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The Barstool Experiment

Started by LHX, June 13, 2006, 05:31:36 PM

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LMNO

I think we need to have a different word than "reality".

Because, what it seems you're talking about isn't the little bits of stuff whizzing around the universe, it's about human relations and human culture.

Which would make Fuzzy's (hi, Fuzzy.  Welcome to the boards) statement say, "If it there were no humans, we wouldn't have this fucked up human culture."

Which, being a tautology, is quite true.


But even if there were no humans, those little bits of stuff would still be whizzing around the universe.

Cain

Reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it.

LMNO

Exactly.


I just used more words.






LMNO
-Verbose motherfucker.

Triple Zero

Quote from: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 01:05:32 PM
But even if there were no humans, those little bits of stuff would still be whizzing around the universe.

do you have anything to back up this statement with?
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

LMNO

Yup.


Those bits were whizzing around before we knew they were there.  They didn't suddenly appear just because we invented a positron collider.

And, modern physicis has removed the observer from the equations (contrary to what the pseudo-physics nutjobs say).

So, if things are whizzing around, and we remove an incredibly small amount of that stuff (humans), the stuff would still whiz around.

No, our observations do not create the physical universe.

AFK

How about the ocean deeps?  I think it's safe to say there is no humanity down there, cept for the occassional National Geographic submarine.  There's a certain reality, or "bits of stuff" that have, I assume, been existing without our presence.  Perhaps if we weren't around it would be different, in fact I'm sure it would be somehow.  But it would still "be" in some fashion wouldn't it?
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

LMNO


Cain

Quote from: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 02:18:50 PM
Yup.


Those bits were whizzing around before we knew they were there.  They didn't suddenly appear just because we invented a positron collider.

And, modern physicis has removed the observer from the equations (contrary to what the pseudo-physics nutjobs say).

So, if things are whizzing around, and we remove an incredibly small amount of that stuff (humans), the stuff would still whiz around.

No, our observations do not create the physical universe.

ZOMG MY MIND JUST COLLAPSED THE WAVE FIELD TO MAKE YOU SAY THAT!

LMNO


Fuzzymike

Think about it, when you are born do you have any preconceived notions about what reality is? I don't know. I don't personally remember being born, in fact my first memories are when I was about 2-3. Thats a long ass time for my parents and anyone else around me during that time to impose their will, their perceptions, their beliefs on mine. And at such a critical time when I have no defense, no way to cut out the bull shit and lies. And so it is with almost all children. I think the only "humans" capable of having a clear, unclouded view of reality would have to be an infant that was removed from the rest of the species at birth, and not introduced to the concept of "human" till they were about 5 yrs or so and had a good solid grasp on the concept of "me" first. Unfortunetley such a child would be nothing like a "civilized" child in the traditonal sence and would probably seem quite alien to those of us who were imprinted with the preconcieved notion of "human" from birth. But back to the original point, take such a child, or better yet put yourself in the mind of such a child, how would things seem to you. What would you make of these loud, poison spewing animals rolling along the paths with other animals inside them? what are these tall shiny rocks the other animals are moving in and out of constantly? And whats with these leaves with faces on them that the other animals keep throwing at each other. In conclusion reality as it is commonly percieved today is a thin veneer of civilization laid over the very real instincts and motivations of a monkey. How did that veneer get there its not there at birth, it must have been placed over us by our elders and perpetuated through the generations. Reality is a joke and "humans" are th punchline. Have a nice day. :fnord:
That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger... except polio.

LMNO

Of course, you're talking about the way we percieve and interpret the whizzing bits in the Universe, not about the bits themselves.

Payne

Quote from: Fuzzymike on May 24, 2007, 02:55:21 PM
Think about it, when you are born do you have any preconceived notions about what reality is? I don't know. I don't personally remember being born, in fact my first memories are when I was about 2-3. Thats a long ass time for my parents and anyone else around me during that time to impose their will, their perceptions, their beliefs on mine. And at such a critical time when I have no defense, no way to cut out the bull shit and lies. And so it is with almost all children. I think the only "humans" capable of having a clear, unclouded view of reality would have to be an infant that was removed from the rest of the species at birth, and not introduced to the concept of "human" till they were about 5 yrs or so and had a good solid grasp on the concept of "me" first. Unfortunetley such a child would be nothing like a "civilized" child in the traditonal sence and would probably seem quite alien to those of us who were imprinted with the preconcieved notion of "human" from birth. But back to the original point, take such a child, or better yet put yourself in the mind of such a child, how would things seem to you. What would you make of these loud, poison spewing animals rolling along the paths with other animals inside them? what are these tall shiny rocks the other animals are moving in and out of constantly? And whats with these leaves with faces on them that the other animals keep throwing at each other. In conclusion reality as it is commonly percieved today is a thin veneer of civilization laid over the very real instincts and motivations of a monkey. How did that veneer get there its not there at birth, it must have been placed over us by our elders and perpetuated through the generations. Reality is a joke and "humans" are th punchline. Have a nice day. :fnord:

Regardless of what conditioning we receive as very young children, our perceptions will always be skewed. Even if you are raised by wolves, you will still have a skewed sense of "reality".

I wouldn't say that humans are the punchline in any cosmic joke, it still places us at the centre of everything, showing that you, at least would inextricably link humans with perception of reality.

The "veneer of civilisation" is part of the CoN, as I understand it. It's not so much placed there by our progenitors, as it is placed there by every cabbage we interact with, even when we CAN start to think for ourselves.

The bolded statement above, I believe could land you in jail in several countries. "Put yourself in a child" indeed.......  :D

AFK

Fuzzymike,

Fundamentally, I have to disagree with you on some points.  #1, I don't think parents can have as much impact on a child from 0 to 2 as you seem to be claiming, at least, not in the fashion you are claiming.  At that age, really, all the infant is doing is learning about his or her world.  The child is trying to figure out how to use his limbs, how to communicate that he needs food, to be changed, etc.  I don't think a child really has the capacities to have preconceived notions grafted onto his perceptions.  I say this from the experience of having currently a 3 year old.  I could have read the PD to her when she was one year old, and gone on at lengths about Discordianism and how to be a Discordian, to her it just would have been:  "yada, yada, yada".  Now, I would say at about 2 to 3 then, yes, a child can be susceptible to his parents ideas and ideals.  

I have no doubt that the world and "reality" do seem quite different to a 5 year old compared to a 31 year old.  I mean, of course it is.  It takes a really, really long time for a child to learn about the world and his or herself.  The brain continues to develop until the age of 25, so even in young adulthood, our perceptions are changing.  

I disagree with your summation because it seems to assume a purposeful act on behalf of "our elders."  I think there are a lot of well meaning parents out there, like myself, who try their best to let their child grow up and discover who they are on their own.  And to learn and discover about their world on their terms.  However, the parental instinct of keeping the child safe from harm is a very strong one.  So, in the name of security a parent may instill certain ideas into the child.  Some are good, "Look both ways before you cross the street."  Some not so good, "Believe in God or burn in Hell."  But, I don't think it is as absolute as you make it out to be.  
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Fuzzymike

Quote from: LMNO on May 24, 2007, 03:02:03 PM
Of course, you're talking about the way we percieve and interpret the whizzing bits in the Universe, not about the bits themselves.

To the best of my knowledge our perceptions cannot effect the bits at all. they are whether we are or not.
That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger... except polio.

LMNO

So we agree, then.  That's nice.