LDD Sermon 7

[P3nT4gR4m]

And finally I ask myself, what would anything actually do?  Is it really going to change the world?  Is making someone's day a little more interesting going to save our civilization?  I agree that life as we know it is going to shit, but as already stated I'm waiting for that day so I finally have a good excuse to kill myself.   From where I stand the only two options are to passively stand by or try to help it along as much as I can.  I can't imagine life ever being good except in a small, personal way, and I'm not sure how much I should worry about other's small, personal spheres. 

I get a lot of what you're saying. I just 'gave up' the good fight and settled down into an easygoing, bullshit kinda average life. The way I figure is if I can make it more amusing by helping someone else to see how ridiculous it all is then I'm making a small contribution and being happy at the same time. If that sounds like hippy bullshit then it's prolly cos it is but I guess that's just the kinda punk I am.

[Dr. Cow Ass]

I haven't got a good goddamned excuse.  Now that I can leave my house I should be.  But I'm not. 

I'll just say that part of the problem is we are all widely separated, isolated except for the connection of the internet.  And humans are social creatures, much as we proclaim to love privacy and independence.  We are much more likely to do something if there's at least one other accomplice.  Many of us do not have accomplices.  Many of us are shy about recruiting accomplices. 

I'm really goddamned lazy, is what it boils down to.  And I'm not really sure just what effort would reward me with.  I could rant, I suppose, but we've all seen what that does:  jack shit.  I could put up posters, and I have, and they've all been torn down within a day.  I know nothing about making the internet prettier.  I know no one who would gleefully go down with me in a blaze of subversion.

And finally I ask myself, what would anything actually do?  Is it really going to change the world?  Is making someone's day a little more interesting going to save our civilization?  I agree that life as we know it is going to shit, but as already stated I'm waiting for that day so I finally have a good excuse to kill myself.   From where I stand the only two options are to passively stand by or try to help it along as much as I can.  I can't imagine life ever being good except in a small, personal way, and I'm not sure how much I should worry about other's small, personal spheres. 


That probably wasn't very coherent but that's my story.

I respect your opinion, but fuck, you're a real downer.

Plus, you guys are forgetting that not everyone is a Black Iron Prison nut. There's discordians, wheather they consider themselves discordian or not, that just wanna laugh at that world and get laughed at. They don't care about world issues and social methology. If you saw them and told them to piss off with some cynical remark about the machine or whatever, do you know what they'll do? They'll laugh at you and throw a milkshake at your car. Their is no problem to them, and if there is the best thing they think they can do is laugh at it.  Are they part of the problem, or are they a small part of the solution?

Secondly, I propose one of the mods make a sticky thread called "The Discordian Arsenal" or something similar so when new recruits come to the forums asking "What can I do?" you can point them to a thread that'll give them some ideas. You could also make a similar sticky that list all of the projects members are currently working on, and links to their website or blog.

I really don't know which type of discordian I am, but I do know that anyone who tells me how to be a discordian, is not a discordian at all.

[East Coast Hustle]

can't argue with that.

good idea about the thread too. I'll get on that tomorrow morning.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Plus, you guys are forgetting that not everyone is a Black Iron Prison nut. There's discordians, wheather they consider themselves discordian or not, that just wanna laugh at that world and get laughed at. They don't care about world issues and social methology. If you saw them and told them to piss off with some cynical remark about the machine or whatever, do you know what they'll do? They'll laugh at you and throw a milkshake at your car. Their is no problem to them, and if there is the best thing they think they can do is laugh at it.  Are they part of the problem, or are they a small part of the solution?

I think it may be the difference between optimist and pessimist. I know I like to look for a positive spin on most things that people find bad. I usually can to. Not always but usually. Not taking the whole human race very seriously helps me a bit.

[Thurnez Isa]

You could also make a similar sticky that list all of the projects members are currently working on, and links to their website or blog.

theres links to ppls blogs usually in their profile
i dont think anyone really ever looks though

as with members projects.. I agree the whole thing can be a bit more "organized"

[Triple Zero]

aaaaand here is my take on this thread (a bunch of random collated replies written while reading the past four pages)

well, for me it's like this. i just take it at my own pace. i'm not at all sure the ways ECH Cain MGD and Roger are going are the right way. for me.
maybe i could in fact just plunge in, wreak havoc, YEAH and DO THIS SHIT. but only when i'm convinced that it is the right thing to do. maybe i'm getting there slowly, but there are no shortcuts.
in fact, i don't quite see what you're complaining about. i have done what i could for the cause i believe in. there are no if's. but IF you want more, you have to wait. i am not that quick.

now for some specific things you wrote ..

>  Not a single person has come to me talking about
>  doing a huge media covered jake, or about my rant
>  on subversion.  They come asking for my help on
>  their projects, but no-one has taken an interest in
>  mine.

did you actually directly ask anyone?
cause all i ever read about your projects was things like "i've got a few projects running now ..." all sounding either like very secretive stuff or very local jakes.
if you wanted help, you should have asked. and (i'm sure you know this from whatever strategy lessons) generally asking the open air on a forum isn't asking. approach people directly if you want a "yes" or "no" instead of a "hmhm yep uhuh someone should".
i never asked for two reasons.

- first, you seemed secretive and so i had no clue what actually you were doing.
- second, you have always seemed to make a big point of showing that you don't need any help with anything at all. at least, that's how you seem to me.

if anything, the thing you are ranting against, is more of a communication problem than anything else. or just a big dissapointment in human nature. but that's normal. everybody gets that. no group is different. no large group anyway. not on a forum. not like this.
and damn, i would figure anyone like you would actually know this.
i have managed a few medium-sized groups of (relatively free-thinking) people. put them on a mailinglist. when you want something done, you don't post a message "we need to get X done. anybody got time to do it?". no. you call every single one of them on their cell phones and ask if they got time and if not, why.
maybe the "broadcast question" approach works for military? corporate work? i dunno, i have no experience with that. but it sure as hell doesn't work for people who have relatively little up with the concept of authority.

apart from that. i'm no religious zealot here either. i read your rants and think "fuck yeah", but that doesn't mean i go storming off to the nearest public toilet to sabotage it or whatever just because i read something that got me enthousiastic. because it won't last.
i find the hardest thing about discordianism is not grasping the concept, but actually explaining it clearly to other people. when they ask the simplest questions like "why?". i can put up posters, leave flyers around (i have done so many times), but if anybody catches me and asks, interested, "hey 000 what is this about, anyway", i'll be dumbfounded. so much easier to just quote the law of 5s, than to explain why the world is fubar. yes i read the essays and i think "hell yea", but preaching it to the world -- i've been there. at a certain moment somebody who actually knows history (cause i dont) steps up and contradicts a huge part of your story and there you are, looking stoopid. now that might not happen to you, but i know my limitations (:time).

> re: Open Source Chaos.

i read it. twice. i have no idea what to do with it. also forgot most of it already. i might do something with it, if you could all explain it to me. we could go through it bit by bit. something best done in a bar face to face, not over long-distance media. (hey if you ever happen to find yourself in NL ... )

> But forums are good for communication, and bad
> for expressing initial ideas.  I think, anyway.
> Unless its been pre-scripted, like with Plato.

oooohhh.. now THAT's an idea i've been thinking of something like that. if one could build a tool that is able to make preset timed postings (under different logins) to fora, blogs etc, would it be worth it? a pre-scripted conversation between two or more users could be written in a short time, spread out over a week or so, posted to a number of different fora. my time is very costly at the moment, but would it be worth investigating the possibility to automate this?

[LMNO]

if one could build a tool that is able to make preset timed postings (under different logins) to fora, blogs etc, would it be worth it? a pre-scripted conversation between two or more users could be written in a short time, spread out over a week or so, posted to a number of different fora. my time is very costly at the moment, but would it be worth investigating the possibility to automate this?

This is an extremely cool idea.

[Cain]

I should point out I was also pissed off about several other things yesterday.

[LMNO]

I should point out I was also pissed off about several other things yesterday.

Yeah, sorry about that thing I did to your mother.  A bit of turpentine should get that off.

[Cain]