Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Principia Discussion => Topic started by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 03:53:57 pm

Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 03:53:57 pm
Oddly enough, this is about the PD.

Maybe I should ahve posted it in the "Recipies" forum.

Anyway, I was thinking about the order/disorder/creative/destructive chart, and my pineal gland said:

Creation
Destruction
-and-
Order
Disorder

Yields:

Creative order
Destructive order
Creative disorder
Destructive disorder

But:

Creation
-and-
Destruction
-and-
Order
-and-
Disorder

Yields:

Creative order
Creative disorder
Creative destruction

Destructive order
Destructive disorder
Destructive Creation

Orderly Disorder
Disorderly order



But what are these four new terms?  and how can we design a chart that reveals this new pineal insight?
Title: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 29, 2005, 03:56:38 pm
Well I think the order/disorder and creative/destructive are more time/linear based.   Imposing order now that leads to greater disorder, or the destruction now that leads to later creation, for example.  Dunno if that helps any, but it may clarify things somewhat.
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 04:03:11 pm
Clarify?  Nope, not really.

heh.


Could "Creative Destruction" be considered things like Einsturzende Neubauten's music, or the Artworks of Mark Pauline and Survival Research Laboratories?

Could "Destructive Creation" be considered bioengineering viruses and nuclear bombs?

Could "Orderly Disorder" be considered people like cat~maxwell, who are purposefully random, but are ultimately predictable?

Could "Disorderly Order" be considered passive-agressive, civil-disobedience protesters?


Any thoughts?
Title: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 29, 2005, 04:07:32 pm
I think those were exactly the sort of things I have been thinking about. I've been thinking abit about this recently, y'see.  I have to say though, those examples were far better illustrations of the processes than I ever had, I only ever got the artwork and nuclear bomb down myself.  But it seems to fit to me, to be intuitive.
Title: New Chart
Post by: saint aini on April 29, 2005, 04:13:10 pm
My room is orderly disordered.  If someone else tries to clean it, it becomes disorderly ordered since I no longer know where the fuck the fucker fucking put my fucking stuff.

Creative destruction... imploding a building for a movie.

Destructive creation... giving man reason and then tell him not to use it, YHWH.
Title: New Chart
Post by: Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on April 29, 2005, 04:15:12 pm
creative destruction= shreading toilet paper all over the house and telling your mother it is art
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 04:18:24 pm
New Wrinkle:

It attempting to draw up a chart, I recognize the need for "Orderly Order", "Disorderly Disorder", "Creative Creatvity" and "Destructive Destruction".


Should we just say those squares belong to Eris, cuz we can't figure them out?
Title: New Chart
Post by: Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on April 29, 2005, 04:19:22 pm
is it like when there are double negatives it makes a positive,and become the opposite???
Title: New Chart
Post by: saint aini on April 29, 2005, 04:24:33 pm
creative destruction: cooking ramen noodles
Title: New Chart
Post by: saint aini on April 29, 2005, 04:25:15 pm
as for the chart, you need to use three dimensions
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 04:28:54 pm
3D, hmm?  I like the concept.  Please continue.  In 2D, I now have 16 squares:  I will attempt a table in Microsoft word, and see if i can post it correctly.
Title: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 29, 2005, 04:30:42 pm
Or a kite shape, each corner being an attribute (order, cretivity etc) and the lines inbetween denoting the connections.

If you see what I mean.  Evertthing is interconnected.  And each of the attributes could have a circle around them , to show heir totallity, while at the same time being not a part of the system.

Edit, the drawing fucked up.  I have done one on paper, I'll see if I can email it from my phone.
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 04:47:05 pm
I can't seem to make the chart be legible on the forums.

So, for all those with artistic or 1337 abilities:

First row reads:

ERIS, Orderly Disorder,Orderly Creation, Orderly Destruction

Second Row reads:

Disorderly Order, ERIS, Disorderly Creation, Disorderly Destruction

Third row Reads:

Creative Order, Creative Disorder, ERIS, Creative Destruction

Fourth Row reads:

Destructive Order,  Destructive Disorder, Destructive Disorder, ERIS


Can I get a witness?  Or an artist?
Title: New Chart
Post by: saint aini on April 29, 2005, 04:50:52 pm
hint:  use tab separated tables

and
Code: [Select]

[code][/code]
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 05:02:47 pm
Hmph.  I suppose I'm just a n00b at heart.


Hellooo, winpaint!
Title: New Chart
Post by: Horab Fibslager on April 29, 2005, 05:20:21 pm
winpaint pwnz!!!!!!


soem ponderworthy stufff there. hmm.
Title: New Chart
Post by: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy on April 29, 2005, 05:20:44 pm
Code: [Select]

ERIS,               Orderly Disorder,      Orderly Creation,      Orderly Destruction

Disorderly Order,   ERIS,                  Disorderly Creation,   Disorderly Destruction

Creative Order,     Creative Disorder,     ERIS,                  Creative Destruction

Destructive Order,  Destructive Disorder,  Destructive Disorder,  ERIS
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 05:32:15 pm
See what I mean?

I tried a winpain chart here:  http://img223.echo.cx/my.php?image=newpdchart3jr.png

Warning: I am as good an artist as Horab is a speller.
Title: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 29, 2005, 05:33:08 pm
Quote from: LMNO
See what I mean?

I tried a winpain chart here:  http://img223.echo.cx/my.php?image=newpdchart3jr.png

Warning: I am as good an artist as Horab is a speller.


It r teh w1n!
Title: New Chart
Post by: Horab Fibslager on April 29, 2005, 05:35:16 pm
Quote from: LMNO
See what I mean?

I tried a winpain chart here:  http://img223.echo.cx/my.php?image=newpdchart3jr.png

Warning: I am as good an artist as Horab is a speller.


that's pretty good an dmuch better than my spelling.
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 05:36:23 pm
I would appreciate anyone with actual talent to Please reproduce and improve upon such a crappy design.

The cube idea is coo, too, but I'm not sure how that would work.


LMNO
-Is so not doing any work today.
Title: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 29, 2005, 05:38:56 pm
Quote from: LMNO
I would appreciate anyone with actual talent to Please reproduce and improve upon such a crappy design.

The cube idea is coo, too, but I'm not sure how that would work.


LMNO
-Is so not doing any work today.


Well, I'll do what I suggested on the PM and see if synaptyx wants to have a crack at it.
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 05:46:39 pm
So, the question becomes, what do we make of this new chart?

For one, it does define Eris a OrderlyOrder, DisorderlyDisorder, CreativeCreativity, and DestructiveDestruction, all at once, which sound fairly accurate to me.

For another, it clarifies the differences between creative order and orderly creation, etc.

Thirdly, it gives rise to creative destruction and destructive creation.

Fourth, it's more complex, and therefore has more of a potential to confuse.

This is the fifth observation.
Title: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 29, 2005, 05:49:22 pm
Quote from: LMNO
So, the question becomes, what do we make of this new chart?

For one, it does define Eris a OrderlyOrder, DisorderlyDisorder, CreativeCreativity, and DestructiveDestruction, all at once, which sound fairly accurate to me.


I'd say that sums up Chaos, as it is all in one being at once.

Quote from: LMNO
For another, it clarifies the differences between creative order and orderly creation, etc.


Yep, which is nice.

Quote from: LMNO
Thirdly, it gives rise to creative destruction and destructive creation.


My dream is realized!

Quote from: LMNO
Fourth, it's more complex, and therefore has more of a potential to confuse.


And is therefore Holey.
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 05:51:13 pm
We could get Mangrove in on this, to add an occult and esoteric Kabbalistic/enochian flair...


But maybe that'd be pushing it.
Title: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 29, 2005, 05:54:34 pm
We should push the lazy thing until we get tired....my 2 pence
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 05:57:46 pm
Yeah.  Lazy.


"Slack", I believe it's called.
Title: New Chart
Post by: B_M_W on April 29, 2005, 05:59:28 pm
Well, if you are looking for confusion, LMNO's chart with the pictures did a number on me.

But I like it.

~BMW
Title: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 29, 2005, 06:05:45 pm
Quote from: LMNO
Yeah.  Lazy.


"Slack", I believe it's called.


Well, yeah.  I did some thinking on this, but let you do all the work on it.
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 06:09:05 pm
As silly as it sounds, I feel like I've actually contributed something to Erisianism with this.

I know it's all bullshit, but still...
Title: New Chart
Post by: Bella on April 29, 2005, 06:35:42 pm
Quote from: LMNO
As silly as it sounds, I feel like I've actually contributed something to Erisianism with this.

I know it's all bullshit, but still...

I wouldn't say it's bullshit.
You've presented us with a new vantage point - a valuable tool.

I think it would be cool to use this new tool for meditation.
Title: New Chart
Post by: fluffy on April 29, 2005, 07:42:59 pm

i don't see a problem with
orderly order
disorderly disorder
etc.

after all
with the chart as its stands now
you have three kinds of order
disorderly order
creative order
and
destructive order

isn't that leaving out
the obvious
which is just
order?

i don't think eris
would be
just order (etc.)

eris would be the whole chart
Title: New Chart
Post by: Horab Fibslager on April 29, 2005, 07:45:34 pm
Quote from: fluffy

i don't see a problem with
orderly order
disorderly disorder
etc.

after all
with the chart as its stands now
you have three kinds of order
disorderly order
creative order
and
destructive order

isn't that leaving out
the obvious
which is just
order?

i don't think eris
would be
just order (etc.)

eris would be the whole chart


as well as x.5 the chart.

btw this is defintely going into tehbook of ripoff.
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 07:48:20 pm
I see you point, Fluffy.  I guess I wanted to say that Eris was simultaneously the purest forms of Order, Disorder, Creativity, and Destruction, with the other descritions like a beam of light passing through a prism, or the sparkle of a faceted diamond.

Y'know?
Title: New Chart
Post by: DJRubberducky on April 29, 2005, 07:56:34 pm
I may have time to take a stab at illustration over the weekend.  If I don't, then whoever does: I was thinking of using the five-fingered hand in the "ERIS" boxen.  Just in case you like that idear. :)
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 08:00:00 pm
I like that idear.

And thanks.
Title: New Chart
Post by: The Open Bar on April 29, 2005, 08:31:36 pm
i like your chart alphabet dude  :)

i particularly like the idea of it being made into a cube. perhaps we could roll it in some sort of divination ritual? it's like a golden apple...but with corners!!

i think this is a worthy extension of discordianism....and failing that, it could double up as a nice paperweight.

as for mangrove.... if you get him in one of his k-babble moods...well...it's murky waters indeed....

anyway he's busy following the Escher drones that traverse his multi-dimensional stair cases.
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 08:35:54 pm
Yeah, but I still can't see how you could make it into a cube... There are 16 aspects...


Well, there are 12 aspects, and 4 simultaneous states of Eris, so we could use the edges....  Ther are 12 edges on a cube right?

::thinks::

4, 4, 4.  Yeah.  12.

Each edge can represent an aspect, it can bleed over each side, and combine in the middle like a big X.

Hmm.. More sketching needed.  be right back.

[Edit:  I'm back.  Here's one solution.  Each color would represent an aspect, with Eris Combined on the inside of the cube.  Or something.
http://img125.echo.cx/my.php?image=newchartcube6lt.png ]
Title: New Chart
Post by: East Coast Hustle on April 29, 2005, 08:43:35 pm
CREATIVE DESTRUCTION = NAIL ON FUCKING HEAD

thank you for articulating something I've believed in yet been unable to verbalize for the last 10 years or so.

thank you, thank you, thank you.

 8)
Title: New Chart
Post by: Horab Fibslager on April 29, 2005, 08:44:34 pm
16 is a cube number.

lol.

4 squares, 4 squares, 4squares, 4squares.


:mrgreen:
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 08:45:29 pm
Like I said, I got a good feeling about this one.

You're welcome.  Feel free to spread the Wisdom of the Chart.


But don't thank me, it was She What Done it All.
Title: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 29, 2005, 08:54:51 pm
I just realized my chart is missing a "destructive" symbol for "Destructive Disorder".


I apologize.

I shall attempt to remedy this.
Title: New Chart
Post by: DJRubberducky on April 29, 2005, 08:56:28 pm
I lied:

http://www.utdallas.edu/~katies/newpdchart.pdf

LMNO, I think I did it right.  Double-check me? :D
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on March 20, 2008, 07:22:53 pm
Bump for EmmaE.

Also, this is the sermon I was talking about.  For some reason it isn't in this thread.


So, now that we have discovered the Illusions of Order and Disorder, we can turn to the next page of the Principia Discordia, 00063, “The Curse of Greyface”.

THE CURSE OF GREYFACE AND THE
  INTRODUCTION  OF NEGATIVISM 
      To choose order over disorder, or disorder over order, is to accept a trip composed of both the creative and the destructive. But to choose the creative over the destructive is an all-creative trip composed of both order and disorder. To accomplish this, one need only accept creative disorder along with, and equal to, creative order, and also willing to reject destructive order as an undesirable equal to destructive disorder.
      The Curse of Greyface included the division of life into order/disorder as the essential positive/negative polarity, instead of building a game foundation with creative/destructive as the essential positive/negative. He has thereby caused man to endure the destructive aspects of order and has prevented man from effectively participating in the creative uses of disorder. Civilization reflects this unfortunate division.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/OldChart.jpg)
POEE proclaims that the other division is preferable, and we work toward the proposition that creative disorder, like creative order, is possible and desirable; and that destructive order, like destructive disorder, is unnecessary and undesirable.
      Seek the Sacred Chao - therein you will find the foolishness of all ORDER/DISORDER. They are the same!


Now, while that is very interesting, several of us were thinking a few things:
1. It reeks of hippiedom.
2. Its still dualistic.
3. Some of us like breaking stuff.

So, we thought about it an made a new chart:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/NewChartJpeg.jpg)

So:  Possibilities arise fourfold.  The original pattern remains, Creative Order/Disorder, and Destructive Order/Disorder.  But rather than limiting one’s observances to an essentially two dimensional outlook, we may expand upon it.*

Orderly Disorder:  The means and methods of predictable chaos, a false front; often used by cabbages to pass themselves off as wise.  Rather than let the warm bosom of Eris comfort and inspire them to do great things, they force them selves into carefully planned actions which may look Erisian at first glance, but are almost entirely Aneristic.

Orderly Creation:  Architecture, Mathematics, Haiku, Fugues; Creative energies bound by rules, yet yielding great works that bring beauty into the world.  In this light, structure and boundaries are not the enemy, they are merely tools with which to create.

Orderly Destruction:  The triumph of the Aneristic Illusion.  Everything is rules.  No freedom exists, for it is bound by carefully crafted commandments.  The creative spirit has been vanquished, crushed.

Disorderly Order:  The methods used by Ghandi and MLK; Civil Disobedience.  Causing Disorder through non-chaotic action.  The rock in the stream that causes turbulence and eddies.

Disorderly Creation:  Using Eristic means to Create; Cf. Jackson Pollock, John Cage, Free Jazz, etc.

Disorderly Destruction:  Most Natural Disasters.  Many cabbages consider this the only aspect of Chaos. 

Creative Order:  The means and methods to which one brings the Aneristic Illusion into greater perception.  Gruad’s revolution occurred only because Gruad was creative enough to communicate them to his fellow Atlanteans.  Also, the PNAC, and most justifications for rescinding personal social freedoms.

Creative Disorder:  A process that engenders another process... Much like the intended results of Operation: Mindfuck-- that is, one creates a clever and specific kind of disorder, whose purpose is to turn neophobes into neophiles.

Creative Destruction:  The answer to the usual objection to the original Creation/Destruction meme, to wit, “you have to destroy in order to create”.  In fact, if one moves beyond the merely physical into the conceptual, every major artistic breakthrough has come from breaking/abandoning/destroying the “rules” in a creative way.

Destructive Order:  The rules and paradigms that repress and inhibit Freedom and Creation.  The tools of the Aneristic Illusion.

Destructive Disorder:  Behavior and actions that are harmful; various psychoses and self-destructive habits; temper tantrums.  Many Novice Erisians (and many Elder Erisians as well) often mistake Destructive Disorder as a beneficial thing.

Destructive Creation:  The process of building things that have no purpose but to destroy.  Oppenheimer, creating the Nuclear Bomb; Bioengineering new viruses that can wipe out the planet.  In general, these are poorly directed creative energies.

Which leaves us with 4 spaces left: Orderly Order, Disorderly Disorder, Creative Creation, and Destructive Destruction.  What do they mean?  The fuck if I know.  And there lies the first clue.  They are also the purest forms of these aspects.  That is the second clue.  The other three clues are Hidden.  Regardless, it soon becomes obvious that if one takes the four purest elements and combines them simultaneously into a fifth, Eris is born.  She is all things, all conflicting ideas, all concepts, all aspects.  Hence, the 5-fingered hand of Eris occupies those spaces.

It has been noted by Discordian scholars that opening up the Chart in this way give rise to furthur [sic] observations of Destructive Disorderly Order, and Creative Destructive Disorderly Order, and Orderly Creative Destructive Disorderly Order etc.  I leave this exercise up to the reader, as it’s getting late, and I’m almost out of scotch.




*The wise-assed among us would like to remind the reader that ultimately, every single square in this chart should contain the Hand, as this is merely another exercise in Illusion, and these aspects are merely interpretations of that which is Chaos.  Fair enough.  Turn the page.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: EmmaE on March 21, 2008, 08:50:58 am
Thanks for the bump, LMNO.

After looking at this chart, I realize that I still have a hell of a lot more to think about in some aspects-- and, in others, things are clearer.
But it's a step in the right direction, I think.

Thank you for the food for thought.  :)
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Verbal Mike on March 21, 2008, 12:04:01 pm
Good bump! This makes much more sense than the old 2*2 from the PD.
Makes me think a thorough revision of PD (retaining the old format and order) would be a good idea.
But I'm all talk. :)
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on March 21, 2008, 12:40:59 pm
If any of you are currently tweaking on Ritalin and would like to extend the chart to 16x16, 32x32, etc, go for it. 
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 21, 2008, 05:05:50 pm
If I recall correctly, the negativity related to Destructive* didn't appear until later editions of the Principia Discordia were published. (3rd I think)

In fact, I think the first edition dopes a much better job of discussing order and disorder: http://appendix.23ae.com/pd1/contents.html

Note particularly:
http://appendix.23ae.com/pd1/17.html
http://appendix.23ae.com/pd1/24.html
http://appendix.23ae.com/pd1/08.html


Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on March 21, 2008, 05:07:13 pm
What's the asterisk for?
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 21, 2008, 05:08:49 pm
ummm... a typo.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on March 21, 2008, 05:09:13 pm
Oh, you can do better than that.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Cain on March 22, 2008, 01:26:04 pm
You can download the first edition PD in pdf format from InvisibleCollege and POEE as well.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Cain on March 25, 2008, 09:26:31 pm
I've personally be using a chart which goes a little something like this:

Boring/Interesting vs Structured/Ogranic

Feel free to flesh that out.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Triple Zero on March 25, 2008, 10:05:39 pm
Oh, you can do better than that.

:lol:
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on March 26, 2008, 12:02:17 pm
I've personally be using a chart which goes a little something like this:

Boring/Interesting vs Structured/Ogranic

Feel free to flesh that out.

I like this...
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Cain on March 26, 2008, 07:44:03 pm
It certainly works well thus far...given I've been using it for about 2 weeks.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Triple Zero on March 27, 2008, 08:23:23 pm
okay slightly related, and i apologize beforehand, is this article i read on deoxy years ago:

http://deoxy.org/gaia/forests.htm

please try to read around the new age hippyness, it makes some interesting statements about fundamental differences in geometry of organic things versus non-organic/man-made things.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Reginald Ret on March 28, 2008, 11:01:42 pm
thank you triple zero, i forgot how much joy i could find in nature (strange huh considering i study biology) just thinking about it already releases some tension. Damn this city-living i needs me some trees dammit!


anyhue back to the subject at hand, according to that link the dichotomy is not between structured and organic but more about 2 types of structuredness, this makes more sense to me then a structured/organic dichotomy, i propose calling it constructed vs grown.


Regret,
having trouble believing that he missed that beaut in all the years he frequented deoxy.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: rong on April 21, 2008, 10:28:35 am
i dig this thread - would the chart itself be an example of orderly order?  is it even possible to make a disorderly chart? 
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Triple Zero on April 21, 2008, 04:19:24 pm
is it even possible to make a disorderly chart?

if you ever had to correct the homework of an entire class of 2nd year business school students, you wouldn't ask questions like this.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 21, 2008, 04:22:19 pm
Or if you're looking at the finances of Merrill Lynch, for example  :lulz:
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Jasper on April 21, 2008, 07:38:26 pm
Something occurs to me.  Couldn't we use one of those circular charts like they have in that one arcade game where you train to be a cop?

It'd look like this:

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k293/FelixPhlogopite/Chart.jpg)
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 21, 2008, 07:40:05 pm
Wait, I forget... WTF are we modeling again?
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Jasper on April 21, 2008, 07:41:25 pm
Fetus art.

No, seriously?  The aspects of Chaos.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Hoopla on April 21, 2008, 08:24:58 pm
Is it just me, or is the idea of charting chaos :fap: ?
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Jasper on April 21, 2008, 08:27:45 pm
Only if you actually want to use it to record things.  I think of it as a tool to deepen understanding.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 21, 2008, 08:29:15 pm
Well, I think we can make many models, which if they're useful for something then surely its not just  :fap:

But, the thing I'm trying to figure out is why we're trying to model chaos beyond the old 2x2 grid... that is what would the new model provide over the old one.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that the old one provided was a way of visualizing that not all chaos is necessarily bad. What are we aiming at with these other models?
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Hoopla on April 21, 2008, 08:30:21 pm
What are we aiming at with these other models?

 :fap:
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 21, 2008, 08:31:16 pm
What are we aiming at with these other models?

 :fap:

O I C
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Hoopla on April 21, 2008, 08:33:38 pm
Just trying to help.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Jasper on April 21, 2008, 08:33:54 pm
More of the same.  I'm trying to get back into content producing mode, so expect a few misses.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Cramulus on April 21, 2008, 10:41:28 pm
I hate to quote scripture (lol) but-
Starbuck's Pebbles (http://principiadiscordia.com/book/61.php) seems appropriate to post here.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Jasper on April 21, 2008, 10:43:56 pm
Point taken, but I still think occaisionally regurgitating things in new formats can make them clearer.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 21, 2008, 11:00:44 pm
Point taken, but I still think occaisionally regurgitating things in new formats can make them clearer.

I agree... I'm just trying to figure out where the clarity is needed... that is, I have had a few ideas about models, but I'm not sure if they're useful or not, because I don't know what we're trying to model more clearly...

or something like that.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 23, 2008, 01:52:41 pm
It originally started when ECH was bicthing about how you have order, disorder, creation, and destruction, but no way to represent creative destruction.

I thought about it a bit, and threw the new chart together.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 23, 2008, 07:24:56 pm
  --------------|Creation|Destruction|Chaos|Order|
|Creative      |     X
|Destructive|                        X
|Chaotic        |                                                 X
|Ordered       |                                                                 X

That gives us Adverbs down the side and Verbs across the top:

Destructive Creation
Chaotic Creation
Ordered Creation

Creative Destruction
Chaotic Destruction
Ordered Destruction

Creative Chaos
Destructive Chaos
Ordered Chaos

Creative Order
Destructive Order
Chaotic Order


Maybe something like that?
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: ShoobyDB on April 26, 2008, 07:45:13 am
This should obviously be a Venn diagram. Do not underestimate the power of overlapping circles!!
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 26, 2008, 10:47:18 am
  --------------|Creation|Destruction|Chaos|Order|
|Creative      |     X
|Destructive|                        X
|Chaotic        |                                                 X
|Ordered       |                                                                 X

That gives us Adverbs down the side and Verbs across the top:

Destructive Creation
Chaotic Creation
Ordered Creation

Creative Destruction
Chaotic Destruction
Ordered Destruction

Creative Chaos
Destructive Chaos
Ordered Chaos

Creative Order
Destructive Order
Chaotic Order


Maybe something like that?


OK, can we flesh any of these out with examples then?
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 26, 2008, 04:03:45 pm
Destructive Creation - The creation of something that's sole purpose is to destroy. So a nuclear weapon might fit here... but a solar toilet would not, since while it destroys biological matter, it creates compost.

Chaotic Creation - Perhaps accidental creation like vulcanization, the invention of LSD; or the PD since it began as a bunch of random notes, memos and flyer jokes, but created a lot more than that incidentally.
 
Ordered Creation - Factory products, Jewelry (cutting stones, fittings etc)

Creative Destruction - The eradication of invasive species through creative means; Perhaps pranks like TPing property or egging a house?

Chaotic Destruction - The end of the Roman Empire; Accidentally dropping my favorite pair of sunglasses and then stepping on them?

Ordered Destruction - Book Burnings

Creative Chaos - GASMS; Pennsic; Burning Man; Mosh pits at a concert?

Destructive Chaos -  Bull in a China Shop (except Mythbusters disproved that meme...)

Ordered Chaos - My desk at the office; my house; herding cats

Creative Order - Mythbusters; Lab environments; Invention through process

Destructive Order - The Bush Administration

Chaotic Order - Kim Jong Ill's Administration



Just some quick ideas...
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Cain on April 26, 2008, 04:11:07 pm
Interesting.  I'll think of some examples myself and get back to you.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 26, 2008, 08:25:39 pm
An example, perhaps of creative order?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=K2cYWfq--Nw (http://youtube.com/watch?v=K2cYWfq--Nw)

Very creative example of extreme order?
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 28, 2008, 02:35:15 pm
This should obviously be a Venn diagram. Do not underestimate the power of overlapping circles!!

Well, then do it!
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Hoopla on April 28, 2008, 02:42:07 pm
Bull in a China Shop (except Mythbusters disproved that meme...)

What's to disprove about a bull in a china shop?
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 28, 2008, 02:43:44 pm
Bull in a China Shop (except Mythbusters disproved that meme...)

What's to disprove about a bull in a china shop?

That Kari looks better in a tight white T-shirt than Jamie?

Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Hoopla on April 28, 2008, 02:45:02 pm
Bull in a China Shop (except Mythbusters disproved that meme...)

What's to disprove about a bull in a china shop?

That Kari looks better in a tight white T-shirt than Jamie?



Is she the redhead?
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on April 28, 2008, 02:46:58 pm
Yup.

I still think the blonde is hotter, tho.

It's the tattoos.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Hoopla on April 28, 2008, 02:53:00 pm
I can't recall the blonde at the moment, but the redhead is a hot little number.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 28, 2008, 03:26:15 pm
Bull in a China Shop (except Mythbusters disproved that meme...)

What's to disprove about a bull in a china shop?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/804083/bull_in_china_shop/
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Verbal Mike on April 28, 2008, 05:18:18 pm
Again we see the superiority of Israeli culture! In Israel, they say "an elephant in a china shop". Clearly, the Israeli meme is moar gooder than the puny Anglophone strain!
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Triple Zero on April 28, 2008, 05:49:01 pm
Again we see the superiority of Israeli culture! In Israel, they say "an elephant in a china shop". Clearly, the Israeli meme is moar gooder than the puny Anglophone strain!

dutch got the same.

though, i will only believe it once i see it
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: AFK on April 28, 2008, 05:54:07 pm
In Maine it's "A Moose in an Ice Fishing Shack"

Though often times, it doesn't actually refer to an actual Moose. 
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: Cramulus on May 17, 2017, 01:28:20 pm
Hey LMNO, do you have the New Chart jpg?

Some spag on Tumblr is asking me about the 16 forms referenced in the 56th chapter of the CTC
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on May 17, 2017, 04:35:35 pm
Oh, man.  I'll have to go check.  It's easy enough to replicate though.  If I can't find it, I'll make a new one.
Title: Re: New Chart
Post by: LMNO on May 17, 2017, 04:49:53 pm
Got it.  Enjoy.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/Eris%20propoganda/NewChartJpeg.jpg)


Image credit goes to DJ Rubberducky.