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Messages - Eater of Clowns

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2821
The Richard Nixon school of ballet and the arts / Re: ATTN: DOKTOR HOWL
« on: September 21, 2010, 09:17:13 pm »
I don't know what's worse, me having acted like an asshole without really trying, or the fact that Vex is going out of his way to be one.

2822
Khara,
Are you actually trying to insist that I am telling the Dok I know what he's saying better than he does by insisting that you know what I'm saying better than I do?

Fine, fuck it, I admit it.  I'm telling Dok what to think and I'm really intent on showing how much more I know about his own idea than he does.  Furthermore, I'm too stupid to word an argument, much less read one that's been presented very clearly.

I'm out of this thread.  You can resume taking pot shots at me for whatever reason.  Or you can realize that, in two years here, I haven't stirred shit here without provocation, and have attempted to treat people with the respect that I, stupidly, thought they held in return.

EOC OUT.

2823
Dok, I'm starting to think we just can't communicate.  You are, and have been, actively ignoring the larger message in anything I've said to you in the last two days in favor of picking out the snippets you can get outraged about.

You told me earlier you're sorry I can't separate one poorly worded argument from myself.  Well I'm sorry you can't separate one thread in which you refused to converse from the beginning from yourself.  Because it's got nothing to do with 8 years of rants or writing, which you are dragging into it.  It's got to do with this fucking thread, right here.  That's it.

So no, nobody has won the fucking internets.  Instead we have two pains in the ass who are too fucking stupid to set some shit aside and try to move forward.

2824
And I will say EoC, that the comment about mittens was pretty harsh. Dok puts a lot of work in his stuff, and what he wants is intelligent conversation back.

I understand it was harsh.  It's the only conclusion I could come to, when an actual attempt to engage in intelligent conversation was met with the implication that I'm being an idiot and pissing him off.

And really, it's in the same vein as what he said about my reply being an idiotic one.  I didn't tell him that he always, only ever, looks for accolades.  I told him that it's what seems to be happening in this post.  I guess if I'm guilty of not being able to separate my poorly worded argument from me as a person, he's guilty of not being able to separate one instance of not really caring about conversation from a larger trend of him being the initiator of said intelligent conversation.

2825
So yeah, I threw the mittens comment at you because it's precisely the same complete disregard that you'd already expressed toward me in this thread.  I'll fess up to that.  Ook fucking ook.

I'm sorry you can't distinguish between yourself and a badly-worded argument.

Why are we still talking to each other, again?

Well it's simple.  It's the reaction that one "badly-worded argument" garnished.  Instead of assuming that I'm not trying to fuck up your thread and, until the mittens comment, hadn't been attacking you, you proclaimed that I apparently wasn't getting it and was actually being too much of an idiot to get it.  I don't know what in our interactions together has made you think that I'm either intentionally fucking with your shit or meant any disrespect at all in what I was saying, but you're apparently seeing something I'm not.

I don't know why you're still talking to me, but I can tell you why I'm still talking to you.  I mean, aside from the fact that you're mocking me in a thread I tried to back out of before it got out of hand, or the fact that you directly accused me of retiring you from ranting.  I'm still talking because I don't see the need for two people who really aren't so wildly beyond one another's point of view to consider each other enemies.

You're still clinging to the ideas that either I'm too stupid, you're too stupid, or I'm just an asshole.  I really do think that maybe, just maybe, shit got fucked up this one time because that's what's bound to happen, as you have pointed out, when people get involved in anything.

2826
Dok, I realize I'm not brilliant all the time, some of the time, or even at all.  I just don't get how what I was saying was idiocy and needed to apparently be disregarded.  The two ideas aren't incongruous.

I used the train metaphor you came up with to clarify what I meant in the difference between perception and reality.  I know you understand the difference, so the whole filthy inside of the train thing was to point out that I knew the difference as well and intended to, from the beginning, convey that not everyone did.

So yeah, I threw the mittens comment at you because it's precisely the same complete disregard that you'd already expressed toward me in this thread.  I'll fess up to that.  Ook fucking ook.

My perception is that you were.  :lol:

"and I will inform Charley too"



 :argh!: You scamp.

I'm an office cog and a drummer, and didn't go to a "real" college, but you better believe I'm an Ivory Tower pseudo-intellectual.

Granted, I'm trying to get better, but still....

I'd drop the Ivory Tower and pseudo.  I think you're a legit intellectual, in the non-insulting sense.

2827
Why are you dragging me into this?

Not my intention.  It was pretty clear to me that Dok was trying to call me some kind of ivory tower pseudo-intellectual, and I wanted to just state that no, I am not, I'm a fucking Dispatcher who went to a state school.

2828
You're going to hate me for this, Dok.   :)

Reality is not subjective, and I imagine here it's being used in the same vein as The Truth and other capital letters.  Interpretation of reality, which I think taps into one of your previous series regarding reality filters (or grids to go by Principia Discordia terminology) is highly subjective.  I'm standing at the corner of a busy street with my 70 year old neighbor.  A car goes by and she says "Wow that car is really going fast," whereas I see a car going, yes, faster than other cars, but not necessarily stupidly fast.  That's the subjective interpretation that gets conflated with actual reality.

So you have this anarchist or libertarian who sees their ideas propagated amongts like minded friends or forums, or in their various holy texts.  Otherwise, maybe it's a Discordian, a Tea Partier, any individual who self identifies with a group or movement like we do and like all people do.  Suddenly their insular environment cements their interpretations as fact, and we have just as strong, if not a stronger filter to work through because this one was molded off the idea that we are without filters.

I CHOOSE NOT TO INTERPRET THAT SOUTHBOUND FREIGHT TRAIN, AS I LIKE STANDING ON THE TRACKS.

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

This is where the comment about mittens came from, Dok.  You replied mocking something I wasn't even saying.  So yeah, it pretty much clues me in that you aren't interested discussing your post.  

I really don't know where the animosity came from that you assumed I meant the worst for you.  Like I said yesterday, I was under the impression we had some kind of mutual respect.  I respect you, but instead, I get treated like some asshole you're now accusing of a bunch of things that aren't even true.

Oh, and the ivory tower thing, really.   :lulz:  You know, and I will inform Charley too, that I work at a fucking jail.  You have even ridden in my shitty '98 Honda Civic.  If I'm in an ivory tower that's one small fucking tower.

2829
Alright, I thought I was done in this thread, but apparently all that means is I'm going to get ridiculed.  Apparently I did a poor job of getting myself across.

Roger, at no point, in any of my posts, have I disagreed with or corrected anything you said in the OP.  I'm not arguing that how someone perceives reality changes it.  What I was attempting to do is contribute to the thread, constructively, which I am still hoping can be done.

So I will try again:

Reality, as Roger stated, is not subjective.  I agree with that, and stated so in my posts.  Perceptions of reality, whether you want to call them reality filters or grids, are subjective.

So at the end of the OP, Dok states that a fundamental error people make about this is that it somehow doesn't apply to themselves.  I was arguing that this is true, and adding that people also mistake their perception of reality for reality itself.  This doesn't change reality because as has been established, reality is not subjective.  But when people think that their screwy grids are the non-subjective reality, it becomes a trap.

That is really all.

2830
The second half of the Pats-Jets game was painful to watch, and not just as a New England fan.  It was just a really incredibly shitty performance.

Dolphins-Vikings just before it was an awesome nailbiter, and last night's Saints-49ers was also very good.

2831
RPG Ghetto / Re: SPIDERS: It's not a game.
« on: September 21, 2010, 03:10:36 pm »
Hey now, having 8 legs and 6 eyes doesn't make one a Spider.

They could just be part of a "collection."

2832
Nobody is arguing that the train isn't there, or that it can harm you by standing in its path. 

Yes, yes there are.  Every fucking day.  I can stuff you full of examples until you die of stupidity poisoning, if you like.

 :lulz: Point taken.  What I should have said is that I am not arguing that the train isn't there.  Now I'm not sure if your reply to my longer post was commenting on what I was saying or commenting on the mentality of the people I was talking about.

This thread wasn't illustrating two guys arguing whether a color is blue-green or greenish-blue.

Just saying.

Dok,
Full of hate again, and off to torment the engineer.

I'm aware of that.  I must've mistaken this for a discussion topic, wherein someone could explain how they see two of your pieces are linked.  I see you'd prefer an "awesome, Dok" or some mittens instead.

I'll be done in this thread, then.

2833
Nobody is arguing that the train isn't there, or that it can harm you by standing in its path. 

Yes, yes there are.  Every fucking day.  I can stuff you full of examples until you die of stupidity poisoning, if you like.

 :lulz: Point taken.  What I should have said is that I am not arguing that the train isn't there.  Now I'm not sure if your reply to my longer post was commenting on what I was saying or commenting on the mentality of the people I was talking about.

2834
You're going to hate me for this, Dok.   :)

Reality is not subjective, and I imagine here it's being used in the same vein as The Truth and other capital letters.  Interpretation of reality, which I think taps into one of your previous series regarding reality filters (or grids to go by Principia Discordia terminology) is highly subjective.  I'm standing at the corner of a busy street with my 70 year old neighbor.  A car goes by and she says "Wow that car is really going fast," whereas I see a car going, yes, faster than other cars, but not necessarily stupidly fast.  That's the subjective interpretation that gets conflated with actual reality.

So you have this anarchist or libertarian who sees their ideas propagated amongts like minded friends or forums, or in their various holy texts.  Otherwise, maybe it's a Discordian, a Tea Partier, any individual who self identifies with a group or movement like we do and like all people do.  Suddenly their insular environment cements their interpretations as fact, and we have just as strong, if not a stronger filter to work through because this one was molded off the idea that we are without filters.

I CHOOSE NOT TO INTERPRET THAT SOUTHBOUND FREIGHT TRAIN, AS I LIKE STANDING ON THE TRACKS.

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

Nobody is arguing that the train isn't there, or that it can harm you by standing in its path.  Those would be reality.  If it came to discussing the train being filthy inside, or just untidy, that would be an interpretation of reality.  What I was saying is that people take the latter, and treat is as though it's the former.

2835
You're going to hate me for this, Dok.   :)

Reality is not subjective, and I imagine here it's being used in the same vein as The Truth and other capital letters.  Interpretation of reality, which I think taps into one of your previous series regarding reality filters (or grids to go by Principia Discordia terminology) is highly subjective.  I'm standing at the corner of a busy street with my 70 year old neighbor.  A car goes by and she says "Wow that car is really going fast," whereas I see a car going, yes, faster than other cars, but not necessarily stupidly fast.  That's the subjective interpretation that gets conflated with actual reality.

So you have this anarchist or libertarian who sees their ideas propagated amongts like minded friends or forums, or in their various holy texts.  Otherwise, maybe it's a Discordian, a Tea Partier, any individual who self identifies with a group or movement like we do and like all people do.  Suddenly their insular environment cements their interpretations as fact, and we have just as strong, if not a stronger filter to work through because this one was molded off the idea that we are without filters.

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