News:

FUCK YOU! MY UNCLE SAM DIED FROM NOT USING FACTS!

Main Menu

The Barstool Experiment

Started by LHX, June 13, 2006, 05:31:36 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Discord

nope i think is right, to some extend.
your parents give you the basics of how you think, its the basic brainwash.
Some ppl, around the age of 16, start to do, believe and think the exact opposite of the parents, which is exactly the same brainwash shit.
Others fall for the machines brainwash (and / or the parents) and then there are only a few ppl who break the chains and start thinking for themselves.
"Dont think for yourself, its just troublesome" seems to be the standard for humans.

AFK

to some extent, yes.  but this is vastly different then a sweeping generalization that ALL kids are being brainwashed by their parents.  Not all child rearing is brainwashing.  There is a distinction between brainwashing and guiding a child.  It is necessary to guide a child because he or she doesn't have the mental faculties to go out into the world and survive as an infant or toddler. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

LMNO

Well, to be honest, "brainwashing" is something other people do.

I don't "brainwash" people, I "show them the right way to think about things."






LMNO
-hopes you get the point.

Cramulus

 :lulz:
I SEE WHAT YUO DID THERE

AFK

I understand what you are saying.  But there is a distinction when it comes to children.  A parent has a biological imperative to ensure the child's survival.  Posting stuff on the internet or talking to adult friends about philosophy, etc. is a different ball game.  There's no way for a parent to be 100% hands off.  If someone has found a way to do that, you should start writing your book today, you'll be a billionaire. 

But I think that recognizing that is not the same thing as saying "all kids are being brainwashed" or "fed bullshit and lies."  Yes, some good intentions have the potential to become "brainwashing."  But, by that same token, bad intents can end up being learning opportunities for later in life.  If it were true that we were all being "fed bullshit and lies", etc., this place wouldn't exist.  Or are we the lucky few special ones who figured it out, got the golden ticket of enlightenment and EVERYONE else is screwed up.  Yeah, I believe there are a lot of aimless people out there.  I just don't buy into this gloomy gus/doom shit like fuzzymike is talking about. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Discord

Well it depends on how ur definition for "brainwash" and "guiding" is.

Guiding = helping them to show the way?
In that case its not possible to guide a kid, since its knowledge is insufficient (also depending what age this kid is)

brainwashing = forcing ur own opinion on someone else without physical force.
In that case every child is brainwashed either you want it or not. Kids tend to imitate their parents, not only their actions but also their way of thinking.

AFK

#261
Quote from: Discord on May 25, 2007, 05:09:04 PM
Well it depends on how ur definition for "brainwash" and "guiding" is.

Guiding = helping them to show the way?
In that case its not possible to guide a kid, since its knowledge is insufficient (also depending what age this kid is)

brainwashing = forcing ur own opinion on someone else without physical force.
In that case every child is brainwashed either you want it or not. Kids tend to imitate their parents, not only their actions but also their way of thinking.

You do realise that you contradicted yourself in this post right?  A child's knowledge is insufficient for guidance but perfectly sufficient to understand "brainwashing" communications. 

Further, can you provide evidence for the bolded assertion?

Furtherer, to recap.  Fuzzymike was talking about how infants are brainwashed from the age of 0-2 or 3.  This being based on his experience of not remembering anything before the age of 2.  How they are "fed bullshit and lies."  (Sorry, I'm gonna keep using this one until fuzzymike decides to address it). 

My assertion being, as you say, a child's knowledge is insufficient to contemplate such things.  Now, when I talk about guidance, at those early years you are really focusing on the basics.  How to eat, how to walk, how to talk, hot vs. cold, things a child needs in order to survive and be comfortable in day to day life.  Guidance isn't sitting a one year old and explaining "the way" to him.  Obviously, that's a ludicrous idea.  Yes, a parents love and affection, or lack thereof has an impact on a child.  But that is different, then instilling philosophies, values, "the way" in that child. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

LMNO

I don't think Fuzzy is coming back.

I also would like to point out that the bolded above is exactly what my point was.

Yes, "brainwashing" has a negative connotation, but when you break it down, isn't it simply using coercive techniques to get a person to think like you want them to?

And isn't that what a large part of child rearing is?

AFK

Quote from: LMNO on May 25, 2007, 06:28:33 PM
Yes, "brainwashing" has a negative connotation, but when you break it down, isn't it simply using coercive techniques to get a person to think like you want them to?

Yes.  I don't disagree with this at all.

QuoteAnd isn't that what a large part of child rearing is?

Sometimes yes sometimes no.  Depends on the parents and the situation.  There are some instances where you obviously want the child to think like you.  For example, I want my daughter to think as I do that jumping off of the roof of a house is probably hazardous to ones health.  So yes, if my daughter started to climb the house saying she was going to leap off of the roof, I would employ some coercive techniques to convincer her that was a bad idea.  But, this is for her safety. 

"Aha!" one might say, "But someone instilling [insert religion/philosophy] values in a child is thinking the same thing.  Keeping them safe from [insert religious/philosophical doom]."  Yes, this can be considered brainwashing of course. 

However, I maintain that outside of what I would call the "no-brainers" of physical safety and security, it isn't necessary to engage in coercive techniques to raise a child.  It is possible to keep a child safe in that manner, yet, still allow her the freedom to become her own person.  Will she learn things from me and my wife, as far as behavior, etc. of course.  She may decide she wants to hold her spoon the same way Daddy does when he eats his cereal.  She may decide that her Mother makes a silly face that she wants to make too.  Is that brainwashing?  Is that "coercive techniques"?  I don't think so. 

Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Jenne

Of course I coerce my kids to do shit.  How else would I get them to do things they should do or I need them to do when they don't wanna?  My kids are 169% asshats at the best of times, so a little arm-pulling is necessary.  And I'm shameless when it comes to that shit, believe me.  I'll take a dollar away from them (this technique works much better than shouting or hitting, because it gets them where it HURTS!) if they slip up consistently enough.  My definition of slipping up is very lenient, but still, kids do need to learn boundaries and limits.  I've seen adults who were never taught this--they are fuckfaces and how.

Discord

It doesnt matter what you call it, fact is, you ARE brainwashing / guiding ... ur children. as U pointed out, sometimes u do it on porpose, sometimes (prbly more often) u dont even notice it.
The 2 year old girl / boy does not hold the spoon like daddy because she THINKS it is right or because she likes daddy so much.  she/he does it because its the only person she can imitate properly.
Is that brainwashing?
I say yes, but it has no negative aspects, actually it is necessary.
U might want to use the term "guidance" here because it is necessary.
Still, the point im trying to make is:
Ppl shouldnt bother about if they are brainwashing their children, since they will do it.
Its just important to keep in mind that U are doing it, and teaching the child to think for their own, even if it is a pain in the ass.
HOW to achieve that, i dont know.

AFK

Ugh, I'll have to return to this after the weekend.  Needless to say I still think you're off but I don't have time to get into it right now.  For later then...
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Darth Cupcake

Jenne--I salute you for actually parenting.

Discord--please to be employing Y and O key. I might be the only one here who finds it difficult to take someone seriously when they are being addressed as "U," in which case I'll shush up. But ow. I am fairly certain you made good points, but I will get back to you on that.

RWHN--You bring up "for the child's safety" and "brainwashing." I completely agree with what you've said, but I just want to bring this up purely for the sake of bringing it up. In the case of many religious parents (such as my aunt and uncle, for example) they think that what they are indoctrinating into their children IS for that child's mortal safety, just as much as teaching them not to jump off the roof is, perhaps even more so. I personally think that's dumb. But how do you determine where the line is drawn? How do you determine when something is actually for the child's safety or if it's simply your own biases coming into play? What's "good" for a kid is so damn subjective.

Of course, I am a prick and will gladly pass judgment on religious people raising their kids as drones, even though I have no children of my own. But we all need our own little foibles, I suppose.
Be the trouble you want to see in the world.

LMNO


Payne

I stole Discords "y" and "o", so that I could write "Yo, Sup?" in chat rooms and IM's with greater efficiency,

Please return to your regularly scheduled entertainments,