Ideals

[Jenne]

So, what happens to ideals in the BIP?

Are they allowed?

Are they used as a noose?

I think most of the people on this forum have them.  Are they a new rope to hang yourself with?  I often wonder how much we enslave ourselves to them when they are hidden so well within our own mindsets.  They creep out unbeknownst to even the most discerning self-aware thinker (beware the psychobabble sprecht--sorry, have no other way to describe it atm--I'm sure I'll learn more lingo to use anon).

Anyway, I'm just wondering what folks hereabouts would think about so-called Ideals/Idealism.  It does exist here...it fairly echoes throughout the forum's halls.  For a place that decries much of the preset notions that society forcefeeds us, there's a fair bit of dogma (catma, wevertf) nevertheless that creates a soupcon of rigidity to what is to be known/unknown and sought/left behind...

[Benaclypse]

Idealism is great.  I wish more people were idealistic about breaking down the barricades of Eden.  Paradise is something to strive for.

[Jenne]

But, is "paradise" attainable?

And what IS "paradise"?  I'm betting it varies, person to person.  And I'm also willing to bet each person is weighted down by a notion of "paradise" that's carried from childhood-on.

[Hangero]

I don't know if it's an ideal, because I don't know if it will ever bring me happiness (or if that even really exists), but the endless pursuit of Truth and Knowledge drive me.  It might be an ideal or not.

Ideals usually leave me bitter because so many of them are impossible, but I think sense a definite ideal behind all of this (The board, BIP, PD, and so on), even if it is as simple as waking people up.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't know if it's an ideal, because I don't know if it will ever bring me happiness (or if that even really exists), but the endless pursuit of Truth and Knowledge drive me.  It might be an ideal or not.

I'm just in it for the cheap laffs.

[Jenne]

I think ideals set us up for ultimate failure.  NOT in all things, but primarily in whatever premise you set out to achieve proof for.

Maybe as long as you realize and acknowledge said failure, or possibility thereof, it's ok.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I think ideals set us up for ultimate failure.  NOT in all things, but primarily in whatever premise you set out to achieve proof for.

Maybe as long as you realize and acknowledge said failure, or possibility thereof, it's ok.

I switched ideals for a personal code of integrity years ago. Me versus me as opposed to me versus them.

[LMNO]

I like where you're going, Jenne.  Please expound on the nature of Ideals, and why you think they might run counter to the ideas of the BIP.


This is an angle I don't think we have taken yet.  Good work.

[AFK]

I think ideals set us up for ultimate failure.  NOT in all things, but primarily in whatever premise you set out to achieve proof for.

Maybe as long as you realize and acknowledge said failure, or possibility thereof, it's ok.

I guess the key would be to have Realistic Ideals.  Be a Realistic Idealist.

Like, it would be Ideal if everyone "woke up" to see some or all of what they have seemingly been blind to. 

However, it's probably quite delusional to think that would ever happen.  Hell, it's probably delusional to think even 1% of 6 billion would buy into it. 

But then again, is that the goal.  I don't think so.  I think it is to offer vision, or, the chance to have vision, or to be aware of the "Ideal" of vision.  Those who wish explore the "Ideal", those who don't continue on their merry way.  Perhaps some those who explore the "Ideal" of vision say, "Eh, I'm Okay" and also continue as they were. 

Am I making any sense or am I just muddying the waters?  Because I've been pretty good at that lately in the offline world. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Setting your sights on waking everybody up is the kind of fucking stoopid thing that only an idiot like myself could ever dream up (true story) But resolving to help as many as you can is realistic, sensible whilst still aiming at the same end.

[LHX]

what in the blazes would be the opposite of having ideals?

yeah the notion of a future with a non-ending series of vague or severe tribulations sounds real appealing


does that qualify?
having ideals about what you know you DONT want?


im willing to head to paradise wherever it is and in whatever form it comes

[AFK]

what in the blazes would be the opposite of having ideals?

good point/question.

Is there such a thing as a person without ideals?

I mean, wouldn't deciding you were just going to live on the couch watching CSI 24 hours a day still constitute some sort of ideal?

[LHX]

i dig what is being said here tho

there needs to be a exploration of how people can viably live together on a planet in this universe - without causing each other more problems or undue stress


anybody who says it isnt possible prolly wont help something like that come to fruition

[LHX]

also - it seems that 'ideals' get challenged from more than 1 angle:

there is the angle where even good things arent as 'romantic' or 'thrilling' as some may have been hoping

and there is the 'more fun than you really wanted' angle that we are reminded of around these boards

[AFK]

also - it seems that 'ideals' get challenged from more than 1 angle:

there is the angle where even good things arent as 'romantic' or 'thrilling' as some may have been hoping

and there is the 'more fun than you really wanted' angle that we are reminded of around these boards

yup, I think childbirth is a good example of the first.  Not that bringing a child into the world isn't rewarding, it is.  However, the 'romantic' and 'thrilling' ideals before the event are quickly replaced by 'sleep-deprived' and 'trying'

And that is a case where not thinking it through can result in a drastic mistake.  You think making a child is going to be peachy and keen and cute.  Then it happens.  Then, perhaps one or both of the parents check out because it wasn't what they bargained for.  Then you have 3 fucked up people.