The Barstool Experiment

[fast speed]

it seems to me, now, that the people who object the most to this story are the ones who have the least experience with reality.

[Cain]

HAHA, made you rant!

What's the point of opening yourself up to flights of intellectual whimsey if it ends up with you drawing firm conclusions about a world that doesn't match the one you're actually living in?

There were no firm conclusions in the story as i understood it. besides, i believe that all firm conclusions about any world or about anything does not match reality at all, and if it does it is purely by accident. All the things we see, touch or sense in any way might just our body making a suggestion to our brains that reacts in the manner it has been conditioned to react.

Or: fuckitidontknow   <-- The only honest words i've ever spoke. beat me with a chair and i suppose it hurts...

If thats the case however, why does it matter?  You cannot step outside your own senses in order to verify your own experiences, so endless navel-gazing speculation is a waste of time, because you will never come to a satisfactory conclusion, unless you accept that at some point along the line what you are sensing at least seems to have a basis in reality.

[Triple Zero]

indeed

as a thought-experiment, let's assume the opposite: at no point along the line what you are sensing has any basis in reality.

lol

if that would be reality, it's fucking useless and i want nothing to do with it

if it doesnt even have the simple decency to form a basis for my senses, i'm gonna give that so-called reality all the consideration it's due

[Kusa]

If thats the case however, why does it matter?  You cannot step outside your own senses in order to verify your own experiences, so endless navel-gazing speculation is a waste of time, because you will never come to a satisfactory conclusion, unless you accept that at some point along the line what you are sensing at least seems to have a basis in reality.

I don't believe in conclusions, i dont believe in meaning and i dont feel sad about it. :P
Besides, whatever i experience is reality, but what i make of it, and my preconceptions about everything is useless and incorrect. I have no idea of what is going on.
But i presume that i percieve. And, like, whatever... To answer your question: For me, it doesnt matter, the barstool might not exist in the way we percieve it, and i dont know if it is reality i see, or my concept of a barstool. So who cares if solid objects can cause destruction if energy is applied? is it not way cool that the solid object may not be solid, or maybe even dont exist, but still have the ability to rearrange limbs.

Aw fuck, i dont know what i'm saying anymore, or why this post ended up to be about me.
Ill post it anyway.

[Kusa]

indeed

as a thought-experiment, let's assume the opposite: at no point along the line what you are sensing has any basis in reality.

lol

if that would be reality, it's fucking useless and i want nothing to do with it

if it doesnt even have the simple decency to form a basis for my senses, i'm gonna give that so-called reality all the consideration it's due

The only way you can percieve the world is trought your concepts, and even if you create theese concept or they are just induction. what you choose to believe is your reality.
So yes it is fucking useless, but cool. SO JUST LET GO!

[Kusa]

Ok, i'm really sorry.

What i'm trying to say is that reality might be way bigger than our means of percieving it.

Now i'll shut the fuck up for a while.

[Chairman Risus]

Ok, i'm really sorry.

What i'm trying to say is that reality might be way bigger than our means of percieving it.

Now i'll shut the fuck up for a while.

So how does it matter?

[Kusa]

It doesnt, my previous post were insane ravings.

[Triple Zero]

What i'm trying to say is that reality might be way bigger than our means of percieving it.

of course it's bigger.

i KNOW it's bigger.

damn that's really big.

so big that all of the stuff you know about might just as well not even be really there in comparison

loving it!

you can sort of tell by the fact that every time you break out of prison you never reach the end Boss

[MonkeyMind]

i think all loose ends could be easily tiddied up by a barstool in its drunken stooper having this very same conversation with its shadow, then proceeds the oblivious fat man to sit on it to solidify the point.



stayed up till 3:30am reading this whole damn thread just to post that..

[LMNO]

What i'm trying to say is that reality might be way bigger than our means of percieving it.

Please to see the Black Iron Prison pamphlet, pages 15-16.

[Politician168023]

Hm. The barstool Experiment is a good one, but it's also somewhat limited. The discussion of the barstool seems to be based on only one sense, the sense of sight. Obviously the sense of sight is greatly effected by the way that the brain processes visual information. And IMO our 5 senses should not be called senses, but sensory receptors.

But before I stray from the point too much, the "intellectuals" in the conversation have got a point, but its a limited one. They forgot to incorporate their "sense" of touch into the theory.

Seeing is believing for some people, probably the person who smashes the barstool over their heads is one of those people.

There are many sensory receptors, but only one 'sense'.


And would someone please help me to make this funnier (lol) :-

Joe says, most of what we consider descriptive communication is made up of empty space, the distance  between a noun, its verb and the nearest adjacent adjective is comparitavely ambiguous; why that barstool over there shouldn't even be considered "tall" "wooden" "brown" "solid" "hard".

Billy responds by saying that as far as we can actually prove, that barstool might simply be a "ladder" or a
"work of art", for we are not actually seeing the barstool, we are seeing 'something' which has been described to us as a barstool in a particular language, by a particular propagandist, using particular relationships and 'facts' and 'distances' of his or her own choice or preconception.

Marshal arrives on the scene carrying a barstool and smashes them both over the head and says "I don't know who discovered language but it probably wasnt you".

I'm new here =) I don't want you to go easy on me, but please don't take me/life too seriously eh xD

[fast speed]

The discussion of the barstool seems to be based on only one sense, the sense of sight.

the barstool smells of wee and tastes like poo but is neither

[Politician168023]

hm.. you see my point or you missed it?

Are we talking about barstools in general, or "that barstool over there" ?

[LMNO]

Pol, the Barstool Experiment is (for me) meant to be a parable/metaphor, and not to be taken in an explicitly literal sense.

So, I take your point (with the exception that "sight" is the only sense being used.  Clearly, the argument used by the scientist is that of mass and cohesion, while the philosopher is the one questioning the hallucination of the world), but I suggest you take the "punchline" [/RWHN] as the feeling one gets when castles in the sky tumble.

To quote some asshat, "keep your head in the clouds and your feet on the ground."  Sometimes, it takes a barstool to help you find where your feet are.