The Fear and Desire Loop

[Jenne]

You  just have to ignore that.  It's a conditioned response, anyway.  I won't mention the sociopathy involved to get to that stage, however.

Maybe just being aware of how tied you are to others' reactions to you, as equally fucked up as our own are, is part of the answer.  *has no answers, just bulshitting here, obviously*

[LHX]

lets ride that train of thought for a second here tho

because thats the type of shit that crashes


a lot of groups come together out of that desire to be accepted
but
over the past months (/years) we have determined on these forums that there is another reason for people to come together:

they come together when they are in the process of getting something done

because there is some people here (and in some other places) that do not express any fear of being rejected or desire to be accepted


i gotta think about this for a second

[LMNO]

You  just have to ignore that.  It's a conditioned response, anyway.  I won't mention the sociopathy involved to get to that stage, however.

Srsly?  Because isn't that what the compassion and sympathy in a marriage/relationship is all about?  If you don't give a shit about what your husband thinks about you, and your husband doesn't give a shit about what you think, then why the fuck are you two together?

Maybe just being aware of how tied you are to others' reactions to you, as equally fucked up as our own are, is part of the answer.  *has no answers, just bulshitting here, obviously*

That, for me, is one of the lockpicks to the BIP/Machine,Ñ¢.

[AFK]

because there is some people here (and in some other places) that do not express any fear of being rejected or desire to be accepted

what about the fear of being rejected by this collective?
Or the desire to be accepted by it?

And is one ever totally rid of these fears and desires in general?

I will honestly answer for myself the answer is no.  I like to think I'm a macho, I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of me kind of person.  But......I have to admit, I do have some level of desire, in this example, for the rest of you to not think I'm a total dunder-head.  I don't lose sleep on it or anything, but there is some level of it there. 

[DJRubberducky]

Also, just because the fear/desire hasn't been expressed doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

In fact, I would venture that those among us who *do* express it tend to get dismissed as "attention whores".  And simply witnessing that act would prompt somebody in that loop to keep quiet on the topic, since they've then seen that expressing the fear/desire will realize the fear.

[P3nT4gR4m]

there is some people here (and in some other places) that do not express any fear of being rejected or desire to be accepted


i gotta think about this for a second

Internet forums are a good safe place to practice this, no face to face comeback. I find myself posting things then reading it back thinking about how people will respond to this. "Maybe they'll think I'm a fuckhead" pops into my brain from time to time. That's the point where I click the send button and figure "Most of them prolly think I'm a fuckhead anyway. Who gives a shit?" Liberation comes from the realisation that it doesn't matter.

After a while on a forum I usly find I start making friends and shit then I gotta take their feelings into consideration, specifically their feelings toward me." Like I give a shit about what some anonymous text generating organism in some remote corner of the world thinks about me. I usly leave around this point and go find some other bunch of bastards to hang out with.

Sure I want to be accepted but I want to be accepted for who I am and the dumbass shit I stand for. It's the same IRL, short of starting fights I don't really give a toss who I alienate. I got very few friends. None of them are assholes. I'll take quality over quantity every time. The size of my peer group never really interested me. Even at school I used to look at the popular kids and shake my head. If being part of the in-crowd meant I had to dress like that and listen to the shit they played on their walkmans then I was staying the fuck out of it.

what about the fear of being rejected by this collective?
Or the desire to be accepted by it?

And is one ever totally rid of these fears and desires in general?

I will honestly answer for myself the answer is no.  I like to think I'm a macho, I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of me kind of person.  But......I have to admit, I do have some level of desire, in this example, for the rest of you to not think I'm a total dunder-head.  I don't lose sleep on it or anything, but there is some level of it there. 

Attention is attention. Love me or hate me you feed my ego.

[LHX]

because there is some people here (and in some other places) that do not express any fear of being rejected or desire to be accepted

what about the fear of being rejected by this collective?
Or the desire to be accepted by it?

And is one ever totally rid of these fears and desires in general?

I will honestly answer for myself the answer is no.  I like to think I'm a macho, I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of me kind of person.  But......I have to admit, I do have some level of desire, in this example, for the rest of you to not think I'm a total dunder-head.  I don't lose sleep on it or anything, but there is some level of it there. 

maybe thats one of the benefits to the 'what have you done for me lately' approach to things

seriously tho - currently, i depend on feedback mentally the same way i depend on food physically


plus, this collective (for whatever reason) seems to approach things a bit differently

it seems that anybody who comes in with any type of respect whatsoever is always welcomed into the fold

i wrote more but i accidentally deleted it and now it slipped my mind

[AFK]

Troof, though from my perspective, and perhaps others, the intellectual caliber is pretty high.  Could that feed a fear/desire cycle.  Perhaps those who have a desire to join the discourse but so much of a fear of sounding like a mushmouth they do not.  Despite the fact that there does seem to be that air of respectfulness.

So, it's not fear of others shooting you down.  It's fear of you seeing yourself not measuring up. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

So, it's not fear of others shooting you down.  It's fear of you seeing yourself not measuring up. 

That's a potentially healthy fear - might lead to self improvement.

[LHX]

Troof, though from my perspective, and perhaps others, the intellectual caliber is pretty high.  Could that feed a fear/desire cycle.  Perhaps those who have a desire to join the discourse but so much of a fear of sounding like a mushmouth they do not.  Despite the fact that there does seem to be that air of respectfulness.

So, it's not fear of others shooting you down.  It's fear of you seeing yourself not measuring up. 

i guess you might be right

this all feels like digging in ditches, but i can see how the content my be intimidating

[AFK]

At the same time though, (the silver lining?) at least they are reading it and getting it. 

Even if they can't make a contribution, buying into it in of itself is a sort of contribution. 

[Jenne]

You  just have to ignore that.  It's a conditioned response, anyway.  I won't mention the sociopathy involved to get to that stage, however.

Srsly? Because isn't that what the compassion and sympathy in a marriage/relationship is all about? If you don't give a shit about what your husband thinks about you, and your husband doesn't give a shit about what you think, then why the fuck are you two together?

Maybe just being aware of how tied you are to others' reactions to you, as equally fucked up as our own are, is part of the answer.  *has no answers, just bulshitting here, obviously*

That, for me, is one of the lockpicks to the BIP/Machine,Ñ¢.

Eh, I didn't say we didn't.  But, I also don't hinge my existence on whether or not he thinks my ass is too fat, either.  Striking a midpoint somewhere, I believe, is what I've been after.  I've been with this guy since I was 17, so a lot of the ideas we formed about each other were done about a decade or so ago.

That being said, the purpose for marriage is NOT to sit around judging each other, either.  You give a fuck about what they think, but you don't sit and pick their brain every 5 seconds, either.  *shrug*  I can't describe long term relationships any better than that, I really can't.  It's like any other familial relationship after a while, I guess.  It just is.

I figured that particular lockpick would be somewhat hard-to-get yet infinitely desirable...

[Jenne]

Also, just because the fear/desire hasn't been expressed doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

In fact, I would venture that those among us who *do* express it tend to get dismissed as "attention whores". And simply witnessing that act would prompt somebody in that loop to keep quiet on the topic, since they've then seen that expressing the fear/desire will realize the fear.

Have to say that, with this particular group dynamic, I totally agree with you here.

[LMNO]

Jenne, I consider it to be a positive feedback loop.  I care about her opinion, and she cares about mine, so we are aware of how we treat each other, and we do so with respect and compassion.

[Jenne]

That's good, LMNO.  Hopefully you guys will keep that up.

My own marriage is like a well-worn shoe that occasionally gives blisters.