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Messages - P3nT4gR4m

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Sudden (somewhat related) thought - Discordianism might benefit from a martyr, like all the proper religions have.

Someone who thought for him/herself but didn't account for the (very real) danger that acting this way would put them in from society at large

I don't think its necessarily unconnected, LMNO, but what if we look at it this way:

Both the Nihilist and the Absurdist are ultimately short-sighted because they focus on the self or individual.  Rearranging your bar cells may be great...but is it really of much use when your entire culture refuses to go along with it?  As Doloros would say, putting her Marxist twist on it, you can consider yourself a Chaos Marxist all you want, but you still have to live in a capitalist society. 

You may realize that you can rearrange your bars, but when the rest of society disagrees, and furthermore, insists those bars are totally real and punishes those who transgress them...well, of what use is this, really?

That is the sort of thing I'm trying to do.  Pointing out limitations, failings, dangerous flaws that we have all overlooked.

This is why I've always felt that TFYS and KYFMS go hand in hand.

I would argue that Nihilism is contained within the BIP.

If BIP is (partially) the thoughts and behaviors that filter existential reality, then the Nihilist view is how one person's BIP is constructed.

Of course, that means the the BIP is also contained within the BIP, which is.... Prisons, all the way down.

Anyway, my point remains that because BIP can be considered mechanism rather than viewpoint, Nihilism is therefore a single possibility within the myriad ways to look at existence.

Shit.  Cain, should I have started a new thread here?  Feel free to split if it's derailing the OP.


The Absurdist would say "You'll never escape, you'll never see everything outside of your confinement 100% clearly... but you can try and in trying there may be value/purpose that you have personally created for yourself."

The Nihilist would say "You'll never escape, you'll never see everything outside of your confinement 100% clearly... rearranging/remolding etc is a waste of time and a fool's errand."

At a meta view, certainly both positions are based on the perceptions of the 'prisoner' and what they can see from their BiP. That is, its part of their BiP to think that remodeling is or is not useful.

IMO, this is a good example of the difference between 'constraints' and 'prison' in my view. That is, the nihilist seems to be in a prison that he cannot change, because he believes he cannot (shades of Nopants, ITT). However, the Absurdist is not imprisoned in a system that cannot be changed, rather he can manipulate it and have fun on the way (Submarines, Spaceships, GSP etc). Both are still confined to experience reality through filters and constraints... one just manipulates it for fun, while the other sits on the prison floor masturbating over the emoness of it all.  :lulz:

This is not nihilism - it's most primates reaction to the nihilistic principle

Nihilism ends at meaninglessness.

Weeping like a little biotch is what happens when a whiny fucing pussy discovers nihilism and it sometimes leads to suicide and this is as good for the gene pool as it is amusing to behold.

Laughing and feeling like that's a load off your mind and feeling generally liberated is how a proper person adopts nihilism. How many of those have you met?

So there's my point - most nihilists are doing it wrong

Nihilism states that there is no God, no meaning to life, no meaning or purpose to anything and if you go look for meaning, you're wasting your time.

Absurdism states that there probably is no God, if there is a meaning or purpose to life we cannot know it. We can make up our own purpose in life and we can go looking for purpose. It's not possible to find the purpose, but the seeking may have value in and of itself. It's not necessary, but it might be useful/valuable/fun.

Absurdism is really just a slightly more positive view of nihilism. They both contend that God and Meaning/Purpose are likely non-existent. Absurdism just accepts that making shit up in your head is as good an option as any, while nihilism sees it as a waste of time. Maybe we could call it Pragmatic Nihilism?

The Black Iron Prison fits the absurdist paradigm, because it holds that you can rearrange your cell AND that its valuable to do so. One of the reasons I created the Submarine/Spaceship/BiP metaphor was because I wanted to stress the absurdist view that "Purpose is whatever you make it out to be".

Now back to Deconstructing Discordianism

Your point on Nihilism, whilst being essentially true of the general nihilist, is something I never really understood. When I arrived at the nihilist pov (never read anything about it - more kinda worked it out for myself) I thought it was great. Made my whole life a lot more fun, without the pressure of living up to some externally imposed mystery meaning.

Years later I discovered nihilists and was genuinely shocked at how depressed they seemed to get about it.

This made me laugh like an idiot, for ages. I still chuckle occasionally. I maintain - Nihilism is a perfectly valid model but most self proclaimed nihilists are doing it wrong :lulz:

Discordianism is seeing the ridiculous for what it is and point blank refusing to go around taking it all srsly like you're expected to. Whether the ridiculous be political, social convention or any other situation where herd mentality rules.

Discordianism can't rule because discordianism is all about how ridiculous the whole concept of rules is.

*disclaimer* ridiculous =/= unnecessary, but hell, even the fact that rules are necessary is pretty fucking ridiculous

Heh. If Sun Tzu had decided to do a sequel called "The Art of Fail" This one would have a chapter all to himself :lulz:

Or Kill Me / Re: I could've been great
« on: June 09, 2009, 11:10:54 pm »
I could be a great artist if it wasn't for the fact that I'm seldom inspired to do anything artistic.

Or Kill Me / Re: I could've been great
« on: June 09, 2009, 09:34:31 pm »
Too late, now I'm in an "artistic depression" :argh!:

Or Kill Me / Re: I could've been great
« on: June 09, 2009, 09:24:59 pm »
Jesus! I'm sorry I used the word "angsty"

I'm not disagreeing with you Nigel - My post was meant to kinda agree with your OP.

The whole "I'm not suffering enough to be a great artist thing" I was proposing that maybe people were making the connection "My hero so and so lived an artists life [pain, insanity, poverty, not even a tinge of angst] and I'm not, so that prevents me doing the art"

It's just as bullshit as the flipside "You aint black and from teh ghettos so you can't rap"

Bring and Brag / Re: captive audience
« on: June 09, 2009, 09:18:12 pm »
:mittens: This made me smile

Or Kill Me / Re: I could've been great
« on: June 09, 2009, 09:16:10 pm »
Van Gogh did some seriously amazing work, but........

I don't think we should confuse mental illness with artist angst.

Just sayin...

"angsty depths of pain and suffering" =/= "artist angst"

Just sayin...

Or Kill Me / Re: I could've been great
« on: June 09, 2009, 08:27:26 pm »
A lot of great art comes from the angsty depths of pain and suffering.

A lot doesn't.

Some people seem to get wrapped up in the whole "Van Gough" trip. Looks to me like they're too obsessed with the trip to even think about the art.

What the fuck do I know? I write some shit on the internet and play guitar badly at parties. That's the kind of artist I am.

But I'm an Honorary Scott, remember?  Don't I get some say? 



Or Kill Me / Re: Insomniac monologue II
« on: June 09, 2009, 06:41:32 pm »
I just can't switch it off, sometimes.

You have to. The alternative is obsession.

My attitude may look like apathy. Hell there's no other word to describe it but it's not a lazy or programmed response. It's more of a path chosen tactically and logically as the one that makes the most sense.

Two ideological soundbites spring to mind -

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"

"charity begins at home"

My immediate experience of the world, my "trip" if you like, is experienced, first hand, from my POV, for 70-80 years or whatever +/-

Distant people being treated horrifically are still distant. Terroristic ambition may repercuss closer to home and with increasing freqency but all I see is my own little shit and those around me going down.

I got enough on my plate dealing with the immediacy of my situation and trying to be part of that solution and enjoy the bits I can, to be bothered with the fact that we all know the politicians is puppets to the moneyfuckers and injustices are happening the world over. I'm on the clock here. 40 years and bit down and the end is looming I got no motivation or incentive to waste what's left worrying about anything other than the primates in my monkeysphere.

In a world I don't really pay much attention to, where there are concepts like right and wrong and justice and shit, my attitude would be considered badwrong and I'd be reprogrammed or punished or whatever. Feel free to condemn me and my ilk but the facts remain - lot of people feel this way. Not everyone can be arsed leading the israelites across the red sea. Nothing is going to change and if it does it won't be by my hand.

So we all agree.  The BIP is a Discordian work and nobody is an asshat.

Not so quick kiddo! The Scottish Empire has not reached a satisfactory conclusion on this issue.

Moar alcohol required.

*edit* Also the Scottish Empire demands it's own emote on this websiet.

MODS!!!  :argh!:

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