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Messages - 00.dusk

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Propaganda Depository / Re: Sympathy and Nazis
« on: May 22, 2017, 03:24:22 pm »
What's extra weird is the people who don't care.  Not like, "I'm kinda racist so I really don't want to know about this stuff," more like, "I have no real curiosity or interest in this, so I literally don't know any of this ever happened."

For example, one of the guitarists in Frost Heaves is a really nice guy, and absolutely not intentionally racist, but I had to explain redlining to him - which isn't that odd, as it's fairly special interest, but in order to do so I had to give him a brief intro to systemic racism in America, which he didn't know was and is a thing.  He couldn't get his head around the fact that the government intentionally wrote racist laws post Jim Crow.  He was at least willing to learn, but it was really weird to me to have to go back that far.

The recent history of systemic racism in the USA is so utterly buried under trivial bullshit and outright lies that if you aren't explicitly educated in it, you either have at least one very, very good friend who is directly affected by it, or you very, very likely know not a single thing about it.

I did not know anything about it until just 2 years ago. Keep in mind that I have been to jail and been homeless, that my entire life has been spent in what most people would consider "the projects". Also keep in mind that this was not willful ignorance or "I don't care enough to learn" -- I genuinely had been told all my life that it wasn't real anymore, that the 50s-60s Civil Rights Movement "won" and racism was dead outside of a few angry inbred holdouts. I was told this by smart, well-educated people who should have (maybe even did) know better. Even by people directly affected by it. Even by people in the intersection between those two groups.

You should be more surprised when a white person knows about it at all, let alone when they know /and/ don't dismiss it in favor of blatant racism. You absolutely need to have real curiosity in the subject or personal awareness to not be completely ignorant of it, given the absurd amount of dirt shoveled on top of it to pretend it isn't real.

Now's my turn to quite possibly get my monkey on, but I think that the current raving lunatic believes in traditional family ties and maybe even the concept of a nuclear family, judging by this:

paradoxially reactionary concepts about reproduction and family

Personally, I think family ties are a convenient screen for hiding abuse and the foremost enabler of things like nepotism and us vs them thinking, and the "nuclear family" concept has only made this worse. Anti-abortion rhetoric is used, in some cases, to further this specific agenda: essentially using the concept of "family" to beat innocent humans with.

Also, particularly the "reproductive" bit of our neighborhood moron's above quoted bit makes me think that he believes motherhood is an essential part of being a woman. Which, if true, has a ton of fun domino-effect aspects that force him to believe a host of other stupid things or modify his bullshit. They aren't even slippery slope fallacy, they're logical consequences of that belief.

So you come in here with "helpful advice" on how we can better "defend" abortion, because the left are idiots, and we are doing it wrong. Over the course of 6 dreadfully predictable pages, you (of course) wander from "here, dummies, let me help you" to "my main problem with abortion". So you out yourself as having entered the thread under false pretenses to begin with. You're not interested in improving arguments in favor of abortion rights, you are actually a pro-life fanatic. This explains why any honest attempt to enlighten you as to the reasons why certain arguments are or are not employed, fails to enlighten you. You are not here for information, you are here to preach.

I'm not exposing anything everyone hasn't already seen here, of course. But maybe this will help you understand why no one is taking you seriously. You know, besides the fact that your "arguments" are stupid and not worth real consideration.

You've mistaken PoFP (original poster, bipedal) for PDS (this guy, screeches on knuckles).

That forces me to laugh loudly at anyone who says Trump-Russia collusion even "maybe isn't" a thing.

If I, for example, were to leak such information, the nicest thing I could hope for would be two in the back of the head someplace dark and far from civilization.

What is the true nature of reality, and why does it seem to pair Good Values with Bad Hair and Sociopathy?

Also, what did I have for breakfast last week? I have forgotten but I want it again anyway.

Ignoring the backed up septic tank pretending to be a sentient being for the time being:

This echoes an interesting point someone mentioned recently - the PD itself was heavy on the Funny but the BIP was more on the serious side.

As horror increases is it important (or possible) for mirth to increase proportionally or does mirth fall as horror rises?

Is there actually more horror now than in the 70s? I don't know - I wasn't around back then.

As Junkenstein said, they are constantly in proportion to each other. I'd say the horror is the greater of the two at any given time, because the funny often (especially in the past) is itself horrible as the baseline. (For instance: consider that a popular "gag gift" of the 1900s or thereabouts was a little box with a spring loaded button that concealed a rusty needle.)

But as the horror rises so must the mirth, because there is a related equation which is "T=horrorseriousness", where T is the tendency to lose your mind/sense of proportion in some fashion. If you can't laugh AND it's all awful, you are at risk.

So for a necessarily sane mind it's something like, "horror=mirth+c" where c is the constant value of human shitheadedness.

The line between horror and mirth is getting harder to tread.

Not really. Its as wide (or narrow, depending on your perspective) as its always been. There's just been a bit of re-branding here and there so it feels new.

If I were going to make the proportion of Horrormirth into a law, it'd be something like, "|horror|+|mirth|=horrormirth".

I should probably explain that formula.

There's a middle ground where horrible things aren't very funny. A good example of this is cancer, AIDS, etc -- it's rare enough that you don't need to laugh at it to survive with your brain intact, but common enough that it doesn't seem right to laugh at it to make light of your own eventual horrible demise.

There's also a middle ground where funny things being real isn't particularly horrible: take the Weird as an example. Our Weird, that is. Harmless jakes and pranks that leave you feeling, maybe the world isn't what it's made out to be after all?

But when funny is either real low or real high, it gets more horrible, and vice versa. So the two "elements" of horrormirth are both absolute values.

This means essentially that the lowest value of horrormirth is 0. And as the world gets more horrible (or if it gets really non-horrible), that goes up, and the same is true of it getting funnier or less funny.

I'd say this world is pretty fucking horrible, and rapidly declining. And the Funny we got around is definitely Horrible in some way. (I can't tell which direction it's going, but does it /really/ matter if it's not keeping pace with the Bad Hair with Good Values™?) Therefore, Horrormirth has Increased.

(Psst. This is what I mean by taking myself seriously.)

That's an interesting and we'll reasoned response. If it wasn't directed to the intellectual equivalent of a grape it might have done some good.

I agree. I don't know why I bothered. But I'm pretty fucking serious myself, so maybe it's some creepy feeling of distant kinship, like baboons must feel when they look at dogs in Greece.

So, this is an example of what I sometimes worry I look like.

See, I take all of this /very/ seriously. Deathly seriously, even. I do the research and put in the work and make sure I'm doing the /right thing/. I worry about ethics and morality more on a given day than the vast, vast majority of humans who have (who will EVER) live have in their entire lives. I worry, I get anxious, I stress, I drive myself /fucking batty/. Seriously.

And then I cackle like a methed up hooligan and start throwing rocks at cars because by fucking god if I don't do something stupid I'll be this nosy self-absorbed cunt over here, telling other people about my ethical conclusions and leaning on them to DO THE RIGHT THING OR ELSE THEY'RE FUCKING AWFUL. That shit? That's just another part of Them. That's the part of Them that They've automated, put in gear. The part They normally don't need to say out loud because pompous fuckmissiles will do it for Them and They can avoid direct blame. It's the part beaten into the heads of kids who do not, can not know any better -- not so they'll learn now but so they'll fall in with the jackboots when the Great Headstomp comes around.

Mithridates, you have missed the entire point of Discordia. Discordia has no room for people who can't dress up for the disco (yeah, the dead one) and no room for people who can't laugh themselves bloodshot and shitting themselves over all this fucking INJUSTICE. You have become the very Greyface the Principia Discordia warned about. There's a traditional response to it, but I just woke up and haven't really slept enough and you really just are not worth it. It's easier to give you a reply in as close to your language as I can manage and hope, potentially, you get the sudden urge to fuck off -- or maybe to laugh a little before you become one of Them.

Or Kill Me / Re: You're not conscious
« on: April 25, 2017, 07:20:44 am »
I'm intrigued by all kinds of consciousness, and I'm not convinced that "mindfulness" is an appropriate measuring stick for it. It isn't particularly useful to define "levels" (or gradiations, or whatever) of consciousness as becoming more true or real or appropriate as they approach greater proximity to the "here and now". A lollygagging daydream that steals whole minutes or hours from one's memory or perception of the immediate moment or environment isn't evidence that consciousness itself is waning to anyone except maybe an outside observer. It seems better to approach the fitness of one's state of mind in terms of how useful that state is to one's chosen objective: Mindfulness is probably a good idea when interacting with other people or studying psychology or the environment. It may be less useful or even wholly inappropriate for other pursuits, as in artistic or creative work.

I'm also going to say I find reductive materialism so incredibly, mercilessly dull that it is its own excuse for intentionally believing preposterous woo just to escape it.

RE: the bolded, I get that. But this isn't particularly boring materialism to me -- it's actually super useful.

When I was thinking on his question and what the answer was, somehow I hadn't fully gotten that there's no magical wall separating the decision-making apparatus from the stimulus-response rule. When I got that: boom. I had the key to the solutions of multiple parts of my broad-scope mental health issues sitting right in front of me. I won't be neurotypical, but I can at least, over time, adapt myself to be able to interact with the modern world in a broadly "normal" way. That's extremely liberating.

I guess it's kind of like woo that's real and actually works -- instead of the power of positive thinking, it's the power of psychological conditioning.

Or Kill Me / Re: You're not conscious
« on: April 25, 2017, 05:24:33 am »
If you constantly reflect and force awareness of a specific area of your mind (Trigger a specific neural network) when exposed to a specific consciousness alarm (Or unusual stimulus), you can cause that reflection to happen automatically, almost in the background. In other words, you can automate that reflection/analysis so that you don't necessarily have to be conscious for it. The subconscious can take over that particular mental activity in the future.

This is something they deal with later in the gurdjieff work. There's this idea of an "instinctive center", our habit engine. I think Gurdjieff and Ouspensky describe ways to hack it... the goal is to build shocks, mindfulness, into your habits.

The exercise I'm doing this week is to be mindful every time I open a door.

I haven't succeeded even once so far lol

the comparison between lucid dreaming "reality checks" and developing a habit of consciousness is apt

Okay, so I just don't get the lucid dreaming thing.  Maybe I'm a light sleeper, running on some kind of deficit, I don't know. When I think about analysis, as taking-apart, the discursive process requires discerning separate determinations. How is it logically possible to perform this operation subconsciously, without a ground of recognition that is nescesary for reason to operate?

I don't know enough to answer this in detail, but I know enough to say that this is true:

The "seat of reasoning", the executive function bit of the brain, is not a soul. It is not magical, special or even particularly different from the rest of your cranial meatloaf, and can be activated by stimuli the same way that anything else (memories, phantom sensations, you name it) can be. It's ~3 pounds of meat and chemicals and electricity, not a tiny man in a control center.

Richard Nixon's glittering half-life sarcophagus / Re: ABSOLUTE CHAOS
« on: April 22, 2017, 01:41:11 am »
Well you can't half-ass this sort of thing. You know this is truly a once in a life-time opportunity, I can read it in your pixels.

TO THE WALL, as you say. Make them either regret handing you the keys to boundless power or grateful it didn't go quite as horribly awry as it /could/ have. Or both, in alternating churns of the stomach, like they ate a sandwich that got left outside at high noon in your corner of hell and now their abdominal wall is the only thing between it and FREEDOM.

Aneristic Illusions / Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« on: April 16, 2017, 06:10:11 pm »
I suspect if we do see military action here by the US, it will be some kind of limited (ish) strike, to try and destroy their currently existing weapons and infrastructure to create them.  Then the work would be to find out who is helping them develop this program (almost certainly Pakistan and Burma.  I'm calling it now) and prevent them from supplying them with replacement parts.

But who the fuck knows what Trump is thinking at any given moment.  Not even Trump, I suspect.

Good call on Burma. I don't understand Pakistan, but understand if you can't go into further detail there.

Aneristic Illusions / Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« on: April 15, 2017, 10:54:33 pm »
So the annual NK sabre rattling is going to be even funnier than usual then?

Last night my feed was full of North Korea and arms control specialists going "ohhhh FUCK".  Not paraphrased.

So it's going to be quite possibly /very/ /very/ funny, for radioactive values of "funny".

Aneristic Illusions / Re: The #AltWoke Manifesto
« on: April 13, 2017, 09:13:32 pm »
This looks like a promising tool for rehabilitating /pol spags who haven't gone full nazi yet, or are willing to consider stepping back from full nazi.

The youth-right opposition to *false* political correctness (saying the right thing because it's what you're supposed to, not because you believe it) is a useful foothold that this seems to be planting itself in. They don't wanna be tumblrinas, but they also don't think they hate black people/immigrants/queer folk/whatever. A movement that allows them to say "I hate the falseness of the narrative around inclusivity, not inclusivity itself" and keeps pulling them away from the direction of full nazi could be the kind of stepping stone we need.

This is a good point.

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