Rev Roger, Sermon #46: The Afterword

[Jenne]

...and..."poopy-head"? 

[East Coast Hustle]

Was the above talking to me?  Cuz I rather doubt I'm in a clique here...   I just have a nasty habit of standing up for those who stand up for me and my ilk.  And I did ask DCA to spelunk before making snap judgments.

it was just a general observation.

[Jenne]

Ah...

[P3nT4gR4m]

2) regardless of one's personal perspective on Roger's writing (I enjoy it quite a bit, but I don't expect everyone else to), it seems a bit strange that when someone with a differing opinion comes along, we get all clique-ish and close ranks and tell them how obviously wrong they must be. That's not practicing what you preach. Differences of opinion force us to work through why we think the things we do, which is good mental health. Homogenous Discordianism is an oxymoron, and nothing I want any part of.

Glad you called it. I'm still the new guy here (always will be) and if I'd pointed it out I'd have gotten flamed then had to go have a little bitchy weep to myself. It's weird how heroes are born in these chat forums. I've been the guy who can say absolutely anything and be backed up, V's the noob who came up with a perfectly valid point and got shot down in shit. I've been the noob too, although anyone who thinks they can verbally rape me will usly come out of it feeling pretty cheap and used. I'm impartial here on account of noobness. So far I'd say Rog has said some cool shit and some dumb shit and so has cow ass. Neither of them are heroes or assholes IMO. Just words on a screen who's egos are their own fucking business.

Its harder to make sense of things from the inside.

Agreed, but once you made sense of it there's SFA you can do from out there. Time to crawl back into the shit and start dishing out the swimming lessons.

[Cain]

The first quote wasn't me.  Though I do agree with with it, which is why I worded my response as I did, in a non-defensive way.

And yes, there is little you can do from the outside, but who said Roger was going to stay there forever?  God knows I need to hit the road again soon and get all this shit out of my head for a while.  Doesnt mean I intend to live on the road forever either.

[P3nT4gR4m]

The first quote wasn't me.  Though I do agree with with it, which is why I worded my response as I did, in a non-defensive way.

And yes, there is little you can do from the outside, but who said Roger was going to stay there forever?  God knows I need to hit the road again soon and get all this shit out of my head for a while.  Doesnt mean I intend to live on the road forever either.

soz about the quote thing - was ECH - no idea wtf happened. I was just killing 2 birds with one post. I know how you feel. I like getting away from it all as often as poss too. I vacation as far away from 'civilisation' as I can get for this reason and also because the highlands of scotland and largely untouched by the inverse midas effect of humanity - you know how everything those primates touch turns to shit?

I'm happiest when the roads turn to dirt tracks, theres no fucking fences and warning signs next to teh dangerous shit. Places where you can look to the horizon in all four directions and see nothing but untainted country. Where I think I differ from most of you guys is that I love coming back too. I need to get away to find my centre (or whatever bullshit new age metaphor passes) but I like the monkey enclosure too. It appeals to my very fucked up sense of humour.

[Cain]

No probs with the quote.  Just wanted to make sure credit was given where it was due.

I havent actually been up into the Highlands much.  Seen some of it, BBC docs and stuff, but really my place is the jungle.  I need heat.  And danger that doesn't come directly from the climate.

[East Coast Hustle]

amen to that.

[Triple Zero]

I agree with ECHs 2nd and 3rd point on the last page (the 1st point about being an alt or not, i can't know). And even though mr Cowass did it in a pretty shitty way (well, you did, mr Cowass), he did also raise some questions i was wondering about myself when reading that sermon. Especially on the "running away" versus "escaping" versus "leaving it all behind" versus "jailbreak" versus "getting it" versus "not getting it" areas.
On the one hand, i say, wow it really takes some guts to just pack up and leave (though america being the way it is these days probably helps). On the other hand i think, but what are you going to pay your bills with now? (just interested). On yet another hand i wonder if i'll ever get to pack up and leave myself, and then i wonder if that wouldn't just be escapism. And then i wonder if that would be a bad thing or not.

well, Roger, you gotta do what you want to do, and no matter the reasons or the motives, i wish you best of luck. cause either way, it doesn't sound like a half bad plan.

[P3nT4gR4m]

No probs with the quote.  Just wanted to make sure credit was given where it was due.

I havent actually been up into the Highlands much.  Seen some of it, BBC docs and stuff, but really my place is the jungle.  I need heat.  And danger that doesn't come directly from the climate.

We do a great range of climates to suit all tastes. Anything from vaguely warm and pissing rain to fucking freezing and pissing rain. You learn to love the rain and wind up north cos it keeps those fucking midges away. (for non uk people - try to imagine a miniature, stealth mosquito flying at you with 10,000 of his mates)

[Cain]

Of course, in America, its easier to escape into the wilderness.  In Europe, the only place to escape may be into the cities (more on this line of thought later....)

[Cain]

No probs with the quote.  Just wanted to make sure credit was given where it was due.

I havent actually been up into the Highlands much.  Seen some of it, BBC docs and stuff, but really my place is the jungle.  I need heat.  And danger that doesn't come directly from the climate.

We do a great range of climates to suit all tastes. Anything from vaguely warm and pissing rain to fucking freezing and pissing rain. You learn to love the rain and wind up north cos it keeps those fucking midges away. (for non uk people - try to imagine a miniature, stealth mosquito flying at you with 10,000 of his mates)

Rumour has it the Scottish have 10,000 phrases for rain - most of them unfit for polite company....

[Jenne]

I agree with ECHs 2nd and 3rd point on the last page (the 1st point about being an alt or not, i can't know). And even though mr Cowass did it in a pretty shitty way (well, you did, mr Cowass), he did also raise some questions i was wondering about myself when reading that sermon. Especially on the "running away" versus "escaping" versus "leaving it all behind" versus "jailbreak" versus "getting it" versus "not getting it" areas.
On the one hand, i say, wow it really takes some guts to just pack up and leave (though america being the way it is these days probably helps). On the other hand i think, but what are you going to pay your bills with now? (just interested). On yet another hand i wonder if i'll ever get to pack up and leave myself, and then i wonder if that wouldn't just be escapism. And then i wonder if that would be a bad thing or not.

well, Roger, you gotta do what you want to do, and no matter the reasons or the motives, i wish you best of luck. cause either way, it doesn't sound like a half bad plan.

Ok, I'm not picking on you 000, but where in Rog's letter (I just read it again) did he advocate not paying bills?  He said to free yourself...that could mean any  manner of things.  He didn't sound like he was running away from something but rather TO something...there's a difference.

And he never said he wasn't going to "get back to it all" at some point...I didn't get anything so very permanent from his letter.  It was more "of the moment" than that for me.  And maybe my foreknowledge of these trips of his kept me from thinking this, that he was saying cutting and running is better than staying and fighting.

In fact, he was encouraging you all not to cut and run but instead just think and do for yourselves, as you seek to free yourselves of the chains that bind you.  That's all I read into that.  And that's ever been TGRR's message since I've known him.

*shrug*

[LMNO]

Ok, I'll try to do both sides here...

First Angle:  Consider the US Gvt as a corporation... Let's say Pepsi.  All your life, you have been raise drinking Pepsi.   You spend all your money buying Pepsi products.  You even buy stock in the company.

Then one day, you figure out that Pepsi products are not good for your health, the environment, and the board of directors are engaged in nafarious business practices.  What do you do?

Easy-- you sell your stock, and you refuse to buy Pepsi anymore.  That, in essence, is what a person does when they Ex-patriate.  They no longer pay taxes, they no longer support the Gvt, and they leave.


Second Angle: The US Gvt has its slimy tentacles in every corner of the globe.  There is no escaping.  Not to mention, Gvt in general will tend to fuck over the individual.  There's nowhere to go to get away from it.  What do you do?

For all it's downsides, the US Gvt has a fairly good system for enacting change.  Sure, it's not that fast, and it's corrupt as hell, but you have a slightly better chance of getting things done that in, say, Ecuador.  So stay, and make all the changes you can.


How's that?

[P3nT4gR4m]

Of course, in America, its easier to escape into the wilderness.  In Europe, the only place to escape may be into the cities (more on this line of thought later....)

I'm about 35 mins by road and 25 water away from 'can't see the cars' . I'm roughly 2 hours away from 'nearest' pub is 20miles that way'. Those places get scary when you're down to your last couple of cans and a 20mile paddle is a whole day trip.