatter?
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Dimocritus on October 15, 2009, 08:11:22 pm
The idea of beauty has, no doubt, changed. Back in "the day" thicker women with wider hips were deemed more attractive because it was an indicator of healthy fertility. A woman that fit that description was less at risk for complications or death from giving birth. Maybe our concepts of beauty have changed to appreciate the thinner woman because, deep down, we know that this world can't stand having any more idiots brought into a world already stuffed full of them.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: LMNO on October 15, 2009, 08:15:56 pm
Y'all probably won't believe me, but for me a lot of a woman's beauty comes from their face. 

I won't lie: A well-proportioned rack and a tight, full ass will turn my head, but it's only a fleeting reaction if I don't like their face.

For the most part, the surgical fixes for faces are pretty horrible at this point.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Dimocritus on October 15, 2009, 08:29:07 pm
Y'all probably won't believe me, but for me a lot of a woman's beauty comes from their face. 

I won't lie: A well-proportioned rack and a tight, full ass will turn my head, but it's only a fleeting reaction if I don't like their face.

For the most part, the surgical fixes for faces are pretty horrible at this point.

I beleive you. Outside of a few more obvious and functionally purposeful features, men are genetically programmed to be attracted to eyes and lips.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: LMNO on October 15, 2009, 08:30:24 pm
:cn:


Sorry.  I personally agree, but still. 
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Dimocritus on October 15, 2009, 08:46:54 pm
   Found this in Academic Search Premier.

 Talking: Smack. By: Dixit, Jay, Psychology Today
Quote
The testosterone in saliva--and stimulation of our highly sensitive lips and tongues--may help trigger sex drive. Men exploit this, using kissing to induce sexual desire in women. Men may also unconsciously use kissing to assess the level of estrogen in a woman's saliva to determine her stage in the ovulation cycle and her fertility.

* TASTE TEST

Men are more likely than women to Initiate wet, open-mouthed, saliva-exchanging tongue kissing--since their senses of taste and smell are less acute, they need bigger, sloppier samples to gather enough information to assess compatibility.

* READ MY LIPS

The lips are nature's mood ring: They flush darker when a person is amused, signaling receptivity. Men are attracted to women with naturally large lips. which signal arousal and openness. Since lip plumpness peaks at age 14 in females, full lips also connote youth and good health.

I'll get back to you about the eyes.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 16, 2009, 12:20:34 am

Consensus about what is beautiful is something very relative.

I focus on skin tone, wide hips (that follow the waist-hip-ratio of .7X=X), and a flat stomach (from aerobic kind exersice, not anorexia nor anaerobic exersice). Also, im tired of fucking only seeing brown and hazel eyes around here.

I couldnt care less about lips.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Kai on October 16, 2009, 12:27:27 am

Consensus about what is beautiful is something very relative.

I focus on skin tone, wide hips (that follow the waist-hip-ratio of .7X=X), and a flat stomach (from aerobic kind exersice, not anorexia nor anaerobic exersice). Also, im tired of fucking only seeing brown and hazel eyes around here.

I couldnt care less about lips.

(http://static.biotech-weblog.com/biotech-weblog.com/imgname--van_der_woude_gene_irf6_implicated_in_skin_differentiation---50226711--images--cleft_lip.jpg)
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 16, 2009, 12:29:37 am

she doesnt have teeth either  :fap:

(No.)
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: BabylonHoruv on October 16, 2009, 02:04:45 am
and yet she is still oddly attractive.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 16, 2009, 02:32:54 am

Consensus about what is beautiful is something very relative.


NO.  IT ISN'T.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Suu on October 16, 2009, 03:53:31 am

Consensus about what is beautiful is something very relative.


NO.  IT ISN'T.

Sure it is. A person's idea of beauty falls back on what you are taught/brainwashed to be considered beautiful. ESPECIALLY through mass marketing, but also through cultural and social acceptances. Wouldn't it be relative to those factors?
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 16, 2009, 04:16:07 am

Within a mass-media framework, you are expected to say this:


NO.  IT ISN'T.

But its not true.

"For the idea of beauty is what WE tell you is objectively beautiful. Come and watch OUR representatives of the objective beauty, OUR BELOVED BRANGELINA !!!!"

Fucking fish faced skeleton.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 16, 2009, 04:16:35 am

Consensus about what is beautiful is something very relative.


NO.  IT ISN'T.

Sure it is. A person's idea of beauty falls back on what you are taught/brainwashed to be considered beautiful. ESPECIALLY through mass marketing, but also through cultural and social acceptances. Wouldn't it be relative to those factors?

How the hell is consensus relative?
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 16, 2009, 04:18:16 am

Consensus about what is beautiful is something very relative amongst different groups.


oh fuckit, idk if thats clearer, im gonna use my "not my first language" card this time
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 16, 2009, 04:26:48 am

Consensus about what is beautiful is something very relative.


NO.  IT ISN'T.

Sure it is. A person's idea of beauty falls back on what you are taught/brainwashed to be considered beautiful. ESPECIALLY through mass marketing, but also through cultural and social acceptances. Wouldn't it be relative to those factors?

NO.

ROGER PRIME IS NOW IN EFFECT.  NO ANEMIC MODELS THAT LOOK LIKE 14 YEAR OLD BOYS NEED APPLY.  BOOBS, ASS, LEGS, AND SOME FUCKING CURVES, PLS.  EVERYTHING ELSE IS MERE COMMENTARY.

TGRR,
WILL COMPROMISE ON A LEG.  MAYBE BOTH.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 16, 2009, 04:27:32 am

Within a mass-media framework, you are expected to say this:


NO.  IT ISN'T.

But its not true.

"For the idea of beauty is what WE tell you is objectively beautiful. Come and watch OUR representatives of the objective beauty, OUR BELOVED BRANGELINA !!!!"

Fucking fish faced skeleton.

OBEY YOUR RAIN GOD.  BRING ME WOMEN.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Dimocritus on October 16, 2009, 04:31:48 am
R-PRIME is fucking awesome. I'd try it but I'd probably just end up hurting myself...
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 16, 2009, 04:32:44 am
R-PRIME is fucking awesome. I'd try it but I'd probably just end up hurting myself...

If you do it wrong, you can blow your esophagus out.  Hurts.  Real bad.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Dimocritus on October 16, 2009, 04:38:19 am
Hurts.  Real bad.

Pain is an illusion.

you can blow your esophagus out.

The esophagus, however, is quite real.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 16, 2009, 04:40:22 am
Your object in the sentence is still consensus. Your sentence is calling consensus relative. Haha!
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 16, 2009, 04:41:03 am

Consensus about what is beautiful is something very relative amongst different groups.


oh fuckit, idk if thats clearer, im gonna use my "not my first language" card this time

HEE HEE!
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 16, 2009, 04:42:24 am

(http://www.bolsonweb.com.ar/diariobolson/includes/imgartnew2/angelina/2.jpg)


(Br)anglelina cries herself to sleep each time an impresionable 12 year old jacks off to her picturez
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 16, 2009, 04:43:45 am

(http://tiscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/angelina-jolie-anorxia.jpg)


ohh yah, my bony cunt will saw off your prepubescent dork !!!!!!!!
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 16, 2009, 04:44:28 am
Pain is an illusion.

If that's your opinion, then you haven't seen a proper ass kicking.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 16, 2009, 04:44:50 am

(http://tiscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/angelina-jolie-anorxia.jpg)


ohh yah, my bony cunt will saw off your prepubescent dork !!!!!!!!

Jesus.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 16, 2009, 04:47:41 am

Me, the movie industry and nub gossipTM say that shes the hottest thing around!!!!!

How DARE you use the name of god in vain to imply she isnt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 16, 2009, 04:52:48 am

The beautiful about consensus is relative what amongst different groups.

The consensus amongst different groups of what is beautiful is very relative different.

Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 16, 2009, 05:18:33 am

The beautiful about consensus is relative what amongst different groups.

The consensus amongst different groups of what is beautiful is very relative different.



Different groups at different times have disparate consensus about beauty.

Except that is not necessarily true. There are a few constants about the perception of human physical beauty, such as symmetry.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Johnny on October 16, 2009, 05:32:01 am

In a very abstract take on this... beauty is related to ideals and attraction to fertility/health.

Usually asymmetry in physical parts of the body means a malformation and thus, lack of health.

I guess.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Triple Zero on October 16, 2009, 09:05:24 am
hxx://tiscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/angelina-jolie-anorxia.jpg[/img]

fuck

can we maybe fucking agree to not post pictures of mutilated bodies except in the "tools for tools" thread?

i have a few friends that went through episodes like this (yes they looked like that) and I really don't like to be reminded of.

you wouldnt fucking post pain series or other disorders for shock value either. just fucking think before you post next time, ok



anyway back on topic,

How the hell is consensus relative?

can you explain me how the hell it is not?

"Consensus in the English language is defined firstly as unanimous or general agreement; and secondly group solidarity of belief or sentiment."

now, really, think for a little moment. is "unanimous or general agreement" EVER universal? no such thing. it is ALWAYS relative to the group considering the belief.

i don't think there's a word for a universal worldwide belief, it wouldn't be a very useful word either.

and even then, if you insist that consensus be universal (dangerous idea IMO), then still, if somehow you were able to find a belief that is universally shared by everyone, it becomes objective? how's that work? sympathetic magics?
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on October 16, 2009, 11:34:15 am
hxx://tiscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/angelina-jolie-anorxia.jpg[/img]

fuck

can we maybe fucking agree to not post pictures of mutilated bodies except in the "tools for tools" thread?

i have a few friends that went through episodes like this (yes they looked like that) and I really don't like to be reminded of.

you wouldnt fucking post pain series or other disorders for shock value either. just fucking think before you post next time, ok


Fuck you! The assistant to my manicurist died from being reminded of episodes liek this  :argh!:
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on October 16, 2009, 01:54:41 pm

The beautiful about consensus is relative what amongst different groups.

The consensus amongst different groups of what is beautiful is very relative different.



They're all wrong.  I am right.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 16, 2009, 05:28:41 pm
How the hell is consensus relative?

can you explain me how the hell it is not?

"Consensus in the English language is defined firstly as unanimous or general agreement; and secondly group solidarity of belief or sentiment."

now, really, think for a little moment. is "unanimous or general agreement" EVER universal? no such thing. it is ALWAYS relative to the group considering the belief.

i don't think there's a word for a universal worldwide belief, it wouldn't be a very useful word either.

and even then, if you insist that consensus be universal (dangerous idea IMO), then still, if somehow you were able to find a belief that is universally shared by everyone, it becomes objective? how's that work? sympathetic magics?

Nonono. I was poking (tongue-in-cheek) fun of the fact that his sentence structure indicated that the concept of consensus ITSELF is relative, not the idea being considered for consensus.

SORRY, JUST GRAMMAR GEEKING. DISREGARD.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on October 16, 2009, 06:49:12 pm

The beautiful about consensus is relative what amongst different groups.

The consensus amongst different groups of what is beautiful is very relative different.



Different groups at different times have disparate consensus about beauty.

Except that is not necessarily true. There are a few constants about the perception of human physical beauty, such as symmetry.

not perfect symmetry mind, that freaks our brains out.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Requia ☣ on October 16, 2009, 09:08:47 pm
  Found this in Academic Search Premier.

 Talking: Smack. By: Dixit, Jay, Psychology Today
Quote
The testosterone in saliva--and stimulation of our highly sensitive lips and tongues--may help trigger sex drive. Men exploit this, using kissing to induce sexual desire in women. Men may also unconsciously use kissing to assess the level of estrogen in a woman's saliva to determine her stage in the ovulation cycle and her fertility.

* TASTE TEST

Men are more likely than women to Initiate wet, open-mouthed, saliva-exchanging tongue kissing--since their senses of taste and smell are less acute, they need bigger, sloppier samples to gather enough information to assess compatibility.

* READ MY LIPS

The lips are nature's mood ring: They flush darker when a person is amused, signaling receptivity. Men are attracted to women with naturally large lips. which signal arousal and openness. Since lip plumpness peaks at age 14 in females, full lips also connote youth and good health.

I'll get back to you about the eyes.

The study I mention found eyes to follow the same kind of patters relative to the general hardship measure with the eyes as it did with hips/height etc.  So yes those matter.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 16, 2009, 10:13:17 pm

The beautiful about consensus is relative what amongst different groups.

The consensus amongst different groups of what is beautiful is very relative different.



Different groups at different times have disparate consensus about beauty.

Except that is not necessarily true. There are a few constants about the perception of human physical beauty, such as symmetry.

not perfect symmetry mind, that freaks our brains out.

True. I don't think mammals are capable of perfect symmetry though, so what happens is our brains interpret perfectly symmetrical faces as artificial. Uncanny valley.
Title: Re: TV and the Idea of Beauty
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 16, 2009, 10:14:32 pm
  Found this in Academic Search Premier.

 Talking: Smack. By: Dixit, Jay, Psychology Today
Quote
The testosterone in saliva--and stimulation of our highly sensitive lips and tongues--may help trigger sex drive. Men exploit this, using kissing to induce sexual desire in women. Men may also unconsciously use kissing to assess the level of estrogen in a woman's saliva to determine her stage in the ovulation cycle and her fertility.

* TASTE TEST

Men are more likely than women to Initiate wet, open-mouthed, saliva-exchanging tongue kissing--since their senses of taste and smell are less acute, they need bigger, sloppier samples to gather enough information to assess compatibility.

* READ MY LIPS

The lips are nature's mood ring: They flush darker when a person is amused, signaling receptivity. Men are attracted to women with naturally large lips. which signal arousal and openness. Since lip plumpness peaks at age 14 in females, full lips also connote youth and good health.

I'll get back to you about the eyes.

The study I mention found eyes to follow the same kind of patters relative to the general hardship measure with the eyes as it did with hips/height etc.  So yes those matter.

Oh, I'm in luck then!

THANKS FOR BEING 1/2 BLACK, GRANDMA.