Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: Q. G. Pennyworth on January 25, 2018, 05:17:14 pm

Title: Sooooooo...
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on January 25, 2018, 05:17:14 pm
I joined a church? It's weird. The local UUs are, strange as this may sound, very nearly our kind of people. Like, the chair of the worship committee described it as "the church for people who burst into flames walking into other churches." Nobody talks about an afterlife. At. All. Nobody asks God to cure anybody of anything, nobody advocates being nice and letting sky pixies sort it out. The weekly prayer always includes something to the effect of "give us the balls to go fix this shit." The collection plate gets shared with lawyers who advocate for victims of sexual assault and charities serving Puerto Rico, the meeting hall gets used for meet the candidate events, and there are rainbow flags at the door and next to the altar. They hold discussions about systemic racism and white supremacy, they hold vigils on trans remembrance day, there are pagan-y services and the name tags include pronouns. The minister is a petite trans dude and the first time I saw him was at the pop-up "oh shit Nazis" in our town, and the first time I went in for a service was after those nazi fucks showed up in Boston and I cried like a bitch.
They really, genuinely, care about The Work, and they want to support the people doing it, and they want to do more of it themselves while keeping themselves sane. And yeah, they're not perfect, but they're queer and they're nice and they give a fuck and they fall down and get back up.

It's still super weird, you guys.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Cramulus on January 25, 2018, 05:36:52 pm
That's cool though! One of the drawbacks of our weird lunatic path is that we don't have a clergy as support network, we have internet trolls and other types of harpies. I've been considering checking out a local UU, I hear they're pretty easy going.

I kind of get the sense that UU is like the diet coke of religion though - they're so general and inclusive that they don't really have any specifics? Maybe good for us dogma-free wanderers.


I totally feel you about the weirdness of going to church. I've been thinking about JAYSUS a lot recently and it's super disorienting. Somebody pointed out a way to read jesus that makes him extremely relevant to my life, and so I'm riding it out until it gets uncomfortable. Thinking new thoughts, some of which are corrosive to older selves I've got archived. But if I start talking about Jesus randomly, my friends are going to think I've completely lost my shit so I try to keep my mouth shut, it's too alien.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on January 25, 2018, 05:47:08 pm
The biggest thing with UUs is that every parish is different. Some of them are barely disguised Catholics or Baptists, some of them are basically a social club for old people. And it's not even necessarily the same year to year. I actually made an attempt a few years back to join this church and noped the fuck out. In that time they took stock of who they were and what they wanted to do, and took a HUGE step over towards getting things done as opposed to navel gazing. Maybe 2016 shook them up, too, the way it shook up a lot of folks. Whatever happened, there's like, this whole community of people who are close to where I am in my head, and want to find and support people like me in the shit we're already doing. And holy shit do I need that, you don't even know.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on January 25, 2018, 06:10:50 pm
According to the internet I am a 93% match for UU-ism. Maybe I'll check it out. It's probably the closest thing I've seen to the "atheist church" I keep hoping will spring into existence. The real obstacle is that with everything tilted toward "moral support", what are the chances there's any high-protein-content spiritual guidance going on? I'm not really looking for religious authority, but it would be cool if there was a place that could teach me how to astral-project myself into the white house and force-choke someone.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on January 25, 2018, 06:21:49 pm
According to the internet I am a 93% match for UU-ism. Maybe I'll check it out. It's probably the closest thing I've seen to the "atheist church" I keep hoping will spring into existence. The real obstacle is that with everything tilted toward "moral support", what are the chances there's any high-protein-content spiritual guidance going on? I'm not really looking for religious authority, but it would be cool if there was a place that could teach me how to astral-project myself into the white house and force-choke someone.

It's entirely dependent on your local people. Force choking is probably not very likely, the few unifying things the UUs have are pretty clear on the non-violent stuff. The Satanic Temple (the folks with the headquarters in Salem MA, not one of the other groups) may be closer to your interests? I mean, they're still super atheists and unlikely to dick around with astral projection, but they're gonna be more supportive of the whole idea.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: LMNO on January 25, 2018, 06:58:34 pm
If I recall, a while back someone here gave a sermon at a UU about Discordia.  Details hazy, but well-received.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Cain on January 25, 2018, 07:31:58 pm
I totally feel you about the weirdness of going to church. I've been thinking about JAYSUS a lot recently and it's super disorienting. Somebody pointed out a way to read jesus that makes him extremely relevant to my life, and so I'm riding it out until it gets uncomfortable. Thinking new thoughts, some of which are corrosive to older selves I've got archived. But if I start talking about Jesus randomly, my friends are going to think I've completely lost my shit so I try to keep my mouth shut, it's too alien.

By and large, Jesus had a pretty good message.  It's trite I know, but the problem really is the fan-club (and especially certain very vocal segments of it).  The moral bankruptcy of, for example, the evangelical movement is plain for everyone to see, even well known evangelicals are struggling (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/17/is-jen-hatmaker-the-conscious-of-evangelical-christianity-216068) with what is going on there at the moment
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on January 25, 2018, 08:34:38 pm
Jesus had some pretty explicit anti-divorce shit I am not here for.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Cain on January 25, 2018, 09:35:35 pm
Sure, I didn't say he was perfect.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Doktor Howl on January 26, 2018, 12:53:22 am
That's cool though! One of the drawbacks of our weird lunatic path is that we don't have a clergy as support network,

I'M STANDING RIGHT HERE, YANNO.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: THE QLIPHITISER on January 26, 2018, 02:36:18 am
I joined a church? It's weird. The local UUs are, strange as this may sound, very nearly our kind of people. Like, the chair of the worship committee described it as "the church for people who burst into flames walking into other churches." Nobody talks about an afterlife. At. All. Nobody asks God to cure anybody of anything, nobody advocates being nice and letting sky pixies sort it out. The weekly prayer always includes something to the effect of "give us the balls to go fix this shit." The collection plate gets shared with lawyers who advocate for victims of sexual assault and charities serving Puerto Rico, the meeting hall gets used for meet the candidate events, and there are rainbow flags at the door and next to the altar. They hold discussions about systemic racism and white supremacy, they hold vigils on trans remembrance day, there are pagan-y services and the name tags include pronouns. The minister is a petite trans dude and the first time I saw him was at the pop-up "oh shit Nazis" in our town, and the first time I went in for a service was after those nazi fucks showed up in Boston and I cried like a bitch.
They really, genuinely, care about The Work, and they want to support the people doing it, and they want to do more of it themselves while keeping themselves sane. And yeah, they're not perfect, but they're queer and they're nice and they give a fuck and they fall down and get back up.

It's still super weird, you guys.

Unitarian Universalists? yep, they're cool  :)
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: THE QLIPHITISER on January 26, 2018, 02:55:34 am
According to the internet I am a 93% match for UU-ism. Maybe I'll check it out. It's probably the closest thing I've seen to the "atheist church" I keep hoping will spring into existence. The real obstacle is that with everything tilted toward "moral support", what are the chances there's any high-protein-content spiritual guidance going on? I'm not really looking for religious authority, but it would be cool if there was a place that could teach me how to astral-project myself into the white house and force-choke someone.


What online test is that?

I've been trying a few and none come up with my actual practices  :lulz:

I got Seventh day Adventist in one and Buddhist in the other  :eek: (Buddhist is way closer but still not close enough)
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on January 26, 2018, 10:20:18 am
I totally feel you about the weirdness of going to church. I've been thinking about JAYSUS a lot recently and it's super disorienting. Somebody pointed out a way to read jesus that makes him extremely relevant to my life, and so I'm riding it out until it gets uncomfortable. Thinking new thoughts, some of which are corrosive to older selves I've got archived. But if I start talking about Jesus randomly, my friends are going to think I've completely lost my shit so I try to keep my mouth shut, it's too alien.

By and large, Jesus had a pretty good message.  It's trite I know, but the problem really is the fan-club (and especially certain very vocal segments of it).

I always read the crucifixion as a meatphor for that. Like, you take all the cool shit the dude said and you nail it to a plank of wood and watch it rot  :lulz:
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 28, 2018, 04:35:58 am
Jesus had some pretty explicit anti-divorce shit I am not here for.

If memory serves (and I could well be wrong), the rationale behind the anti-divorce stuff is because of the societal realities of that time, place, and culture, where by and large men would initiate divorce and the divorced women would end up destitute and homeless. It seems fucked up from our perspective but put in context, it was more a way to prevent women from getting fucked over by dudes who wanted to trade in for something newer.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: LuciferX on January 28, 2018, 07:13:37 am
Plus, figuratively, one's union (with/of/to) the One can't really be undone.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Hoopla! on January 31, 2018, 03:47:31 am
I joined a church? It's weird. The local UUs are, strange as this may sound, very nearly our kind of people. Like, the chair of the worship committee described it as "the church for people who burst into flames walking into other churches." Nobody talks about an afterlife. At. All. Nobody asks God to cure anybody of anything, nobody advocates being nice and letting sky pixies sort it out. The weekly prayer always includes something to the effect of "give us the balls to go fix this shit." The collection plate gets shared with lawyers who advocate for victims of sexual assault and charities serving Puerto Rico, the meeting hall gets used for meet the candidate events, and there are rainbow flags at the door and next to the altar. They hold discussions about systemic racism and white supremacy, they hold vigils on trans remembrance day, there are pagan-y services and the name tags include pronouns. The minister is a petite trans dude and the first time I saw him was at the pop-up "oh shit Nazis" in our town, and the first time I went in for a service was after those nazi fucks showed up in Boston and I cried like a bitch.
They really, genuinely, care about The Work, and they want to support the people doing it, and they want to do more of it themselves while keeping themselves sane. And yeah, they're not perfect, but they're queer and they're nice and they give a fuck and they fall down and get back up.

It's still super weird, you guys.

It doesn't sound super weird to me at all. At all.

It sounds pretty fucking awesome.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on January 31, 2018, 05:32:00 am
I have actually been a member of my local UU church for a number of years now, and yea, i think the general sense of community was something i really needed for myself. I have all the loyalty of a stray cat when it comes to going there regularly, but whenever i go I leave feeling supported. I've met a lot of really nice people and while there seems to be some underlying gossip drama i try to not get into, it seems generally mild and i'm always struck by how nice and supportive they are about EVERYTHING. like you literally feel like you could start up a conversation about anything you've got going on in your life and they genuinely want to help, or at least listen. There's a significant pagan presence at the church, they do their own rituals after the main service, and even celebrate the major Pagan holidays in the main hall. Also, true story, it was in that church that i had the honor of DJing for the wedding of the two most adorable elderly lesbians you've ever seen.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Emo Howard on January 31, 2018, 07:05:37 am
I tried going to UU services a while back. I found it interesting, and refreshing that they exist, but not interesting enough to sit through.

Also, they were a bit too civilized for me.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 31, 2018, 11:31:46 am
I figured if I end up joining a church again it would probably be UU. I might be getting married in a UU church. We booked something else but Villager is entertaining the idea
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on January 31, 2018, 04:52:20 pm
Jesus had some pretty explicit anti-divorce shit I am not here for.

If memory serves (and I could well be wrong), the rationale behind the anti-divorce stuff is because of the societal realities of that time, place, and culture, where by and large men would initiate divorce and the divorced women would end up destitute and homeless. It seems fucked up from our perspective but put in context, it was more a way to prevent women from getting fucked over by dudes who wanted to trade in for something newer.

couldn't he have just said "don't be assholes to divorced women" ?
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 31, 2018, 06:08:01 pm
Jesus had some pretty explicit anti-divorce shit I am not here for.

If memory serves (and I could well be wrong), the rationale behind the anti-divorce stuff is because of the societal realities of that time, place, and culture, where by and large men would initiate divorce and the divorced women would end up destitute and homeless. It seems fucked up from our perspective but put in context, it was more a way to prevent women from getting fucked over by dudes who wanted to trade in for something newer.

couldn't he have just said "don't be assholes to divorced women" ?

That would be the preferred way to go about it, of course
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on January 31, 2018, 08:45:42 pm
Unitarians are pretty cool. The ones from my hometown were a bit kooky but very nice folks. I remember a bake sale for Haiti after the earthquake particularly well. There were Santeria folks there to judge by the color scheme of some of the clothing being worn. You never know what you can find out by just getting out and experiencing new venues. Glad you found what sounds like a good group Q.G.!
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Hoopla! on January 31, 2018, 08:46:55 pm
What prompted you to check the church out QG?
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on January 31, 2018, 09:15:35 pm
What prompted you to check the church out QG?

In August the Nazis had a rally on Boston Common and I burned myself all the way out screaming at elected officials to jump on the fire. At the event, I was presented with the opportunity to punch a Nazi and chose not to (for what I believe are good reasons that still keep in line with my general "punch the fucking Nazis" political stance). There were 40,000 people and it was tense and there were fights and I needed to process that shit, and the church is right outside the office building where we rent space, and they put up a sign about having a kind of "emergency" service/emotional support thing with all the Nazi shit going on. I'd seen the new Reverend at our local FUCK THE NAZIS IN PRINCIPAL event, he seemed like a good guy and I was falling down pretty hard, so I went.


This past Sunday, he let us know that his partner's father killed himself, and it's a hard thing to deal with. I went to his office hours and gave him some of the stuff I worked up for Holy Nonsense and another project I'm working on, because dealing with grief and depression is kinda all I do some days, and if I'm gonna sit here being a sadsack I'd better be able to sublimate SOME of that shit into something useful for another human.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on January 31, 2018, 09:31:40 pm
What prompted you to check the church out QG?

In August the Nazis had a rally on Boston Common and I burned myself all the way out screaming at elected officials to jump on the fire. At the event, I was presented with the opportunity to punch a Nazi and chose not to (for what I believe are good reasons that still keep in line with my general "punch the fucking Nazis" political stance). There were 40,000 people and it was tense and there were fights and I needed to process that shit, and the church is right outside the office building where we rent space, and they put up a sign about having a kind of "emergency" service/emotional support thing with all the Nazi shit going on. I'd seen the new Reverend at our local FUCK THE NAZIS IN PRINCIPAL event, he seemed like a good guy and I was falling down pretty hard, so I went.


This past Sunday, he let us know that his partner's father killed himself, and it's a hard thing to deal with. I went to his office hours and gave him some of the stuff I worked up for Holy Nonsense and another project I'm working on, because dealing with grief and depression is kinda all I do some days, and if I'm gonna sit here being a sadsack I'd better be able to sublimate SOME of that shit into something useful for another human.

Keep doing what you can Q.G.! I'm rooting for you and you have done so much already. I'll keep fighting too and one day have my shit together again. Keep you the faith!
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: Hoopla! on January 31, 2018, 09:32:07 pm
What prompted you to check the church out QG?

In August the Nazis had a rally on Boston Common and I burned myself all the way out screaming at elected officials to jump on the fire. At the event, I was presented with the opportunity to punch a Nazi and chose not to (for what I believe are good reasons that still keep in line with my general "punch the fucking Nazis" political stance). There were 40,000 people and it was tense and there were fights and I needed to process that shit, and the church is right outside the office building where we rent space, and they put up a sign about having a kind of "emergency" service/emotional support thing with all the Nazi shit going on. I'd seen the new Reverend at our local FUCK THE NAZIS IN PRINCIPAL event, he seemed like a good guy and I was falling down pretty hard, so I went.


This past Sunday, he let us know that his partner's father killed himself, and it's a hard thing to deal with. I went to his office hours and gave him some of the stuff I worked up for Holy Nonsense and another project I'm working on, because dealing with grief and depression is kinda all I do some days, and if I'm gonna sit here being a sadsack I'd better be able to sublimate SOME of that shit into something useful for another human.

I like to believe people like yourself outnumber the assholes. I really hope Iím right.

I think I may go check out our local UU church.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: LMNO on January 31, 2018, 10:55:35 pm
Right on, QG.   Sounds like the right thing for you to do.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on February 01, 2018, 11:49:37 am
Jesus had some pretty explicit anti-divorce shit I am not here for.

If memory serves (and I could well be wrong), the rationale behind the anti-divorce stuff is because of the societal realities of that time, place, and culture, where by and large men would initiate divorce and the divorced women would end up destitute and homeless. It seems fucked up from our perspective but put in context, it was more a way to prevent women from getting fucked over by dudes who wanted to trade in for something newer.



couldn't he have just said "don't be assholes to divorced women" ?

Probably did. There's been a lot of editing and rewriting since he gave his fictional sermons.
Title: Re: Sooooooo...
Post by: ReverendJesus on February 02, 2018, 06:39:50 am
our local FUCK THE NAZIS IN PRINCIPAL event
:mittens: