What is The Machine™

[minuspace]

Kain: the generosity of your time is very much appreciated, it led me to the book "mIRE in the fINDS of men" an interesting read on previous history with some relevant paradoxes re: infiltration and the hall of mirrors.  Last chapter on Lenin is cool.

000: the fact that option a) was not considered, is provocative, and leads to b,c,&d, I gather.

(ostentation quote) If its the pattern your looking for:  anticipation, repetition, recognition

[Captain Utopia]

More than fifty years ago, the Morgan firm decided to infiltrate the Left-wing political movements of the United States. This was relatively easy to do since these groups were starved for funds and eager for a voice to reach the people. Wall Street supplied both. The purpose was not to destroy, dominate or take over but was really three-fold:

1) to keep informed about the Left-wing or liberal groups;

2) to provide them with a mouthpiece so they could blow off steam;

3) to have a final "veto" on their actions if they ever went radical. There was nothing really new about this decision, since other financiers had talked about it and even attempted it earlier.

The best example of the alliance of Wall Street and Left-wing publication was "The New Republic" a magazine founded in 1914 by Willard Straight using Payne Whitney money. The original purpose for establishing the paper was to provide an outlet for the progressive Left and to guide it in an Anglophile direction.

Reminds me of The Daily Show.  I don't think it's likely, and I've never heard of such an instance, that someone on the right has been influenced by any of its content.  I mean, yes, each snappy montage showing lazy establishment hypocrisy feels like a minor victory - it's a warm and comforting place to be.  But if no-one outside its target audience is affected by it, and if the effect is to turn liberal outrage into laughter, then whose goals is it contributing to?

[minuspace]

<cmd: file -c -M magic> is this why the quick anachronous fox jumped over the fence?

[Triple Zero]

Kain: the generosity of your time is very much appreciated

IAWTC, interesting reads. Thanks, Cain.

000: the fact that option a) was not considered, is provocative, and leads to b,c,&d, I gather.

uhh, I looked back five pages and I can't find what you are replying to? If it matters, please to quote, otherwise, never mind it :-P

<cmd: file -c -M magic> is this why the quick anachronous fox jumped over the fence?

what? you lost me and I can't be arsed to man file.

Reminds me of The Daily Show.  I don't think it's likely, and I've never heard of such an instance, that someone on the right has been influenced by any of its content.  I mean, yes, each snappy montage showing lazy establishment hypocrisy feels like a minor victory - it's a warm and comforting place to be.  But if no-one outside its target audience is affected by it, and if the effect is to turn liberal outrage into laughter, then whose goals is it contributing to?

Hm, interesting thought.

I don't watch the Daily Show that often (just when it's linked here). It's great comedy, but your comment made me wonder, do/did they ever break something really surprising? Or do they comedy-wrap stuff that anybody could grep from the (better) news outlets?

On the other hand, there was this study that the Daily Show was a better source for quality news than most actual news programs, IIRC? Which means, even if they just comedy-wrap and regurgitate things people could find via the (better/indie/alt) news sources, they are providing a good service, informing the people that don't make the effort? Even if it's preaching to the choir?

[Captain Utopia]

I don't watch the Daily Show that often (just when it's linked here). It's great comedy, but your comment made me wonder, do/did they ever break something really surprising? Or do they comedy-wrap stuff that anybody could grep from the (better) news outlets?

I think they have, although no ready example springs to mind.  A weak example would be the hypocrisy montage, there's no-one better at finding examples of some pol contradicting themselves.  Or they'll highlight an angle which the mainstream media has ignored up until that point, which subsequently gets more attention.  If you're asking whether they add value to the quality of the news, then yes - I'd say they do.

On the other hand, there was this study that the Daily Show was a better source for quality news than most actual news programs, IIRC? Which means, even if they just comedy-wrap and regurgitate things people could find via the (better/indie/alt) news sources, they are providing a good service, informing the people that don't make the effort? Even if it's preaching to the choir?

The liberal choir is already weighted heavily on the theory side of the theory vs. action scales.  Passive and Informed, keeps losing ground to Angry and Uninformed.  I have no idea what the answer is.

[Cain]

Angry and Informed.

[Captain Utopia]

?

Anger trumps rationality though - how do you avoid that?

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

It's like stress. There's a sweet spot where it positively effects your performance at maximum levels.

Any more stress and it has a negative impact. Any less and you're running below optimum.

[minuspace]

the machine is a system that pretends to help you while it fucks you.
why?  because people are not things, or "parts" of the whole.
we have seen ourselves in many ways, but as mechanical parts is not sufficient.
Sure, it may be efficient in streamlining the workflow for a project.
But what is the project?
Why is the project?
To do something without having asked these questions is irresponsible, and
we can leave it at that.

what is important: how is it so?

what does it mean for something to be important?
How can something be important?
Is there a first among equals?
Yes.
(DY:  hint, its not a thing...)

[Captain Utopia]

what is important: how is it so?

what does it mean for something to be important?
How can something be important?
Is there a first among equals?
Yes.
(DY:  hint, its not a thing...)

PD.com is not your personal classroom and I am not your student, gazing up at you with awe and admiration as you waffle on enigmatically, barely able to contain my excitement to start on the homework you have set today - to find meaning in your zen-wannabe stream-of-consciousness not-saying-anything question style of communication.

[Jasper]

But Captain, can you really say there is a right?

*pause to look thoughtful*

For that matter, is there a left?

[minuspace]

did you find you're level yet?
(going forward I always look back,
If time were a sideral cone 

[Jasper]

On another tangent, I had a thought. 

The machine.  It's a mechanics metaphor, and I notice that all mechanics boil down to three components.   Every machine has a goes inna, a goes outta, and the thing inna middle.  How does this look with regard to The Machine?

It looks like the goes inna is humans, and the goes outta is...what we have lying around in the noosphere.  What's the thing inna middle?

[minuspace]

the arrow of time 

[minuspace]

yes it has mechanics of time wrapping-up...