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Messages - The seer

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1
Or Kill Me / I have a question for you...
« on: December 12, 2005, 10:08:20 am »
Thankyou zurtok for missing the entire point.

I was attempting to sketch out a metaphor from multiple perspectives. I'm so happy you didn't understand that. Here's a map and a flashlight, please endeavour to find your ass with them.

2
Or Kill Me / I have a question for you...
« on: December 11, 2005, 03:30:08 pm »
It has multiple ways of being asked. Bear in mind they are all the same question, not different. Let me repeat that: bear in mind that they are all the same question, not different. And again: bear in mind that they are all the same question, not different.

If angels can fall, may devils rise?
Are all patterns of thought inborn or learned?
If you believe you are right, then everything you say is right?
Can a lepoard change its spots?
Is there any redemption?
Is nobility defined or inborn?

3
Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
« on: December 11, 2005, 11:15:01 am »
Hesiod wrote about Eris as haing two Facets.
Quote
o, after all, there was not one kind of Strife alone, but all over the earth there are two. As for the one, a man would praise her when he came to understand her; but the other is blameworthy: and they are wholly different in nature.

For one fosters evil war and battle, being cruel: her no man loves; but perforce, through the will of the deathless gods, men pay harsh Strife her honour due.

But the other is the elder daughter of dark Night (Nyx), and the son of Cronus who sits above and dwells in the aether, set her in the roots of the earth: and she is far kinder to men. She stirs up even the shiftless to toil; for a man grows eager to work when he considers his neighbour, a rich man who hastens to plough and plant and put his house in good order; and neighbour vies with is neighbour as he hurries after wealth. This Strife is wholesome for men. And potter is angry with potter, and craftsman with craftsman, and beggar is jealous of beggar, and minstrel of minstrel.


We know history favours the victors, and as such so do the gods, because they are the victors correct? honest citizens of their empire? How can the gods not favour them as leaders, and victorious at that?

If you notice however, Eris herself has never been known to favour anyone, Even Hesiod fails to mention that. He mentions the jealousy between individuals, that makes them compete. Yet Eris herself has said:
Quote
    I have come to tell you that you are free. Many ages ago, My consciousness left man, that he might develop himself. I return to find this development approaching completion, but hindered by fear and by misunderstanding.

     You have built for yourselves psychic suits of armor, and clad in them, your vision is restricted, your movements are clumsy and painful, your skin is bruised, and your spirit is broiled in the sun.

    I am chaos. I am the substance from which your artists and scientists build rhythms. I am the spirit with which your children and clowns laugh in happy anarchy. I am chaos. I am alive, and I tell you that you are free.


Eris is the unease and the creative impulse. The happiness shit you speak of has nothing at all to do with sitting in the corner chanting "all is calm, all is well" You'd have to be thick to do that anyway. But if eris is the spirit in which children and clowns frollic, is there not some form of happiness to be sought?

Can happiness only be mindless? And to seek it as a goal is to do nothing but think happy thoughts is it? to deny reality?

As an optimist I'm talking about the other axis of the graph: Creative/Destructive. Greyface asserted that the important divide was between order and disorder, and as the principia points out we are thus left with all of the destructive aspects of order as well as its creative aspects. To emphasise chaos purely as a desrective process is to take greyface, stand him on his head, and read him upside down; There's a subtle difference which gives you a crick in the neck.

Ultimately then having dismissed chaos as purely destructive and order as ultimately destructive and spirit-crushing we embrace nihlism, because there is nothing of worth to be gained, nothing above or below us. Now perhaps it is time to add:
    "There is what is said and what is done
    What is done reveals what is felt
    And just as the bitter heart finds no Joy,
    so too does the bitter leader create no joyous followers.
    [/list:u]

    Simply put, if you believe that chaos and order are ultimately fruitless then your nihlism will be just as negative. John Lenon said a nihlistic thing or two:
    "Imagine there's no heaven.
    It's easy if you try
    No Hell below us.
    Above us only sky"


    Now was he optimistic or pessimistic in that instance?

    I disagree with the thesis that predominant human behaviours are natural and unchangeable, that's an excuse used to justify both helpless rage and centuries of idiocy. And yet in one breath, while acknowledging the role of consciousness in behaviour and it's manipulation you say it is unchangeable.

    As an optimist I say that is false, and I am called mindless and misguided? I find that odd. What keeps you alive if the machine is only going to crush you and spit out your bones?

    4
    Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
    « on: December 11, 2005, 05:43:22 am »
    Quote from: Chlorine
    Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
    Nihilism.
    Mmkay. My beleifs change too much and too often for me to properly define them anyway...Discussing them is somewhat difficult and mildly unpleasant for me.

    Well discordianism never demanded consistency.

    5
    Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
    « on: December 11, 2005, 05:20:56 am »
    Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
    Quote from: mian tiao Fred
    be your self

    the end.


    now wasnt that easy?


    I am.  But Buddhaboi thinks this makes me:  thick, Jim Jones, Pat Robertson, and unthinking.

    :lol:

    TGRR,
    Loves poking the fluffies into making insults.  Because he was born wrong.

    ah well. *hugs a cat*  :twisted:

    6
    Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
    « on: December 11, 2005, 05:06:56 am »
    Which just goes to show how little you actually think.

    You say it is impossible to be positive without being blind to all the goings wrong around us. There's nothing to say that a person cannot have hopes for  some kind of positive outcome while still acknowledging the state the planet is in. You embrace your negativity as being more true because you have set your impression of optimism as being inherently flawed.
    You take one experience of an optimist and accuse all people who think positively of being shiny happy people. Sounds to me like you're a big believer in universals, like jim jones, pat robertson, Bush...

    7
    Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
    « on: December 11, 2005, 04:57:44 am »
    Renko: you can't change everyone. Roger is a living lesson in this regard.

    Roger: "I am the spirit in which children and clowns laugh in happy anarchy"

    If I'm wrong I hereby start my own religion.

    8
    Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
    « on: December 11, 2005, 04:55:59 am »
    Argument I had with the wife:

    "If I had my way I'd make you into a pessimist like me."
    "We'll I'd win that struggle, because being a pessimist you'd give up before me."

     :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

    It's more complex than simply being happy Roger. But at the core of it all is the optimism. I'm a thinking optimist.

    9
    Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
    « on: December 11, 2005, 04:45:22 am »
    Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
    Quote from: The seer
    The message reveals something about the reader.

    I actually agree with you and my position is unchanged.

    So please say 'WTF?' and have a thought.


    1.  Don't come peddling you quantum mechanics around HERE, Mister Schroedinger!

    2.  See #1, particle boi!

    3.  I need no thoughts.  Gods are pretty static, you know.


    God damn you're thick! You know that?
    Eris is not JHVH... dig?
    No actually you don't get that obviously, somewhere along the line you pulled out a big 'ol box wrote "religions" on the side and stored buddha next to jim jones in the attic.

    Dumbass...

    10
    Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
    « on: December 11, 2005, 04:37:38 am »
    The message reveals something about the reader.

    I actually agree with you and my position is unchanged.

    So please say 'WTF?' and have a thought.

    11
    Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
    « on: December 11, 2005, 04:26:38 am »
    Quote from: Chlorine
    But Seer, does it even matter? :o


    maybe not to you.
    Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
    I can only speak for me, but:

    1.  No, it's not a religion, to me...insomuch that I do not worship a minor Greek diety.  It is, instead, a way of life.   This, of course, leading to the question:  Discordianism...A religion, a philosophy, or just one more excuse for assholes?

    2.  I don't see any spirituality in Discordianism, whatsoever.  It doesn't seem to be designed for that, as far as I can tell.  Seriously..."spirituality" involving hot dog buns?  That's as goofy as the Christians basing spirituality on an execution tool.

    Roger. If Discordianism is about thinking outside the box, so to would any spiritual practice be thinking outside the box. For everything you've described, your thinking of it as a religion in comparison to other religions, The hot dog buns are a parody, a useless icon that is obviously useless, like all other religious icons, which are covertly useless.
    Furthermore, the message reveals something about the reader, I ask you which person would be more spiritual. Someone who can only experience the divine inside a holy institution doing ritualised holy things with ordained holy figures officiating, or someone who can experience the divine by eating a sausage wrapped in a bread roll?

    I'm very militant about that point, because as you may or may not becoming aware of, the world is run by religious people who only experience god in contrived settings. This actually makes them dangerous. There are various reasons why as I'm sure you could make a list.

    12
    Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
    « on: December 11, 2005, 03:59:57 am »
    Pretty much everything in this thread.

    Though perhaps you might clear that up for me.
    Is discordianism a spiritual and/or religious practice to you and/or ZK or do you treat it as something else? Because as it appears to me from the description you're describing socially desirable personality traits before someone can have the label "Discordian" so if you think of it that way it sounds more like a "good housekeeping" article.

    I suppose that may have some kind of use in a religious sense but I don't see it having much to do with the spiritual side.

    13
    Literate Chaotic / Favorite Song Lyrics/Poetry
    « on: December 11, 2005, 03:56:23 am »
    TEH WHO = TEH R0X0RZ!!!!!1111ONEONEONE!!!11

    14
    Literate Chaotic / another sign the machine is rotting
    « on: December 11, 2005, 03:46:53 am »
    Quote from: doubtless incident
    once there's no machine, the people will demand that there be a new machine.


    That is the correct response.

    15
    Or Kill Me / The TROOF about Discordians.
    « on: December 11, 2005, 03:45:58 am »
    I disagree.

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