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Messages - Mangrove

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I work with some stupid kids, man. In the sense that these kids are fucked over by the world from day one, before they're even born. It's easy to see where a lot of these guys are headed, and it isn't anywhere good. They are going to do some stupid things, and end up in stupid places. I probably wouldn't like the adults many of them are going to become. But only a monster would feel disdain for these kids. Only a monster would fail to feel compassion.

Well, they were born guilty.  Lots of people are.  It's not their fault, but there you have it.  Take any of them and put them in front of a jury in Oro Valley, and they'd be sent to prison for life, before any charges are named.

Guilty = WRONG = Stupid = tired and poor and weak.

Innocent = RIGHT = Smart = rich and powerful.

A friend of mine works as an investigator for the Public Defender's office. He used to be a marine and a cop and now his job is to make sure that the police are doing their jobs properly. One day, he was particularly pleased with the outcome of a case. Goes something like this:

"Many of the people I have to deal with have actually done what they're accused of. Still, I have to make sure that everything has been dealt with properly. However, every now and then, you get someone who gets snarled up in the system. This one guy I'm helping is, without doubt, really really stupid....but he's not a bad person and he's definitely not guilty of what he's accused of."

I can't remember the exact details of the situation but it involved a not very bright individual, drugs and a hooker. However, it was too easy for the cops to say "Ok, dumb guy with issues, it must be him."

Don't forget, going on camera, and crying about your dead friend is somehow Metallica's fault.

               / I'M SOOOO METALLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Both my grandfather's were tradesmen. My mom's dad left school at 14 and spent his life making shoes. Although he had limited formal education, he was very skillful artistically and had quite a philosophical bent.

My dad's father was an electrician in the dockyard. Was hamfisted with just about everything he did unless he had to do with wires and electricity in which case, he was really good. He also had a limited formal education but read widely and voraciously as an adult.

My dad was the first person on either side of the family to go to University in the early 60s. Although he did get the formal education his parents didn't, he's one of the most pragmatic & resourceful people I know. He's got the kind of brain where he can see something in his head and build it right away with very little fuss. Given that I can't even hammer a fucking nail straight into a piece of wood, this is never ceases to amaze me!

To be honest though, if those guys hadn't been on TV, everyone would have gotten massive pedo vibes off them anyway.  I mean, imagine seeing the ghoulish viasge of Jimmy Savile without ever having known of him before.  My first reaction as an adult would be to look for a knife and then a wall to put my back to.

Yeah, I think Jon Stewart did a bit on this on the Daily Show. They showed Sir Jim looking particularly skeevy and deranged and asked "How did you not know this guy was sick?"

With people like Freddie Star or Davidson, you have the venerable British institution of 'sea side post card' or 'Carry On' movies whereby 'cheeky chappies' are condoned for being over sexed assholes. None of the people who have been called in for interview have struck me as being especially surprising.

We should probably define a few terms here:

Uneducated - While a person may be smart or stupid, they lack the tools to put what brainpower they have to use, or to optimum use.
Stupid -  The condition of ignoring skills learned when attempting a task or conversation.
Willfully ignorant -  The condition of NOT WANTING the tools to use your intelligence, because you've put on a uniform that disagrees with those tools for one reason or another.
Smart -  The condition of having the brains, education, and emotional stability required to make good decisions.
Fool. -  One who blindly follows the reasoning of another, because thinking for themselves is either too much bother, or they need to follow the pack.
Brain damaged -  Physical damage to the brain that prevents one from learning or making good decisions.
Emotionally impaired - The condition of having emotions overriding thought.
Dunning/Kruger - I am a genius in all things, surrounded by retards.  I know more about your specialty than you do, even though I have no training in the field.

Anyone want to change or add to this?

I like this list. Can we call it The Spectrum of Derp?


Exaro News ( today reveals that for the last two months the police have secretly been scoping a new investigation into senior politicians and their involvement in a paedophile ring, involving  under age boys, that took place in the 1980s.

This is separate to the current Operation Yewtree  investigation into Jimmy Savile and other celebrities, which mainly involves under age girls.

They are looking again at a raid that took place in 1982 on a  guest house in Barnes, south London, which appeared to be being used as a gay brothel and was frequented by prominent figures including, I am told, ministers, Tory MPs, a Liberal MP and two Labour Mps. Under age boys in  the care  of Richmond council and other local authorities were  visiting or staying at the guest house.

However, it should be noted that the police reasons for investigating this might not be out of genuine concern for the victims and a sense of justice.

As anyone who has been following the "Plebgate" scandal knows, it seems the Metropolitan Police are not very happy with the Tories, and indeed attempted to stitch up the Chief Whip with a faked but plausible controversy.

My belief is that the cuts, along with the handling of the Leveson Inquiry, made the police very unhappy with the Tories, and there is a simmering sense of resentment among the rank and file...the sort of feeling that leads to bent coppers trying every dirty trick in the book to get their target in trouble.

Such a ring may exist.  Actual members of the ring may even be implicated.  But then again, maybe they won't be.

Damn you History Channel!! That's how they end every single program: "Jesus might have been an Egyptian wizard from Mars....or he might not...we'll never know...but what if he was!??"

Seriously would be entirely unsurprising if there was a ring consisting of MPs and sundry other power types. One of the many annoying features of conspiracy theorists (aside from them being barking mad) is that they are always looking for something vast, all encompassing and grand. I think that they miss the point that many conspiracies are actually much more banal & mundane (though no less disgusting.)  Something as basic and base as 'A bunch of pervs used their political influence to fuck children for kicks' is a lot more believable than 'The US has reverse engineered UFO propulsion and don't want you to know'. Proving the existence of sexual perversion is a hell of lot easier than making a case for space aliens.

Also - Jim Davidson is the latest 'celeb' caught up in the Saville wake. Did the police just sit down and write a list of 'obnoxious entertainers of the 80s'?  Freddie Starr, DLT and Jim Davidson.

I think the chip on his shoulder from being kicked out of Metallica mestastisised to turn him into a gigantic asshole, but I guess the drugs blunted it back in the 80s and 90s.  He's such a whiney prick.

This is serious stuff. He's strapped for cash, customer service isn't always as good as he hoped, Obama is a mass-murderer and someone had the audacity to photoshop a Christmas card. FIGHT THE POWER!!!


Altruism - knowing that it isn't always about 'you'.

Lesson #1

Make outrageous claim about Obama being a gun-grabbing nazi who conspired to create various mass shootings. (Bonus points for believing Rick Santorum had presidential qualities...)

Lesson # 2

Utilize social media to make an enormous fuss over nothing.

Please note the hysterically inconsistent: I really think that it sucks when people make false claims.." Also, please note well established career musician pleading poverty. Ok, so he's not making Justin Beiber money, but still, I can't help but think his plea of "We are all living in very tight financial times right now.." is a little disingenuous.

Lesson #3

Nothing quite says 'rock and roll rebel' quite like a Christmas Card competition. SRS BIZNESS

A posting on reads, "Although we were notified of the possible plagiarism by an anonymous fan in Brazil after the Christmas Day call was already placed, we are investigating this matter further."

Yes. Getting to the bottom of the fraudulent winner of a Megadeth art contest is the best use of Dave's critical faculties.

And that's how to NOT be metal. Tune in next week when I explain why Taylor Swift doesn't really play country music.

1920 Firearms Act started it off, really, though there was some pistol legislation in 1903.

Basically, post-WWI fear of social unrest, Communism and crime led to the need for licences to buy firearms, and to provide reasons for wanting them.

Thank you, sir!

I did wonder if this was connected to WWI.

He made the point that the 2nd Amendment was not a new idea but merely existed to enshrine existing rights carried over from English law. (Cue the delicious irony that 99.9% of all Brits think Americans are impossibly stupid and irresponsible for loving guns so much.)

Well, that's just the British, not knowing their own history (nothing new there).  In Victorian England, you could buy a gun for personal use, no questions asked, no forms to fill in.  A gentleman was practically required to own at least one handgun and one hunting rifle.

When/how did Britain end up being a largely gun-free nation with some of the strictest laws?

The Richard Nixon school of ballet and the arts / Re: Touchy Subjects
« on: January 02, 2013, 06:33:25 pm »
I always thought kinesthetics was a touchy subject.

Hey Roger,

Don't know if you (or anyone else in this thread) have come across this book:

I saw the author doing an interview on the history of gun legislation and it was an eye opening experience. He made the point that the 2nd Amendment was not a new idea but merely existed to enshrine existing rights carried over from English law. (Cue the delicious irony that 99.9% of all Brits think Americans are impossibly stupid and irresponsible for loving guns so much.)

He then went on to say that gun legislation and control has always existed even back in ye olde colonial 'founding father' times that Conservatives seem to love so much. People were required to serve in militias as needed and if they didn't have their own weapon, the town would rent them one - all of which was registered and recorded. Interestingly, no one ever mentioned guns for either hunting or self defense.

Other interesting side avenues was the fact that, well established towns in the so called 'wild west' had gun control and it was a legal requirement that visitors turned their fire arms over to the sheriff. If you were not freezing your ass off in a little shack on the frontiers, there was gun control. The 'everyone packing heat in the old West' notion has been greatly over stated by that bastion of accuracy 'Hollywood'. (This also ties in nicely with Nigel's point about puncturing the myth of the 'rugged individualist'.) The rugged individualist also had to hand over his gun and if he didn't, he was in deep shit - which is funny because the author mentioned that the legendary OK Corral incident was, a dispute that owed itself in part, to the unwillingness to comply with gun surrender laws. [He also got into the issues concerning concealed carry and why that is a hangover from the popularity in the Southern states for pistol dueling.]

Perhaps what was most startling was there was a time when the NRA actually was in support of measures following the rash 1960s assassinations (Kennedys & MLK.) Back then, even Charleton Heston was behind it, it was only later that he got entrenched into the 'first step to tyranny' meme.

Seems that the NRA took a new approach in the 80s which took the form of 'the police can't protect you, do it yourself' and have been flogging it ever since. The whole notion that 'Freedom = Own a gun'  as representing American values and history doesn't pan out on closer examination. There has always been laws surrounding fire arms and it began with the

What the NRA are really doing (IMHO) is playing upon what has really been the issue for much of the 20th century which is 'the freedom to be a consumer'. Tell people absolutely anything and everything to make them want your product and do absolutely anything and everything to make sure that access to said product is entirely unimpeded - no matter how impractical, dangerous or irrelevant that product may be. All the better if you can push the emotional 'patriotism button' and cite authority based on a convenient, revisionist view of history.



The Richard Nixon school of ballet and the arts / Re: The Last Whiskey Bar
« on: December 24, 2012, 06:38:54 pm »
While you're at it, sue Steve Jackson.  Just because.

Well, it WAS the SJ version of the Principia that I discovere and I DO remember my wife giving me some strange looks when I was trying to explainit to her.  I'm gonna take him to the cleaners!

Discordianism contributed to the demise of your marriage. Case closed. Check cashed!  :banana:

The Richard Nixon school of ballet and the arts / Re: The Last Whiskey Bar
« on: December 24, 2012, 01:56:26 pm »
With batshit crazy commentary from Victoria Jackson:

"I can't stop crying.  America Died.  Thanks a lot, Christians, for not showing up.  You disgust me."


I had to the google that. Wish I hadn't.  :argh!:

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