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Messages - Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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46
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Turning Purple
« on: December 02, 2016, 04:39:21 pm »
The people who voted for Donald Trump are the quintessence of Middle America: white middle-class people who believe in a particular midcentury ideal of the American Dream, one in which healthy happy nuclear families with a stay-at-home-mom go to church every Sunday. Black people, immigrants, gays, and single parents are not part of this vision; that's why they could so easily disregard ther well-being with their vote. They are racist, but it's the kind of passive racism that allows people to do grievous harm against black communities with their votes while claiming (and earnestly believing) that they are not racist. Abortion isn't an issue for them because good women get married and stay married while good men work hard to support their families. They cant have immigrants TAKING those jobs, that wouldn't be right, and gay people... well, that's alright as long as they keep it behind closed doors, and as long as it's not MY son or daughter because I didn't raise them like that.

It's not a mystery. They are the rosy-cheeked, suburban, middle-class, Christian, white, conservative American Dream. That's what they're fighting for. The ones that don't have it, want it, and they earnestly think that Donald Trump will lead them back into the dream of trickle-down economics by lifting burdens from the wealth creators like Ronald Reagan reborn from the ashes of the 80's.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2016/11/09/donald-trumps-presidenti-victory-demographics/#16ec92b179a8
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/
http://billmoyers.com/story/so-who-are-donald-trumps-voters/

47
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Turning Purple
« on: December 02, 2016, 04:25:10 pm »
Also economic division...but that's not what im here to say now...

You don't think the poor are a marginalized and underrepresented group?

48
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Turning Purple
« on: December 02, 2016, 04:23:44 pm »
Lots of people don't vote because they don't feel like its very effective, and they are right to feel that.

And that's how they get the government they deserve.   :lulz:

Now I feel a bit foolish. Of course taking the ~20 minutes to vote is worth it. It is more effective than other things you could do in that time. I should have just said that they don't feel like its effective but not said they were right to feel so. I guess I am prone to defeatism.

There were areas where it was five to seven hours. Basically, places where people had to miss a full day of work, if they even had the option, in order to vote.

I know I keep playing this fiddle, but THIS WASN'T ACCIDENTAL. This was orchestrated. Since the 2004 election, Republicans have been working furiously at local levels to close polls in poor and black areas, and to institute voter ID laws and other measures, like registration purges, to block poor and black voters, who trend strongly Democrat, from voting.

So without these laws rural/rust belt America would have voted Democrat? Do you still not understand what the electoral college is? Keep in mind, rural/rust belt America did vote Democrat for Obama twice. Very interested in your theory of how Obama won the raging white supremacist vote.

That's a very interesting way of completely not responding to what Nigel actually said.

Eh, he's locked into a reality tunnel. Not worth the time to converse with, because he has already decided what he wants to believe, and information that counters his pre-formed beliefs can't get in.

49
Techmology and Scientism / Re: I need someone smarter than me to parse this
« on: December 02, 2016, 04:18:58 pm »
This is all actually pretty standard perception stuff; reality isn't what we perceive, what we perceive is simply our limited and subjective interface with reality. It's not quite accurate to say that he has devised a mathematical model of consciousness, although he is working on one. I am not sure where the "god" part is coming from, I didn't get that out of it.

I have two quarrels with Hoffman that are basically the same quarrels I have with every old-school cognitive psychologist I've ever met; he likes to talk about quantum physics, but doesn't have a quantum physics background and doesn't understand it well enough to grasp why scientists who DO have quantum physics backgrounds say that it doesn't apply at a macro level. He also, like many classically trained psychologists, has a distinct bent toward believing that philosophy without evidence is adequate to form theory.

It is worth noting that he works with the Chopra Foundation and is a crony of Rupert Sheldrake. http://www.choprafoundation.org/speakers/donald-hoffman/
http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/intentchopra/2012/09/set-science-free-a-review-by-donald-d-hoffman.html

Basically, while what he says about the nature of perception being well removed from the nature of reality is accurate, I would take his other claims and any extrapolations from those claims with a generous pinch of salt. Notice that he decries pretty much all neuroscientists; that is a big tip-off that he is firmly rooted in woo. When you disagree with an entire field about the fundamental nature of the work they are doing, but don't actually have enough of a science background to understand the work they are doing, you are probably the one in error.

Setting all that aside, Michael Shermer has a salient criticism of Hoffman's hypothesis that our perceptual reality has no pressure to conform to actual reality: http://www.michaelshermer.com/2015/11/perception-deception/#more-4721

I think that he is not entirely off the rails, but that he is operating with insufficient understanding of the physical science he decries. He made a few references that seem to verge on an opponent network theory of consciousness, which is the right direction IMO, but I think that his insistence on latching onto a woo-tainted understanding of quantum mechanics is holding him back. Not that quantum mechanics has no relevance in neural processing; it very well might, but unraveling that is going to require neurophysiologists with strong backgrounds in physics, rather than psychologists with behavioral modeling backgrounds.

50
Does Aini count?

That's a good question.

I think of Aini less as a troll, and more as a terminally special snowflake.

51
Beyond the wall / Re: Space dogs
« on: December 02, 2016, 04:51:30 am »
Self-replicating is the current sticking point for most definitions of life, and is the reason viruses, which very nearly qualify as "alive", are in a gray area.

Prions are another I would think.

Not exactly, because they don't "replicate" per se, but rather are a contagious form of misfolding protein that nobody really understands. They're like the shitty memes of the protein world.

52
Beyond the wall / Re: Welcome to Discordia
« on: December 02, 2016, 04:42:26 am »
Sigh.

Keep telling yourself it was about trade deals. It's easier than facing reality I guess.

So trade had absolutely nothing to do with it? Clintons support of the TPP and NAFTA was just trivia? Again, please oh person who was completely ignorant of Trumps victory explain to me how his voters ACTUALLY think.

And keep completely ignoring the economy brahs! Totally isnt a thing that people vote for at all!

I'm pretty sure the Klan vote, for example, didn't give a fuck. I'm also quite sure the fundamentalist Christian vote didn't give a shit either. In both cases there "white male" was the winning ticket.

Or are we still pretending that voters are well informed on a range of issues?

And Nigel, I think it's more likely to be "Fedora issues" for want of a better term. The bullshit mea culpa made that much apparent.

Haha, yeah, fedora issues seem apparent.

As for Trump's constituents, I have seen some very good analyses of their demographics and their primary concerns, some of which have been posted here, all of which far outstrip RPs amateur-hour attempts.

I sure miss Cain, in these dark and trying times.

53
Beyond the wall / Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« on: December 02, 2016, 04:36:43 am »
So incredibly gross and depressing. All these fucking institutions where perverts can go to molest kids.

54
Techmology and Scientism / Re: I need someone smarter than me to parse this
« on: December 02, 2016, 01:32:52 am »
This is right up my alley, but I don't have time at the moment to read it. I'll try to get to it tomorrow morning when I'm actually fresh and bushy-tailed and not fucking off on the internets while training an undergrad on the scope.

55
Beyond the wall / Re: Welcome to Discordia
« on: December 02, 2016, 12:51:22 am »
We're at "1 man 1 jar" level of upset now. It would be comical if I wasn't increasingly sure he's had his humor gland surgically removed. A bag of skittles says it was replaced with a bag of skittles shit.

From what I am gathering, although he was previously upset that I told him to fuck off, he is now upset that I pointed out that he never apologized to me.

 :lulz:

Maybe he has mommy issues.

56
Beyond the wall / Re: Welcome to Discordia
« on: December 01, 2016, 10:23:57 pm »
I'd just like to take a moment to point out that no matter how much unfunny eric has whined about me not accepting his vague blanket apology to the board, he never actually apologized to me.

I mean, since we're all really the same person, that's probably only a technicality though.

Noticed RP disappeared again. Pattern confirmed. Even if it's actually a different guy it's been almost impossible to tell them apart by methodology.

Yeah, for all practical purposes they are the same thing. RP might be fractionally smarter, but also fractionally more delusional.

57
Conference does not overlap with Manitoba, therefore now I have to decide whether I really have time to finish my thesis prospectus AND apply for a conference in the next week.

58
Beyond the wall / Re: Space dogs
« on: November 30, 2016, 11:36:10 pm »
Self-replicating is the current sticking point for most definitions of life, and is the reason viruses, which very nearly qualify as "alive", are in a gray area.

59
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Turning Purple
« on: November 30, 2016, 11:34:13 pm »
Mind you, nonetheless, more than half of the people who did vote -- and it was not a small turnout by historic figures, at all, DESPITE voter suppression -- voted for Hillary Clinton DESPITE THE FACT THAT MANY OF THEM DIDN'T PARTICULARLY LIKE HER. Despite the fact that she's a woman. That's some pretty fucking impressive unity.

60
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Turning Purple
« on: November 30, 2016, 11:31:34 pm »
Lots of people don't vote because they don't feel like its very effective, and they are right to feel that.

And that's how they get the government they deserve.   :lulz:

Now I feel a bit foolish. Of course taking the ~20 minutes to vote is worth it. It is more effective than other things you could do in that time. I should have just said that they don't feel like its effective but not said they were right to feel so. I guess I am prone to defeatism.

There were areas where it was five to seven hours. Basically, places where people had to miss a full day of work, if they even had the option, in order to vote.

I know I keep playing this fiddle, but THIS WASN'T ACCIDENTAL. This was orchestrated. Since the 2004 election, Republicans have been working furiously at local levels to close polls in poor and black areas, and to institute voter ID laws and other measures, like registration purges, to block poor and black voters, who trend strongly Democrat, from voting.

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