Ideals

[AFK]

take a city dweller - drop them in the forest - give them a path back to the city that lets them go at their own pace - let them make their own decisions

I like this.

And that's how I see it.  Someone living in a city forever has no perception of what it is like to be anywhere else.  Initially, it may seem terrifying.  But after they can see how the might be able to breathe easier, stretch out their legs, have a slower pace, they might want a different path.  Or, they may still choose to go back.  But, at least they know there are other options to revisit later.  

[P3nT4gR4m]

Your mission - teach the masses not to just blindly accept that what someone tells them is how it is

The paradox - they shouldn't really believe you either

exactly

so the focus goes from changing somebodys mind to giving them the tools to change their own mind

Yup. Any other way might make me feel a bit uncomfortable.

no doubt

as well as reason to pick those tools up and put them to use

That's starting to get too close to 'championing a cause' IMO

My motive is because it interests me to attempt to do so.

i see what youre saying

we explored this issue over the past couple of months - and it seems that there is reason to believe that the more people around you are 'free', the more you yourself are free

hypothetically


i am interested to see if that is true

Yeah! Your motive should your own personal interest. Justify it any other way and there can be issues creeping in there.

Personally I'm not sure about the theory. It could be true but it could be that creating a larger, more visible, group of free thinkers might result in massive fury from the machine. Let's do it and find out.

[LHX]

Yeah! Your motive should your own personal interest. Justify it any other way and there can be issues creeping in there.

Personally I'm not sure about the theory. It could be true but it could be that creating a larger, more visible, group of free thinkers might result in massive fury from the machine. Let's do it and find out.

yeeeeeeeeeeah i dig that

besides
the situation on the planet is getting bleak enough as it is

at a certain point, any change is a good change

[Jenne]

That point would be pretty damned bleak, though, LHX.  I don't think that point has been near enough reached yet, in general, to make that true...

On case by case basis, perhaps.

NOT, however, in general.

[P3nT4gR4m]

That point would be pretty damned bleak, though, LHX.  I don't think that point has been near enough reached yet, in general, to make that true...

On case by case basis, perhaps.

NOT, however, in general.

"We park our cars in the same garage"

[LHX]

That point would be pretty damned bleak, though, LHX.  I don't think that point has been near enough reached yet, in general, to make that true...

On case by case basis, perhaps.

NOT, however, in general.

"We park our cars in the same garage"

QFMFT

only as strong as its weakest link
only thriving as much as the one under the most pressure

its all part of saving self
its icing on the cake that it improves the situation for others

[LMNO]

That sounds suspiciously like compassion...   

[P3nT4gR4m]

That sounds suspiciously like compassion...   

Wasn't me. No sir. I was just there, like hating everything in a nihillistic, solipsistical way. Didn't even know the guy guv'nor. LHX? Wasn't that some george lucas soundtrack?

[LHX]

lol

its amazing how sometimes things sound like other things...



good deeds done by accident as a by-product of selfish motivation

sounds like a good plot twist

[Jenne]

LHX, that sounds like the real definition of altruism for Teh Really Real World(tm).

I just have this theory that we don't do anything for others, ever, that doesn't somehow serve our own needs best, however those needs manifest themselves. 

[Hangero]

Universal Ethical Egoism is The Machine(tm).
And there's really nothing ethical about it.

[LMNO]

Expound, please.

[Hangero]

I will a little later, sorry to leave you hanging, but I'm on a laptop with a weird keyboard and it's taking me too long to type.  Also, I can't compose an appropriate response in the mere 10 minutes I have before going out.

[LHX]

LHX, that sounds like the real definition of altruism for Teh Really Real World(tm).

I just have this theory that we don't do anything for others, ever, that doesn't somehow serve our own needs best, however those needs manifest themselves. 

i was typing a response, but then i got confused

did you agree with me or disagree?


i assumed disagree, but that might just be because im generally cranky right here

if it makes any difference, i was being dead serious:

do things for self, and your environment benefits
do things for your environment, you wind up interfering, stepping on toes, and everything gets crossed up

i dont like to quote Crowley, but he said it:
"do as thou wilt..."

[DJRubberducky]

A few years ago, I had "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" explained to me as "really" meaning that once you get settled in to what you're really supposed to be doing in this life, the universe will get out of your way and let you do it.  It sounds like that's similar to what you're saying - take care of yourself first and foremost, and the rest of the universe will take care of itself.  Wait for something else to take care of you because you're busy taking care of other things instead, and, well, you'll be waiting a while.

And in the process of typing that, I suddenly remembered this passage from Alice in Wonderland:

"If everybody minded their own business," the Duchess said in a hoarse growl, "the world would go round a deal faster than it does."