Messages

1

Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 18, 2012, 10:14:58 am »

Crosspost from Group, as per Twid's request

Context and my position regarding recent drama.

There's been a bit of a stress out recently regarding a figure known as Reverend Loveshade.

For those unfamiliar, Reverend Loveshade is controvercial for two things

1. He has made several comments or allusions to children in sexual contexts, seriously arguing against existing age of conscent laws and producing writing that makes references to youth sexuality (though some of this, such as the 'kids club' seems possibly intended as parody).

2. He has personally upset a huge number of Discordians. The first two of my subjects have said that they each have had credit for their hard work taken by Loveshade, and they are by no means the only ones.

My position is this; Loveshade, deserving or not, is a well known figure who identifies as Discordian. Two of my subjects to date have been personally affected by Loveshade. It would be dishonest of me to simply pretend that he does not exist.

I am not creating a Public Relations document to promote Discordia. I am endevoring to take a snapshot of Discordia as it manifests today. This means showing all aspects.

I have completed a short Q+A with Loveshade, and as with any other interview or communication, I will work out how much, if any, of it I will use towards the end. If your participation is contingent on making this descision for me, I'm afraid that's not something I'm comfortable with.

What I can assure

- I will explicitly point out that Loveshade's views do not reflect the views of Discordians at large, or the other participants in the project.

-I am not writing to give an unlimited speakers corner to Loveshade or any other participant. I am offering an onging commentary alongside the narrative, and I am happy to point out things that make me or the Discordian community at large uncomfortable.

You are welcome to have your own discussions around this, but please tag me if you have any specific questions.

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Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 18, 2012, 09:06:15 am »

Roger is welcome to participate as is anyone else, so I feel it's a bit disingenous to say I'm 'perfectly fine with leaving Roger out.' I spoke to Roger regarding Loveshade in late August, and it wasn't a dealbreaker at the time. I spoke again two months later in October when he told me he wouldn't be participating, and it was clear to me that this wasn't contingent on my changing my project, and that is wasn't related to LS.

Re; the group, as I said, I handelled it badly at the time, immediately pulling out the four people who announced they wouldn't intend to be participating any more in that LS thread. I had a little freakout, stressing about the group collapsing into drama, and made a poor snap judgment. There's two people in the group now that I'm aware of who have let me know they definately will not be taking part, but rather than making the same mistake repeatedly for the sake of consistency, it seems like less drama and upset to ask those individuals to take themselves out of the group when they're ready.

I do not suspect that any of the troubles I've had over the course of the project are the result of a conspiracy of any form, and haven't suggested as much to anyone.

I'll definitely be contacting Shii, thank you. [Edit: If possible]

Also, Nigel I know you're not telling me that your participation is contingent on my leaving Loveshade out. But others were, so the comments specific to that, were meant for the people to whom they applied, not as an insult to you personally.

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Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 17, 2012, 05:34:18 am »

Dingo, I would like you to address my concerns, and admit that you're only doing this for journalistic integrity and that everyone who is still involved has been informed and can make a "fuck this guy I'm out" call.

Because I'm sorry.

Every group in the world has a fucking pedophile.

Do we need to point at ours, or should we just kick his ass and put him in jail?


What's his age limit? What jurisdiction does he live in?

Right now I'm busy, but posting to say I will address this.

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Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 17, 2012, 04:14:25 am »

I'm happy to address a few points here and there, to clarify but I'm for the must part not going to take a great deal of time to talk in this particular thread, as it's clearly not of use to me as an organising thread.

1. In terms of what I write, I do intend to make explicit that I and Discordia at large are opposed to and appalled by paedophilia/hebephilia (sp?). There've been some completely legitimate concerns regarding the possible implication of others being OK with that, to the point that I agree it needs to be made explicit. I think I want to expand on this soon, and will cross post it.

2. I agree in terms of my actions in terms of the FB group. I had thought I had said as much privately to Nigel but I looked over my message and it wasn't really an apology. So, to the four people I took out of the group, I apologise; I'm sorry for the way in which it was done. I am using this page as a trip organiser and will be limiting membership to people who want involvement but the way I went about achieving that was a dick move.

3. I have not and do not intend to unfriend anyone on Facebook. I suspect some of the people accusing me of doing so were never connected to me on Facebook to begin with. It's petty, passive aggressive behaviour, and I don't indulge in it.

4. If I take a long time to respond to anyone, it will be because I'm crazy busy moving, marking and getting ready for next year. Not because I'm snubbing. (Twid, I'll hit you back in a few hours)

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Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 17, 2012, 02:06:34 am »

Dingo's recent actions positively REEK of Captain Utopia. Especially the part where he thinks he's being reasonable in spite of it being totally obvious to everyone else how utterly fucked up his words and actions are.

Dingo, there's no reason for me to ban you from PD (personal feelings aside) but I will have to absolutely insist that the Chasing Eris project and any future projects you might look to publish are not in any way connected to PD.com. I don't even want this site, any of the content in this site, or any of the usernames on this site mentioned at all, not even in passing.

Post seen.

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Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 16, 2012, 09:51:40 pm »

Thank you all very much for the responses, and I appreciate the concerns.

I have seriously considered peoples concerns and ultimately I'm of the same opinion as before. I have a series of in person and internet interviews collected. If you would like to add yours, I would value your time, however if your participation is contingent on having influence over the final product (other than your own interview, which I will send back to you to check for errors), then I'm afraid I'm not OK with that.

Most people here have known me for three or four years now I think, and are capable of deciding if they trust me to represent Discordia fairly. If you don't trust the decisions I make, I'm OK with that, but I won't be doing interviews contingent on anyone else having final say on what I include.

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Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 16, 2012, 06:59:03 am »

Been at work but this is the main of what I'd like to say.

I thought about some of these issues a lot when Roger first raised concerns regarding Loveshade. The conclusion I came to then is the conclusion I'm at now; I don't have a real problem losing Loveshade; after all, all I have is one Internet  interview which may not even make the final cut, and I have no plans to meet him. However I do have a problem loosing editorial control, and being told who I may and any may not discuss as a Discordian public figure.

More importantly I would feel like a fraud if I were to decide Loveshade were 'too unpleasent' to discuss. I'd feel like I was calling in everyone to smile nicely and look normal. I'm interested in showing all sides of Discordia, not in being an Erisian PR manager. If there are unpleasant things in Discordia, I'm happy to show what they are.

In regards to the FB group I'll admit to a handful of poor choices this morning. It felt to me to be passive aggressive to pull people out without making contact, hence the pms. Possibly this was the wrong call to make, and if so, I apologise.  The facebook group has always been locked and private, and exists for my convenience in organising trip matters. I don't want drama in there, and I don't want people connected who aren't interested in being involved. When I pulled people out today I should have given everyone a bit of notice and a chance to clean up conversations first, and I didn't, which I apologise for.

Regarding the tone around here I seem to be persona non grata so if there's any questions, PM me and I'll post up an answer here.

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Apple Zone / Re: Miley Spears: A retraction, no apology, and laughs at your expense.

« on: November 15, 2012, 10:50:17 pm »

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, I should point out that Loveshade does try to intertwine his beliefs with Discordianism, they aren't simply "surplus opinions a discordian has".  So, there might be merit in his being interviewed with everyone else, out of a sense of completeness.

If I were to watch a documentary, or read a book, on Christianity I would want to now about Fred Phelps too.

There, I said it... Loveshade, the Fred Phelps of Discordia.

I have no objection to him being interviewed.

I simply won't be involved.  At all.

Yeah, I feel like I'm being yelled at because I'm not playing and they want me to play. 

As far as a documentary on Discordia, is this a documentary? Or a series of interviews, which is less like a documentary and more like a collaboration? Will C be including his own analysis of the situation? It appeared to me to be more like a "Discordians, in their own words" kind of project, and less of a "glimpse into modern Discordianism" kind of project, but either way, I don't have to choose to have my words appear alongside those of a hebephile, and there's no compelling reason for  me to do so.

To address the question directly, yes I will be adding some of my own commentary.

For the record if someone chooses to participate or not, I respect that choice.

Could I please ask that my irl name not be used on PD for the next five weeks? I'm still teaching  for the next few weeks and my students occasionally webstalk me.

Also that sucks Roger, and I'm sorry to hear it.

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Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 15, 2012, 08:48:42 pm »

Repost from Facebook.

Regarding Reverend Loveshade.

My intention with Chasing Eris is and always has been "to document contemporary Discordia". I am not interested is writing a propoganda piece endorsing our culture (though if I didn't have personal reasons for valuing Discordia, I would not be, as I am, a Discordian), but rather presenting the whole spectrum of Discordia as it is. As a result I am not interested in cherry picking individual Discordians on the basis of whether they make the culture look good or bad. I am interested in letting those who identify with Discordia lend their voices to the project and speak for themselves in regards to their personal Discordia.

Loveshade is part of the community, and as the recent conversations have shown, has a large and very emotional impact on a number of Discordians. My interest is in presenting this tension as it is, not to cover it with a tablecloth and try to pretend that it does not exist.

I've spoken previously with individuals concerned that their name will be associated with Reverend Loveshade. My answer then and now was this; I am presenting contemporary Discordia, not publishing an endorsement. I intend to be emphasising the extent to which Discordians differ in their views, and will not be implying that any one individual speaks for any other. I am very comfortable allowing individuals to express personal concerns regarding differences of views within the community itself.

I will not be meeting Reverend Loveshade in person but I will be publishing extracts from conversations online.

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Apple Zone / Re: The truth is Romney would never pay for your soul

« on: November 15, 2012, 11:31:04 am »

Wow, trippy.

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Apple Zone / Re: SOCIOLOLGICAL EXPERIMENT

« on: November 13, 2012, 11:35:28 am »

What are some words you would use to describe teenagers? : Irritating, developing, confused, over
-confident (after writing more I feel this is probably unfair, but it's what came into my head first)

How do you feel the media portrays teenagers? In control of own rational desisions, autonomous.

Do you think it is an accurate or an inaccurate representation? I think the shows I've seen teens in (I don't see a lot of tv) are often guilty of creating Teenworld; parents are incompetent and selfish, teachers are sadistic bastards, everything is REALLY DRAMATIC and REALLY IMPORTANT.

What are your impressions of teenagers? Generally I like teenagers. I know I've been super negative here, but I think I'm guilty of absorbing a lot of the kind of venting around where I am (most friends are high school teachers and need to vent). I tend to like the fresh perspective and enthusiasm of teens and find they meet a real variety of points in self devcelopment, some knowing damn well who they are and what they stand for, and some basically a jumble of confused memes (see also; everyone else in the world, but it seems more pronounced in teens). I also find I get a bit impatient with young people when they go on giant enthusiatic WORLD CHANGING CONCEPTS that are actually 300 years old or so if they looked into it. BUT that's just part of the process.

Do you feel like your impressions of teenagers in general are accurate for teenagers you know personally, or yourself if you are a teenager? I think so... I haven't worked directly with teens for about two years now but I work with pre-teens.

Do you think that media representation of teenagers influences your expectations and treatment of teenagers, or other people's expectations and treatment of you if you are a teenager? In truth, I would assume it would have to. But I don't feel a sense of that.. to be honest I think probably my impressions of portreyals of teens in media are less accurate than my impression of flesh and blood teens, as that's what I have more interation with.

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Apple Zone / Re: On behalf of aspies

« on: November 13, 2012, 11:10:47 am »

I'm down with the whole thing. I don't think PD is the kind of place that will have much trouble developing new replacement insults to mock horrible or irritating human beings.

Aside; Cainad, I think generally 'be yourself' is pretty limited advice. Generally people asking how to act WANT to be aware of social cues because doing what comes naturally isn't working for them.

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Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 12, 2012, 02:02:50 pm »

USA MEAT UPS

PORTLAND FEB 9

WHITTIER, SoCal, FRIENDLY HILL BOWL, 23rd FEB

NORTH CAROLINA 16th MARCH

NEW YORK 30th MARCH

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Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 12, 2012, 12:19:04 pm »

If you CAN get out to Whittier on the 23rd of Feb, I think it would be worthwhile, as Dr Bob Newport, on of the first five Discordians will be there, at the Bowling Alley that Gorighlty claims was the alley in the Principia. It's a pretty special scenario, imo.

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Principia Discussion / Re: Chasing Eris

« on: November 11, 2012, 02:18:26 pm »

Generally when people say 'Brooklyn' do they mean NY or MA?

BOSTON, not Brooklyn GAHHHHH. Ignore this message.