Aneristic Strife

[LHX]

he did this on a full moon:



but seriously - the moon is significant because it is there
and it can represent different things to different people at different times


gravitational interactions?
the implications of getting varying amounts of light at night?
the fact that the same side of it is always facing us?
the fact that it is a body that is within travelling distance?

these are all things worth considering

[Cain]

If our brains were as massive as the ocean

Speak for yourself.

Cain,
evil genius.

[LMNO]

Granted the majority of this effect may be projected but it's a projection that works.

Change that to "all", and I think we might have an agreement.

[AFK]

yeah, I think any affect the moon may have on a person, personality or otherwise, is largely in their head.  And I would submit it is because they've bought into a myth of lunacy or some such thing.  I mean, it's the same thing as thinking a 4-leaf clover is lucky or that a black cat crossing your path is going to royally fuck up your day.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Granted the majority of this effect may be projected but it's a projection that works.

Change that to "all", and I think we might have an agreement.

Fair enough the whole thing is projected. Changes no part of my argument. Do I need to beat you over the head with the 'S'-word twice in one day?

[LMNO]

Yeah, it does.


YOU = "The full moon acts on humans physically which makes them crazy."

US = "The full moon as observed by humans is interpreted in a certain way to have a psychosomatic (i.e. 'imagined') effect on some of them."


Not the same thing.  In the first case, we can't control it, unless we have an anti-gravity device.  In the second, we can easily control it, because it's in our heads.

[LHX]

there is no victim ANYWHERE




these arent real tears

[Triple Zero]

the thing is, if it's purely projected it's not gravity.

that's what we were saying all along and i think we pretty much were in agreement all along. so after that's done, i'd like to ask still:

- what's the "S-word"?

- you sound as you actually tried out the hole with water thing. what did you do exactly? and how a big a hole? (out of curiosity) how did it work out?

- and perhaps the thing we were actually bickering about: projection (or what ever you want to call it) how much attention should you pay to it? and is it fair to deliberately blur the line (or better, to blur the grey area that's there already even further) between projection and objective/semiquasi-objecquektive/peer-reviewed reality?

edit: i just came back from a weekend away, and only reloaded this page -- i see there's a thread about the moon already so maybe this post is redundant.

[Starship, take me]

                m₁ m₂
F_g = G --------------
                    r²



The chair I'm sitting on exerts a greater gravitational force on me than the moon.

Just sayin'

[LMNO]

Thanks, Starship.  I knew there must be someone here who knew the math.

[B_M_W]

Okay, I'll humor you for a sec. Say that Luna does actually exert some "gravitational" force upon us that we can sense.

Now go back to your arguement that the effect of the moon is strongest when it is "full".

See where Im going with this?

You see, the tides aren't highest at full or new moon. The oceantides are fullest at first and last quarter, when the differential gravitation between moon and sun cause higher tidal force. Even then, this has nothing to do with the amount of light hitting the moon, and everything to do with the position of the moon in relationship to the much larger mass of the Earth, and the much, MUCH larger mass of the sun.

So, why exactly do you feel the most at Full moon again? Why not at new moon? The gravitational effect is pretty much the same.

Now, if we ignore the differential tidal force, what is happening during the phases of the moon? As Luna revolves around the Earth in a monthly cycle, one face always points in because one lunar day is equal to one lunar month, called syncronomous rotation. We see differential amounts of "moonlight" because different amounts of light is reflected that we can see. This is key, that one realizes that there is no more or less light striking the moon at any time of the month (outside of a lunar eclipse), the only difference is the amount we see here on earth. And the amount of light we see, while it does deal with the relative positions of Earth moon and sun, has nothing to do with gravitation or tidal force.


Tell me, what does a new moon feel like to you? It must be overwhelming, having the mass of the moon positioned above you all day long... 

[B_M_W]

Um.....Im just gonna pretend I didn't hear that...

Just consider it psychosomatic, BMW.  That should work for you.

Hey, if we wanted to talk about the effect of moolight upon biological cycles, then theres a whole lot of evidence for that. Not really any in humans, but take certain jellyfish, for example, which congregate and breed on nights of a certain phase of the moon, because they are biologically programmed to react to a certain low light intensity which was precluded by a number of nights of increasing or decreasing amounts of light intensity.

THAT I can stomach.

This stuff about tidal effect is completly bogus though. And the oceans rise because they are not only fluid (have no fixed shape) but the molecules act as a whole on the large scale.

Starship's got the right idea.

[LMNO]

Okay, I'll humor you for a sec. Say that Luna does actually exert some "gravitational" force upon us that we can sense.

Now go back to your arguement that the effect of the moon is strongest when it is "full".

See where Im going with this?

You see, the tides aren't highest at full or new moon. The oceantides are fullest at first and last quarter, when the differential gravitation between moon and sun cause higher tidal force. Even then, this has nothing to do with the amount of light hitting the moon, and everything to do with the position of the moon in relationship to the much larger mass of the Earth, and the much, MUCH larger mass of the sun.

So, why exactly do you feel the most at Full moon again? Why not at new moon? The gravitational effect is pretty much the same.

Now, if we ignore the differential tidal force, what is happening during the phases of the moon? As Luna revolves around the Earth in a monthly cycle, one face always points in because one lunar day is equal to one lunar month, called syncronomous rotation. We see differential amounts of "moonlight" because different amounts of light is reflected that we can see. This is key, that one realizes that there is no more or less light striking the moon at any time of the month (outside of a lunar eclipse), the only difference is the amount we see here on earth. And the amount of light we see, while it does deal with the relative positions of Earth moon and sun, has nothing to do with gravitation or tidal force.


Tell me, what does a new moon feel like to you? It must be overwhelming, having the mass of the moon positioned above you all day long... 

[B_M_W]

I forgot to add that the tidal force also causes the oceans to lump on the opposite side of the earth to the moon as well, and the tides on either side are about the same. This is why there are two tides in a day and not one.

BMW,

Kicking pseudoscience in the ass, one fallicious arguement at a time.

Edit: And shit. I screwed up: the tides are largest at new and full moons, when the gravitational force of the moon in line with the sun reinforces the tidal force of the sun thus causing larger tides. I thought it was differential force that caused larger tides, but oh well, even I make mistakes once in a while. This would still walk all over your arguement, though, because the tides are strongest at both full and new moon. Which means that my statements still stand.

And, interestingly, if astrology actually meant something, and if it was based on forces we already know to be existant (gravitational and electromagnetic) then Sol and Luna would dominate the charts, and all other bodies would be totally insignificant (Sol being the dominant source for electromagnetic force for us on earth, and Luna being the dominant extraplanetary body responcible for tidal forces; Luna exibits 2 times more gravitational force than the sun on this planet. Its also been said that the earth may be a binary system, the masses of the earth and moon are close enough that the gravitational center of revolution is actually close to the surface of the earth, and not at the core. That has interesting implications in its own right).

Nobody seems to care about the new moon, which is why this arguement is bogus. 

[AFK]

People can be "affected" by anything they want to be "affected" by.  Of course there is a huge difference between conjured and actual. 

someone who wants to blame their mood, or other mental affect on a physical symbol is just being intellectually lazy and close minded to looking for the real reasons lying beneath the flesh.