Illuminatus! Trilogy

[Cain]

As apposed to... the rule of Bush's/Obama's military tribunals?

There's no difference.  Ever heard of what they did to "criminals" (meaning people who disagreed with the warlords) in Somalia?  Its not pretty reading.  You think waterboarding is bad, wait until you're forced to kill members of your own family because of the "shame" they may have bought on you for fraternizing with another warlord's people.  Welcome to anarchy.

[Hit the Road Jack]

As apposed to... the rule of Bush's/Obama's military tribunals?

There's no difference.  Ever heard of what they did to "criminals" (meaning people who disagreed with the warlords) in Somalia?  Its not pretty reading.  You think waterboarding is bad, wait until you're forced to kill members of your own family because of the "shame" they may have bought on you for fraternizing with another warlord's people.  Welcome to anarchy.

See my previous post.

[Cain]

Anarchism is Utopianism, pure and simple.  The idea that repression is based purely around the state, especially in an age when so many sub-state actors are giving states a run for their money in vindictive and irrational violence (Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah ringing any bells), is simply ignoring facts. As long as there a presumption that there is some underlying human harmony that would exist (if it wasn't for the state ruining it) is present in Anarchism, its simply impossible to take seriously.

Except perhaps by those like Rudolf Rocker, who actually seem to value freedom and understand that anarchism best serves as an antithesis to authoritarianism, acting within that relationship to preserve individualism.  Thats about the only defensible position I have seen on anarchism ever and its pretty divorced from most of the theory.

[Lies]

Ever see that movie, "The Anarchist cookbook"?
I don't wanna ruin the ending for those that haven't seen it, but, yeah, that's what happens.
It's back to "survival of the fittest" or "survival of whoever can backstab the most without getting caught".

[Cain]

Nothing would make me happier than for anarchy to be a workable system.  Seriously, it would be great if it could be done, but I just cannot see it happening, not without some sort of psychological evolution which would mean humans as we currently understand them are not involved. I presume that was what HTRJ meant by transhumanism, though as with most branches of Anarchism you can never be totally sure what someone means until they clarify themselves.

[Hit the Road Jack]

Anarchism is Utopianism, pure and simple.  The idea that repression is based purely around the state, especially in an age when so many sub-state actors are giving states a run for their money in vindictive and irrational violence (Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah ringing any bells), is simply ignoring facts.

Well looky here now, I don't know why you're accusing me of that stance, as I never said anything so sheepplish.

"Verily, verily I say unto you, not all the Sinister Ministers of the Bavarian Illuminati, working together in multitudes, could so entwine the land with tribulation as have yer baseless warnings.

- Lord Omar"

Oh, and both Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda were created and armed by Mossad and the CIA. Those two later agencies were in turn created and armed by the Pentagon military industrial complex. You know, destructive order at work.

Do I get sent to the brig for quoting the Principia? : D

To me, to say that all anarchy implies to think of the state in magical faery Marxist terms, is as silly as to to think that of the state.

As long as there a presumption that there is some underlying human harmony that would exist (if it wasn't for the state ruining it) is present in Anarchism, its simply impossible to take seriously.

We already live in anarchy.

Except perhaps by those like Rudolf Rocker, who actually seem to value freedom and understand that anarchism best serves as an antithesis to authoritarianism, acting within that relationship to preserve individualism.  Thats about the only defensible position I have seen on anarchism ever and its pretty divorced from most of the theory.

Not everybody is as stupid as the clueless kid wearing the Che T-shirt. Others have more longsighted vision than that.

[Hit the Road Jack]

Ever see that movie, "The Anarchist cookbook"?
I don't wanna ruin the ending for those that haven't seen it, but, yeah, that's what happens.
It's back to "survival of the fittest" or "survival of whoever can backstab the most without getting caught".

I give the film a 6/half outa' ten. Good try though.

[Hit the Road Jack]

Nothing would make me happier than for anarchy to be a workable system.  Seriously, it would be great if it could be done, but I just cannot see it happening, not without some sort of psychological evolution which would mean humans as we currently understand them are not involved. I presume that was what HTRJ meant by transhumanism, though as with most branches of Anarchism you can never be totally sure what someone means until they clarify themselves.

Transhumanism is a nice dream.

www.kurzweilai.net

Anyway, the sexual revolution came "outa' the blue" too, you know. wilhelm Reich, and all that?

[LMNO]

Yes, the sexual revolution emerged with the confluence of cheap birth control, and inhibition-supressing drugs.

And then, as a partial result of that, we get the AIDS epidemic, and the fundamentalist backlash.


And why do you think we are currently living in Anarchy?  As I see it, anarchy is that tenuous state between revolution and authoritarianism, where the Idealists still think everyone will be nice to each other now that the State is gone, right before the guy with the biggest gun starts making rules & forcing his will on the others.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Call me a treehugger if you like but I look forward to a psychological (dare I say spiritual) quantum leap, amongst the monkeys on this planet. I'm not living under any illusions that this is coming anytime soon but I still like to dream.

As a 'glass is half full' type of guy I tend to focus on small instances of evidence regarding general trend. As a realist I have to accept that at this rate it'll be a while yet but, as HtRJ points out - sometimes things like this just happen- by surprise. Look at the internet - I can now talk about this kinda shit with thousands of other people whom I'd never bee able to before. Opportunities arrive out of the blue. Hope springs eternal.

[DJRubberducky]

http://somethingpositive.net/sp12102002.shtml

[Cain]

I can never remember the URL for that.

[Hit the Road Jack]

http://somethingpositive.net/sp12102002.shtml

Right, because if it wasn't for the British police force (I'm a Brit, so...) people would, like, be commiting crimes. Oh wait...

[Triple Zero]

we couldn't really steal that cartoon for one of our pamphlets now could we?

[Cain]

Right, because if it wasn't for the British police force (I'm a Brit, so...) people would, like, be commiting crimes. Oh wait...

Well, I dunno about you, but I was deterred as fuck from being Brazilian looking after the Stockwell shooting....