The Sacred Chao Te Ching

[Telarus]

        

[fomenter]

Reading this, and reading Ancient China on Postmodern Warfare suggests to me not only is a Discordian Art of War possible, it is downright desirable.

yes

[LMNO]

Reading this, and reading Ancient China on Postmodern Warfare suggests to me not only is a Discordian Art of War possible, it is downright desirable.

Oh holy shit YES.

[LMNO]

Back on topic. To discuss:




TGGR keeps his mind
always at one with the Chao;
that is what gives him his shtick.

The Chao is ineffable.
How can his mind be at one with it?
Because he doesn't whine about minutiae.

The Chao is vast & immeasurable.
How does it give him his shtick?
'Cuz he would kill a mother fucker.
Even before time & space were,
The Chao was.
Far beyond the logos.   
How do I know this is true?
Think for yourself, schmuck.

[Roaring Biscuit!]

Back on topic. To discuss:




The Angered One keeps his mind
always at one with the Chao;
that is what gives him his shtick.

The Chao is ineffable.
How can his mind be at one with it?
Because he doesn't whine about minutiae.

The Chao is vast & immeasurable.
How does it give him his shtick?
'Cuz he would kill a mother fucker.
Even before time & space were,
The Chao was.
Far beyond the logos.   
How do I know this is true?
Think for yourself, schmuck.

better?

[Honey]

Freedom exists through Eris Discordia.
What we call Eris Discordia is Chaos,
elusive and intangible.
Elusive and intangible, yet within it is Order.
Intangible and elusive, yet within it is
Disorder.
Random and uncalculating, yet with in it is
Life.

Life is real, and has the power of Creation.
From the moment we are born,
We create the patterns of Illusion,
From which we ever after try and free
ourselves.
How do I know of these Illusions?
By observing Chaos.

Or another interp

TGGR keeps his mind  or in a somewhat issue free vein:  The wise spag keeps his mind
always at one with the Chao;
that is what gives him his shtick.

The Chao is ineffable.
How can his mind be at one with it?
Because he doesn't whine about minutiae.

The Chao is vast & immeasurable.
How does it give him his shtick?
'Cuz he would kill a mother fucker.

Even before time & space were,
The Chao was.
Far beyond the logos.
How do I know this is true?
Think for yourself, schmuck.


& note to TSosBR!:  Y'think that's angry?  Hah!  y'don't want to get me started on those damn lovely damn lovely damn lovely damn lovely lazers rays thingies o' his!!!  I get all more confused just thinking about 'em & then ... HOLY SHIT!! how the hell does he DO that?   

[Cramulus]

I like it better as the Wise Spag than as TGRR.

I'm not 100% on the term "Wise Spag" either, but that's a separate issue. "Spag" is neat because it's not a word really, so it can mean whatever the reader wants it to mean. (not just saying that 'cause I made it up, I promise!) It works for now, but I think there might be a word out there that makes us go "yeah! that's what I was talking about!". Until then, Wise Spag is the best choice.


line six "Because he doesn't whine about minutiae."
I LIKE this! I'd like to add something like

and because he doesn't buy into the "big picture"

the line "'Cuz he would kill a mother fucker." doesn't yet speak to the question before it. Why does the unspeakability of chaos give the wise guy his shtick? I think: it's because any model you can talk about is probably wrong, so any religion you pick is wrong, so you might as well be wrong, right? Oh Discordia!

The final line I think needs a little tinkering too, but not sure.





I wrote this, but I'm not sure where to put it. Wonder how you guys feel about it. Does it groove with what we've got?

Code Select Expand

Anything could be a punchline.
The Discordian sucker punches suckers
both the wise and foolish
both the wrong and the right
both the deserving and the undeserving
both inaverdently and averdently and
both those that get it and those that don't
and even herself
below the belt.

Whether the Discordian likes it or not,
those are the facts.

The Discordian survives.
She has no hit points
she has no points to hit

inaverdently or averdently

Everything is a punchline




(
should stand without explanation, but I should tip my hat to Telarus' thought in this post:

dealing with all things carelessly, like used talismans.

)

[Cain]

Spag and Sage are pretty close, as words go.

[fomenter]

not real keen on shtick might need a better word if we could find one

Anything could be a punchline.
The Discordian sucker punches suckers
both the wise and foolish
both the wrong and the right
both the deserving and the undeserving
both inaverdently and averdently and
both those that get it and those that don't
and even herself
below the belt.

Whether the Discordian likes it or not,
those are the facts.

The Discordian survives.
She has no hit points
she has no points to hit

inaverdently or averdently

Everything is a punchline

i like this a lot

inadvertently or averdently/inaverdently spelling error or meaning i am missing? averdently isnt a word or is it?

[Honey]

I like it better as the Wise Spag than as TGRR.

That one was the 1st one I wrote I think & I'm really not attached to any of it - one of the reasons I included the 1st interps.  I like the elusive ideas & the intangible entangles me quite often & random of course too & the flow of it. 

I'm not 100% on the term "Wise Spag" either, but that's a separate issue. "Spag" is neat because it's not a word really, so it can mean whatever the reader wants it to mean. (not just saying that 'cause I made it up, I promise!) It works for now, but I think there might be a word out there that makes us go "yeah! that's what I was talking about!". Until then, Wise Spag is the best choice.

I like Wise Spag as a standalone term because it sounds kinda oxymoronic but might not be.  (kudos for making it up! didn't know that - see how my discordia knowledge fails?)

line six "Because he doesn't whine about minutiae."
I LIKE this! I'd like to add something like

and because he doesn't buy into the "big picture"

like that line too!

the line "'Cuz he would kill a mother fucker." doesn't yet speak to the question before it. Why does the unspeakability of chaos give the wise guy his shtick? I think: it's because any model you can talk about is probably wrong, so any religion you pick is wrong, so you might as well be wrong, right? Oh Discordia!

What I was going for there (I think) is more like the Zen master's frustration with noobs coming to them with ideas of *instant enlightenment* so they hit them on the head with a big fish or an even bigger koan.

Anything could be a punchline.
The Discordian sucker punches suckers
both the wise and foolish
both the wrong and the right
both the deserving and the undeserving
both inaverdently and averdently and
both those that get it and those that don't
and even herself
below the belt.

Whether the Discordian likes it or not,
those are the facts.

The Discordian survives.
She has no hit points
she has no points to hit,

inaverdently or averdently,

Everything is a punchline.

This is great!  Tip o' the hat here too!  Love the idea of the used talisman or straw dog or the rolled apple!  That is where the phrase "straw dog" came from I think?  Useful if used as a sacred object, then back to being a place holder after being used, you can do what you will with it, & the sacredness of everyday objects when imbued with ... (& oh to be used like that would be a wonder & just maybe WE are?)

[Honey]

oh & shtick speaks to schmuck, again not attached to it although I do like Yiddish (not easily translated & vaudevillian in scope) but it is a throwback.  New word for shtick?  I'll start using it immediately irl if I like it.

[LMNO]

not real keen on shtick might need a better word if we could find one

To me, shtick is a "go-to" game rule, or an easy mask, or the defensive behavior state, or an agressive bluster.

It's a familiar pattern to use in an unfamiliar situation, a comfort zone of behavior.

In the way it is being used right now, it seems that the first stanza is saying, "The wise spag is always mindful of Chaos, which is why he acts as he does."

The bit about killing a motherfucker seems to land in the same territory as Prison Cell and Barstool; that is, a PD.com specific term that might be intelligible to outsiders. 

What is meant by killing a motherfucker in this verse?  It seems to say, "Chaos is fucking HUGE, and can't be imagined fully. Because of this, the wise spag acts like _________."  I would fill in the blank with he "acts like he knows he's probably wrong."  However, that's not fully it.  He also knows that everybody else is probably wrong, too.  So when some motherfucker comes up and starts acting like they have TRUTH, well...

So, what's a better way of saying this?

The Chao is vast & immeasurable.
How does it give him his [shtick]?
Because he knows there is no right answer.


It's a start...

inadvertently or averdently/inaverdently spelling error or meaning i am missing? averdently isnt a word or is it?

I'm thinking it's a spelling mistake.  Although, apparently an antonym of "inadvertent" is "advertent".  I did not know that. 


LMNO
-learns something new every day.

[LMNO]

Incidentally, I propose that chapters with two entries be split into new chapters.  I don't want the TTC to confine our ideas that rigidly.  So what if we have 87 chapters instead of 81?

[Cramulus]

Yes, was a spelling mistake 

I think it's fine to add new chapters so long as we're comfortable also removing chapters.

No chapters jump out at me as "candidates for deletion", but I'm open to the idea of removing one or two where it sounds like we're repeating ourselves.

As for the splits chapters, what we basically have is two interpretations of the same chapter. Instead of making them separate entries, we should cut them up and mix them together.

If we end with 81 chapters, I think that'll be cool, but only because I like there being a shadow of correspondence between the two books. That is not necessary to the project.




I went back through the chapters reading it with "The Wise Spag" as "The Discordian", and I kind of like how that feels. What about you guys? Take a look at it, chew it over...


I've been also musing about coming up with a "mission statement" for this book. Basically, after we get a "finished" PDF out, I suspect that we'll never really be "done" and will see zillions of little things we want to change. That's fine, and we can leave ourselves open to new editions if we have the collective drive. The PDF should be free to DL and protected by creative-commons protected.  which leads me to this...

We should really talk about a license I guess, so here's my proposal:



Non-Commercial Share Alike

This license lets others remix, tweak, and build upon your work non-commercially, as long as license their new creations under the identical terms. Others can download and redistribute your work just like the by-nc-nd license, but they can also translate, make remixes, and produce new stories based on your work. All new work based on yours will carry the same license, so any derivatives will also be non-commercial in nature.

[Honey]

Incidentally, I propose that chapters with two entries be split into new chapters.  I don't want the TTC to confine our ideas that rigidly.  So what if we have 87 chapters instead of 81?

Cha Cha Chuhhh Ching!

(just want to say tho, please feel free to let my words go if they don't fit somehow?  Being new to this & all but there's no use forcing.  There're times for rigidity but this ain't one of 'em!)  

I gotta go, almost late, will read later.