Letting People Fend for Themselves

[LHX]

if youre in a bad enough situation, all new ideas are good just by virtue of being new

[Triple Zero]

i didnt really want to go into what RAW said or did not say, cause graud being neophile or not, doesn't really matter, what happened in the I3 were just RAWs fantasies, not all of them meant as parables for what is right or not.
so (IMO) using a RAW story as an example context to make a point, ok. saying "remember RAW said this and this", badwrong.
still you make a good point, new ideas are not necessarily good ones. take for example that "creating life" documentary Cain posted -- snip which i will write about in the appropriate thread --

to get back:

what do WE think?

people-badness: nature or nurture?

another age-old question, probably.

raises the more important question: does a nature-based "neophile/neophobe" distinction actually exist? how does this hold from a evolutionary perspective? though it doesn't really need to be heriditary to be part of one's nature: take for a similar example, homosexuality. evolutionary a strange phenomenon, but definitely part of one's nature.

[LMNO]

Does it actually exist?  no.  It's a good metaphor though.


And, for the record, I wasn't appealing to authority by referencing RAW.  I was pointing to a common parable that we probably would all know; that being that the one about the status quo being disrupted by a new idea.  In this case, the status quo was a Discordian "paradise", and the new ideas were Order and Sin.


Yes, it is a re-telling of the Garden of Eden myth.

[Triple Zero]

Does it actually exist?  no.  It's a good metaphor though.

well, that depends. the neophobe metaphor suggests it is something inherent in someone's nature, but it could also be part of someone's upbringing.

if it's nature i would not suggest trying to "decondition" such people, if it's nurture then they need a good kick in the mind.

[LMNO]

Since we have yet to find a "Neophobe Gene", occams razor suggests it's nurture.

[Triple Zero]

but since we also have yet to find a "gay gene" would homosexuality be nurture as well then?

[LHX]

but since we also have yet to find a "gay gene" would homosexuality be nurture as well then?

if i was forced to answer definitively, i put my money on yes

[LMNO]

"Maybe/Both" is more accurate.

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/100/105486.htm

"Since sexual orientation is such a complex trait, we're never going to find any one gene that determines whether someone is gay or not," says Mustanski. "It's going to be a combination of various genes acting together as well as possibly interacting with environmental influences."

[Triple Zero]

ok but in that case, is it a good thing/ethical/right to force neophobe people to deal with novel situations, as is the basis of any good Mindfuck?

edit: this seems to boil down to the question if it's right to force one's will on someone. (also please mind that i'm playing a littlebit advocate for the devil here)

[LMNO]

Again, there is no evidence that neophobia is genetic.

So, yes.  Also, because it's fun for the rest of us.



I hypothesize that neophobia/phelia is caused in Circuit 1 imprinting (if the circuit model is accurate).

[LHX]

is there reason to believe neophobia is self destructive?

i think so


homosexuality is a different story

it has been suggested that we are all part-gay in some aspect

but a homosexual lifestyle is a different story and may be a symptom of living in a society presided over by neophobes



what does a neophobe do when his old garden is no longer fertile?

this system we live in drives people to do all sorts of strange things (especially when there is laws prohibiting movement for no apparent reason)

[LMNO]

neophobia= self-destructive?

to an extreme, perhaps.  But it could also be considered self-preservation.  Do what you know works, and you'll probably live longer.

Neophelia can get you into all sorts of trouble, from poisoning yourself to getting attacked by wild beasts.


As the broker record states, you need balance.

[LHX]

variety

new is part of a well balanced diet



maybe there needs to be a standard (neophobe) approach to engaging in new experiences

rather a neophobe approach to exhausting the same resources you were born with

[LMNO]

The approach to get a Neophobe to do something new is to appeal to authority, and to convince said neophobe that people he/she respects have done it many times before.

That is, convince them that it's not really all that new.

[LHX]

somebody is thinking