Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 02:27:28 pm

Title: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 02:27:28 pm
There's a certain type of Discordian that spends a lot of time worrying about Discordia's past, instead of its future.  I am not so much refering here to hobbyists and amateur historians such as Adam Gorightly (although the obsession with the founders many people have is a little strange), but rather the sort of person who obsesses over minor points in Discordian thinking that have been done to death for 10 years or more.

For example I spent an hour or so last night, going over a few "General Semantics" sites, including of course the facebook page.  While many fine points WERE made, none of these points were new.  All of these pages seemed to consist of people trying to show each other how jaded they were, how every ounce of human free will is "a story", among other spastic fits of solopsism.

Now, if that's how these folks get their rocks off, fine & dandy.  I am not here to get between them and their groove.  But, speaking personally, I can't decide which is more dismal:  the solopsism or the bog-standard primate pecking order games that seem to be continuous among even the established users...Without even the comic relief (or attempted comic relief) I have come to expect from Discordians.  These people are serious.  Perhaps that's the joke?

Also, this weird cult of personality that is re-emerging around Thornley, Hill, and Wilson.  There is nothing wrong with preserving some of that shit, you know, as a hobby...But to throw up newly-discovered pics and/or writing like it's the dead sea scrolls containing commandments 11-20 doesn't seem - to me - to be much more than some weird priesthood of sorts.  Yes, yes, you met/knew one of the originals, way the fuck back in the year dot.  Get over it.

These things, taken together, imply a certain level of stagnation that approaches Lutheranism, in which synods meet every so often to debate precendent going back to 1600 or so, with new thought being viewed as a direct affront to God.  Not to mention, of course, the urge that both above behaviors result in; cleansing the temple.  Lutherans spent 350 years griping about "creeping Calvinism", while these days, a certain type of person gets riled by Subgenius/Pastafarian/Last Thursdayist influences creeping into Discordia.

*ahem*

THEY WERE ALREADY IN DISCORDIA.

Because, if we're gonna quote holy writ, remember that ALL persons are Discordians.  ALL OF THEM.  This INCLUDES these other, lesser churches, NOT TO MENTION all the "mundane" religions such as Catholicism, Jainism, and even pro wrasslin' fans.
 
So, again, I am not here to tell you how to behave or what ought to set off your monkey, but it seems to me that the urge for old-timey and/or so-called esoteric studies are in many circumstances a case of not being able to see the forest for the trees.  Discordia encompasses so much fun weirdness, it is so vast, that it seems kind of weird - in my opinion, mind you - to sit down and obsess over one small part of it.

At this point, I was going to go a little further into the free will thing mentioned above, but it seems to me that it might require an entire rant of its own.

Or Kill Me.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Hoopla! on March 25, 2014, 04:57:59 pm
Yes!  This speaks to me.  I was opposed to PD2006 when it was proposed waaaaay back in the day, but I realize now how wrong I was. 

If you see Malaclypse the Younger on the road, kill him and fuck his corpse until they drag you away laughing and crying.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 05:05:21 pm
Yes!  This speaks to me.  I was opposed to PD2006 when it was proposed waaaaay back in the day, but I realize now how wrong I was. 

If you see Malaclypse the Younger on the road, kill him and fuck his corpse until they drag you away laughing and crying.

Hell yes.

The main issue I was addressing was the General Semantics thing, which (both on FB and on other sites) seems to be a dozen people saying the same things at each other non-stop, most of which has to do with a weird determinist nihilism that is so dismal, I'd fucking shoot myself in the face if I found myself believing in it.  And, as with basically all internet groups, anyone arguing the basic premise (rather than debating the fine points) is given the usual treatment, though with less hostility and more blanket-huffing.

For example, I was told that believing in free will means that I believe everyone has to be exactly alike.

I have NO FUCKING CLUE how that conclusion was reached, and explanations were not forthcoming.

This is something we've seen in ourselves, here at PD (although the GS crowd are far worse when it comes to jargon).  There is a large collection of issues that we have debated into the ground, and which we are not willing to rehash endlessly for new people.  You really CAN'T, but if you DON'T, then to anyone on the outside, you are completely incomprehensible.  I am unsure how that can be handled.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on March 25, 2014, 05:32:13 pm
Well, on LessWrong, they've archived a lot of their posts into "Sequences", which pretty much spell it out for you.

I feel that BIP, Common Walls, and even an Intermittens or two were building up to that same kind of thing.  We hash something out, we come to some sort of tentative consensus, and then make something we can point to if anyone asks.


And let's not forget the Peanut Gallery!  An entire repository of Don't Do This.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 05:42:14 pm
Well, on LessWrong, they've archived a lot of their posts into "Sequences", which pretty much spell it out for you.

I feel that BIP, Common Walls, and even an Intermittens or two were building up to that same kind of thing.  We hash something out, we come to some sort of tentative consensus, and then make something we can point to if anyone asks.


And let's not forget the Peanut Gallery!  An entire repository of Don't Do This.

I've often thought that we could eliminate/combine a few forums and then stick a "best of" forum and/or an FAQ alongside the Peanut Gallery.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 05:48:59 pm
I can't seem to turn notifications off at the FB GS page.

So I have learned that I have used unauthorized words/terminology with respect to general semantics.

 :lulz:

What the actual fuck.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 05:56:01 pm
Well, they admit to having a uniform, which very well may be a first.

I am now fascinated.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on March 25, 2014, 06:01:38 pm
I can't seem to turn notifications off at the FB GS page.

So I have learned that I have used unauthorized words/terminology with respect to general semantics.

 :lulz:

What the actual fuck.

Wait, what?

THE TOOLS HAVE BECOME THE MASTERS.







I just realized that has more than one meaning.






UCWHUTIDIDTHERE?
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:09:41 pm
UCWHUTIDIDTHERE?

Yep.   :lulz:

I love the idea that you can outlaw certain words in a conversation about semantics.  Which is totally not a means of propping up a dumbass argument.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on March 25, 2014, 06:10:58 pm
Which of the verboten words did you utter, you contemptible beast?
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:15:19 pm
Which of the verboten words did you utter, you contemptible beast?

Here you go.

Quote
Hamish Howl  BALLS. People who say "free will is a story" are just miserable bastards who are afraid of being alive.16 hours ago · Like

Heron Stone isn't it interesting how some people project their own motivations onto others
that's a reasonable methodology... right... we're all the same... right?  NOTE: WTF?

Costel Stan @Hamish Howl - Actually, Free Will sits (or stands up, if you prefer) on a foundation of stories. Actually, I think the term "illegitimate" is not suitable to describe the "People who say "free will is a story"' and about who you say that they "are just miserable bastards who are afraid of being alive" (the map, in this case), as long as, even though they would be miserable, they have every right to be afraid, at least just as anyone else would. Perhaps fear is that that keeps them alive, or perhaps this is their way. Anyway, they are "legitimate" (or "non-bastard" if you like more). So, I have some serious doubts that "miserable bastards" is a GS term.

(Blue colored text added by me, bolded at the end is the money shot.)
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 25, 2014, 06:16:49 pm
I've just thought of a cool forum mod, if anyone can be arsed, compile a database of PD memes with links to the thread where they either started or were best explained/debated/hashed out, etc. Then parse any posts for keywords (BIP, "Fart Huffing" and the like) if found, convert the phrase to a link to the "definition" topic. Anyone new wants to know wtf something means they can click.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:17:20 pm
Then this happened:

Quote
Dwayne Poloway   Actually guys, there just might be a uniform; science-mathematics-GS-religion-spirituality-etc must converge in a confluence of thought streams in order for structure to flow together.

So much wow woo.

Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:18:15 pm
I've just thought of a cool forum mod, if anyone can be arsed, compile a database of PD memes with links to the thread where they either started or were best explained/debated/hashed out, etc. Then parse any posts for keywords (BIP, "Fart Huffing" and the like) if found, convert the phrase to a link to the "definition" topic. Anyone new wants to know wtf something means they can click.

We've been bouncing something similar around, but your way is, I think, better.

We could also link to various things in the intro thread.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on March 25, 2014, 06:30:45 pm
Which of the verboten words did you utter, you contemptible beast?

Here you go.

Quote
Hamish Howl  BALLS. People who say "free will is a story" are just miserable bastards who are afraid of being alive.16 hours ago · Like

Heron Stone isn't it interesting how some people project their own motivations onto others
that's a reasonable methodology... right... we're all the same... right?  NOTE: WTF?

Costel Stan @Hamish Howl - Actually, Free Will sits (or stands up, if you prefer) on a foundation of stories. Actually, I think the term "illegitimate" is not suitable to describe the "People who say "free will is a story"' and about who you say that they "are just miserable bastards who are afraid of being alive" (the map, in this case), as long as, even though they would be miserable, they have every right to be afraid, at least just as anyone else would. Perhaps fear is that that keeps them alive, or perhaps this is their way. Anyway, they are "legitimate" (or "non-bastard" if you like more). So, I have some serious doubts that "miserable bastards" is a GS term.

(Blue colored text added by me, bolded at the end is the money shot.)

Whooo....



(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-z8JPQNoyLwA/UzHZU5D1_8I/AAAAAAAAA9c/r_O5SgFxfHg/w576-h396-no/You+are+here+the+point.bmp)
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:31:41 pm
Which of the verboten words did you utter, you contemptible beast?

Here you go.

Quote
Hamish Howl  BALLS. People who say "free will is a story" are just miserable bastards who are afraid of being alive.16 hours ago · Like

Heron Stone isn't it interesting how some people project their own motivations onto others
that's a reasonable methodology... right... we're all the same... right?  NOTE: WTF?

Costel Stan @Hamish Howl - Actually, Free Will sits (or stands up, if you prefer) on a foundation of stories. Actually, I think the term "illegitimate" is not suitable to describe the "People who say "free will is a story"' and about who you say that they "are just miserable bastards who are afraid of being alive" (the map, in this case), as long as, even though they would be miserable, they have every right to be afraid, at least just as anyone else would. Perhaps fear is that that keeps them alive, or perhaps this is their way. Anyway, they are "legitimate" (or "non-bastard" if you like more). So, I have some serious doubts that "miserable bastards" is a GS term.

(Blue colored text added by me, bolded at the end is the money shot.)

Whooo....



(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-z8JPQNoyLwA/UzHZU5D1_8I/AAAAAAAAA9c/r_O5SgFxfHg/w576-h396-no/You+are+here+the+point.bmp)

:?  What am I missing?  It seemed pretty clear.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on March 25, 2014, 06:34:59 pm
It's them's that's missing the point.

He used "afraid of life" as an argument about "miserable bastards".

Also, no mention of "illegitimate" prior to his own post, so that's a clear misuse of language on his side.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:37:23 pm
It's them's that's missing the point.

He used "afraid of life" as an argument about "miserable bastards".

Oh, okay.  I was worried that I was missing something obvious.

Quote
Also, no mention of "illegitimate" prior to his own post, so that's a clear misuse of language on his side.

I dismissed that as incomprehensible jargon.  I THINK it means "not accepted by this group".
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Johnny on March 25, 2014, 06:37:28 pm
I would say, hold a bit of respect for what they did in their past context... but in a symbolycal sense one has to kill its idols, try to outbest them.... were nit doing them a favour by rehashing their words instead of building above and beyond them.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:37:57 pm
I would say, hold a bit of respect for what they did in their past context... but in a symbolycal sense one has to kill its idols, try to outbest them.... were nit doing them a favour by rehashing their words instead of building above and beyond them.

I just walked out the door and went looking for something less fossilized.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Johnny on March 25, 2014, 06:44:28 pm

And TBH, from what little i know about science, i do believe in determinism.

BUT, i act and pretend AS IF we did have will and accountability for our actions - theres no net benefit in acting umder assumption of determinism.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:46:14 pm

And TBH, from what little i know about science, i do believe in determinism.

BUT, i act and pretend AS IF we did have will and accountability for our actions - theres no net benefit in acting umder assumption of determinism.

I reject determinism on account of Papa Hemmingway and Rudyard Kipling.  I am more than a jumped-up vertebrate.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Johnny on March 25, 2014, 06:50:13 pm
Assuming a closed universe, we have done and will do the same sequence of actions for basicly, eternity.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:51:45 pm
Assuming a closed universe, we have done and will do the same sequence of actions for basicly, eternity.

You might.  I'm gonna go to THE GAY BAR.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on March 25, 2014, 06:55:13 pm
Assuming a closed universe, we have done and will do the same sequence of actions for basicly, eternity.

Why assume a closed universe?
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:56:16 pm
Assuming a closed universe, we have done and will do the same sequence of actions for basicly, eternity.

Why assume a closed universe?

I thought that the universe was massive enough to be closed.  Hasn't that been settled?  Why do we PAY physicists, may I ask?
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on March 25, 2014, 06:56:57 pm
We pay them?
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Pæs on March 25, 2014, 06:57:06 pm
Assuming a closed universe, we have done and will do the same sequence of actions for basicly, eternity.

Why assume a closed universe?

Assuming a bored forum, we have covered and will eventually cover again the same arguments for/against determinism for basically eternity.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 06:57:24 pm
We pay them?

If we don't...WHO THE FUCK DOES?   :eek:
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 25, 2014, 06:58:02 pm
I just don't grok the dichotomy. Free will and determinism are two different perspectives. A phenomenon appraised from two points of view. Objectively the fact that all our actions and choices are determined by the complex interactions of molecules. Every action or choice we ever make is utterly dictated by the motion of small things in accordance with the laws of physics.

Subjectively, free will is obvious. Because now we're not looking at consciousness from the point of view of molecules. We're looking at molecules from the point of view of consciousness.

The whole argument strikes me a philosophical wankery at it's most ridiculous. I've a tendency to side with the free will believers tho, just because they exercise their own free will to believe in free will, whereas determinists exercise their own free will to not believe in free will.

Philosophy can be retarded sometimes
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Pæs on March 25, 2014, 06:58:30 pm
Assuming a closed universe, we have done and will do the same sequence of actions for basicly, eternity.

Why assume a closed universe?

I thought that the universe was massive enough to be closed.  Hasn't that been settled?  Why do we PAY physicists, may I ask?

The Universe is closed between the hours of 5pm and 9am, as well as on weekends and public holidays. Sometimes it wraps up early on a Friday to go THE GAY BAR.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 07:02:38 pm
Objectively the fact that all our actions and choices are determined by the complex interactions of molecules. Every action or choice we ever make is utterly dictated by the motion of small things in accordance with the laws of physics.

Maybe for you.  I am a person, and I am fueled by CONCENTRATED DUMBASS, which defies physics and THE TERROR OF THE GODS THEMSELVES.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 07:03:02 pm
Assuming a closed universe, we have done and will do the same sequence of actions for basicly, eternity.

Why assume a closed universe?

I thought that the universe was massive enough to be closed.  Hasn't that been settled?  Why do we PAY physicists, may I ask?

The Universe is closed between the hours of 5pm and 9am, as well as on weekends and public holidays. Sometimes it wraps up early on a Friday to go THE GAY BAR.

 :lulz:

TOTAL VICTORY.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Idem on March 25, 2014, 07:03:18 pm
All of these pages seemed to consist of people trying to show each other how jaded they were, how every ounce of human free will is "a story", among other spastic fits of solopsism.

This kind of behavior, I think, is in large part responsible for the suppression of new ideas. In their view, they will never achieve anything and the world will remain stagnant & terrible. Because of this cynicism, people can profess to be open-minded and liberal while at the same time eschewing any new ideas. It's worse than countercultures fueled by candyfloss and good feelings.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Johnny on March 25, 2014, 07:15:00 pm
Assuming a closed universe, we have done and will do the same sequence of actions for basicly, eternity.

Why assume a closed universe?

I too thought that a closed universe was a given, but if you are more up to date you could explain?

Pent speaks of how we are physically bound and determined but also that our consciousness automatically negates that... but that very well could be the illussion of free will.

Anyhow, for those that missed it, i act AS IF we had free will and accountability for our actions.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: President Television on March 25, 2014, 07:19:10 pm
It's them's that's missing the point.

He used "afraid of life" as an argument about "miserable bastards".

Oh, okay.  I was worried that I was missing something obvious.

Quote
Also, no mention of "illegitimate" prior to his own post, so that's a clear misuse of language on his side.

I dismissed that as incomprehensible jargon.  I THINK it means "not accepted by this group".

I think he took "bastard" literally. I think he thought you were calling them miserable illegitimate offspring. That is exactly how thoroughly he missed the point.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Hoopla! on March 25, 2014, 07:23:19 pm
It's them's that's missing the point.

He used "afraid of life" as an argument about "miserable bastards".

Oh, okay.  I was worried that I was missing something obvious.

Quote
Also, no mention of "illegitimate" prior to his own post, so that's a clear misuse of language on his side.

I dismissed that as incomprehensible jargon.  I THINK it means "not accepted by this group".

I think he took "bastard" literally. I think he thought you were calling them miserable illegitimate offspring. That is exactly how thoroughly he missed the point.

Yeah, that's what I gathered from it too.  There's a word for trolling be deliberately pretending you misunderstand something basic, but I can't recall it at the moment.  But, I suspect that is what is going on here.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 25, 2014, 07:26:51 pm
I like the OP, inasmuch as my brain is capable of really absorbing anything right now.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Sano on March 26, 2014, 12:48:12 pm
I just don't grok the dichotomy. Free will and determinism are two different perspectives. A phenomenon appraised from two points of view. Objectively the fact that all our actions and choices are determined by the complex interactions of molecules. Every action or choice we ever make is utterly dictated by the motion of small things in accordance with the laws of physics.

Subjectively, free will is obvious. Because now we're not looking at consciousness from the point of view of molecules. We're looking at molecules from the point of view of consciousness.

The whole argument strikes me a philosophical wankery at it's most ridiculous. I've a tendency to side with the free will believers tho, just because they exercise their own free will to believe in free will, whereas determinists exercise their own free will to not believe in free will.

Philosophy can be retarded sometimes

Hey, philosophy isn't stupid, (some) philosophers are.

Also, lots of people have come up with kind of the same answer you gave to the problem, except in a more refined way, which is of course to be expected since some of these people are getting paid to think about stuff like this: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 26, 2014, 02:43:57 pm
Apparently, this rant irritated Adam Gorightly, on FB.   :?
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on March 26, 2014, 02:45:35 pm
Did it look like this?

 :showus:
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 26, 2014, 02:47:21 pm
Did it look like this?

 :showus:

Very quietly, but I think that was what he was getting at.  I peed on his intellectual territory or something.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 26, 2014, 02:47:33 pm

Hey, philosophy isn't stupid, (some) philosophers are.

Also, lots of people have come up with kind of the same answer you gave to the problem, except in a more refined way, which is of course to be expected since some of these people are getting paid to think about stuff like this: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/

 :um:
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 26, 2014, 02:56:02 pm
I just don't grok the dichotomy. Free will and determinism are two different perspectives. A phenomenon appraised from two points of view. Objectively the fact that all our actions and choices are determined by the complex interactions of molecules. Every action or choice we ever make is utterly dictated by the motion of small things in accordance with the laws of physics.

Subjectively, free will is obvious. Because now we're not looking at consciousness from the point of view of molecules. We're looking at molecules from the point of view of consciousness.

The whole argument strikes me a philosophical wankery at it's most ridiculous. I've a tendency to side with the free will believers tho, just because they exercise their own free will to believe in free will, whereas determinists exercise their own free will to not believe in free will.

Philosophy can be retarded sometimes

Hey, philosophy isn't stupid, (some) philosophers are.

Also, lots of people have come up with kind of the same answer you gave to the problem, except in a more refined way, which is of course to be expected since some of these people are getting paid to think about stuff like this: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/

 :lulz: Since when do philosophy grad students get paid?
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Sano on March 26, 2014, 03:37:27 pm
Not grad students, the professors themselves... And well, some places do pay people a bit while they're writing their PhD thesis, don't they?
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Hoopla! on March 26, 2014, 03:41:22 pm
From what I hear, the way to get your philosophy stuck into the public consciousness is to write it into a crude fictional form. Wait for a personality cult to form around you, at which point you start an affair with your closest sycophant. For intellectual purposes, of course. And finally... profit.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Sano on March 26, 2014, 03:49:47 pm
Well, I didn't say people get rich working on philosophy. But still some do make kinda liveable wages. As in, you know, it is still a thing that gets taught at many universities around the world, and some people do dedicate their entire careers to it.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on March 26, 2014, 04:01:47 pm
And some people dedicate their careers to promoting intelligent design.  Doesn't mean it's something to be proud of.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Cain on March 26, 2014, 04:04:30 pm
Actually, nevermind.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on March 26, 2014, 04:07:36 pm
Oh, you know I was only kidding.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 26, 2014, 04:12:27 pm
Don't get me wrong, I fucking love philosophy but I do have a problem in that it comes across sometimes as science. Even the word "Metaphysics" has physics in it but it's not science, it's art. We'd do well to remember that, imho.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Hoopla! on March 26, 2014, 04:16:49 pm
Don't get me wrong, I fucking love philosophy but I do have a problem in that it comes across sometimes as science. Even the word "Metaphysics" has physics in it but it's not science, it's art. We'd do well to remember that, imho.

You have a strong point, but many schools of philosophy base themselves around strong logical arguments.  Logic isn't entirely necessary for a lot of forms of art.  I would argue it isn't exactly art, sort of, but it sure isn't science.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Sano on March 26, 2014, 04:18:40 pm
Philosophy definitely isn't science IMO, but isn't exactly art either. But then again there isn't that much agreement on what philosophy is, which of course causes some confusion.

I do wonder what you guys think gets done in philosophy departments.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Hoopla! on March 26, 2014, 04:23:02 pm

I do wonder what you guys think gets done in philosophy departments.

(http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y522/Rex_Bologna/model_slides_33_zps6dd27aa6.jpg)
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Sano on March 26, 2014, 04:27:19 pm
:lulz:
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on March 26, 2014, 05:56:50 pm
They're quite obviously trying to produce weaponized ethics to use against the terrorists  :lulz:
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 26, 2014, 06:12:16 pm
 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Awesome piece TGRR!

I wandered around heavily in the past for awhile, back when it was new to me. Once I got through it though, I didn't see a need to get stuck in it. I still find some of the things I learned from looking at the past useful... but not in a way that should anchor us there.

As for the topic of determinism vs free will... I think the entire question is patently absurd. We can't yet put together a theory that unifies macro and quantum physics... how the hell can we even begin to make statements about macro and quantum behavior?
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2016, 04:25:04 am
I feel that it is worth mentioning that LMNO never told us who the fuck pays physicists.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 19, 2016, 06:08:36 am
I feel that it is worth mentioning that LMNO never told us who the fuck pays physicists.

Maybe it's best that we not go digging. I mean after the Panama papers and all, isn't there perhaps too much smoke in the air for such a... delicate matter? Hm?


Seriously though your observation was pretty much spot on about the weird idolatry of the "founders."

I was also very intrigued by some of the conversation about overcoming the jargon gap and talking about site structure here @ PD. I pretty much hit a brick wall when I try and explain Discordian terms, much less concepts unique to PD. I usually just bite the bullet and do my best to summarize.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LuciferX on May 19, 2016, 10:32:39 am
Enjoyed the piece.  Was thinking about:
Quote
For example, I was told that believing in free will means that I believe everyone has to be exactly alike.
I think it's someone reading free will backward.  Starting from the moral/practical conclusion that one must act in accordance to the categorical imperative, to ensure the autonomy of others to do the same (golden rule), they assume that everyone has be exactly alike.  It's not all that endearing.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on May 19, 2016, 02:26:30 pm
I feel that it is worth mentioning that LMNO never told us who the fuck pays physicists.

After doing a bit of digging, turns out it's... Philosophy Departments.


Huh.  Go figure.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 19, 2016, 02:30:14 pm
 :cpd:
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 19, 2016, 02:32:12 pm
I've just thought of a cool forum mod, if anyone can be arsed, compile a database of PD memes with links to the thread where they either started or were best explained/debated/hashed out, etc. Then parse any posts for keywords (BIP, "Fart Huffing" and the like) if found, convert the phrase to a link to the "definition" topic. Anyone new wants to know wtf something means they can click.

We've been bouncing something similar around, but your way is, I think, better.

We could also link to various things in the intro thread.

Like the Barstool halfpage & Big Words! You guys had talked it to death in a lot of places, but LMNO had a reasonable summary he'd written for some other new spag and I yoinked that for infecting people. This sounds like it'd be a fun scavenger hunt!
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on May 19, 2016, 02:35:04 pm
I did?

I have a memory like a sieve.  What did I say?
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 19, 2016, 02:46:32 pm
(http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.71975568.1656/flat,800x800,070,f.jpg)

It's from here: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=10125.0
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LMNO on May 19, 2016, 02:48:53 pm
Oooh, that one.  Right!
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Hoopla! on May 19, 2016, 04:20:03 pm
And it works, because Cainad can attest, those are almost precisely the exact words I used to describe the Barstool Experiment to my wife this past Sunday afternoon, as if it was lodged in my consciousness.

She liked it, btw.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2016, 04:37:32 pm
I feel that it is worth mentioning that LMNO never told us who the fuck pays physicists.

After doing a bit of digging, turns out it's... Philosophy Departments.


Huh.  Go figure.

I knew it.  Those bastards.  Plato's Cave, indeed.  Imagine you're in a ruin, and the only thing you can see are the shadows burned into the walls, so all you know is THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU FUCK WITH US and you can never really be free of this delusion because it's real and also because there are always more nukes and at some level you know that FUCKING WITH US ISN'T ACTUALLY NECESSARY.

Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on May 20, 2016, 08:26:08 pm
And it works, because Cainad can attest, those are almost precisely the exact words I used to describe the Barstool Experiment to my wife this past Sunday afternoon, as if it was lodged in my consciousness.

She liked it, btw.

True fact. It's a pretty durable narrative, probably because it involves smacking people.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: PoFP on May 20, 2016, 11:04:31 pm
First time seeing the OP:

Based on moderate reading of Korzybski, whom I understand to be the Father of General Semantics, I get the impression that these "General Semanticists" haven't a fucking clue what Korzybski meant by anything he said. As far as I know, Korzybski was not a Solipsist (These nerds appear to be) by any stretch of the imagination, and his explanation of his ideas seemed to go in the exact opposite direction of such conclusions. It appears to me, at this time, that it may be pointless to argue with any modern Semanticist, since they don't seem to understand their own argument, probably.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LuciferX on May 21, 2016, 02:39:24 am
If there is anything still worthy of hate, it is for those whom persist in doubting the existence of a world out there.
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 21, 2016, 09:23:50 am
Questioning shit that is apparent can yield future progress. Taking it at face value is what get's shit done right now. So yeah, maybe there is no tangible universe out there and, at some point in the future, this will be a really powerful paradigm. In the meantime I get to smash people in the face with barstools.

It's win/win  :lulz:
Title: Re: Discordian Grin: Old School Discordians.
Post by: LuciferX on May 22, 2016, 10:06:48 pm
I mean: they question, the universe answers.  I wouldn't get in the way of that. :lulz: