Principia Discordia > Think for Yourself, Schmuck!
A Realistic Way for People to Live Together
BADGE OF HONOR:
Well there is enforcement but it's only social contract and it only works so long as both people are happy about the situation. First time the toilet overflows... :lol:
AFK:
--- Quote from: LHX on December 18, 2006, 04:39:38 am ---is somebody going to bring up the 'humans are humans and probably wont live like this' argument?
--- End quote ---
fixed to my perspective.
My reasoning:
I say that humans have the potential and can live like that. However, the track record isn't good. And I think there are too many of us. Back in the days of nomads and when groups of people were separated by vast stretches of unpopulated land all was, relatively, peaceful. But when tribes, groups cross paths, watch out.
I think History is one of the biggest Gorillas you have to wrestle with here. If you could somehow wipe out the memories, cultures, etc. of the current human population you would have an excellent chance of making these rules work.
There is too much suspicion and envy that has been built into the human society.
For example,
If you were somehow able to actually bring about some peace between the Israel and Palestine I think it would be a finite truce, not infinte. Because, even though no shots are being fired. Even though no one is blowing themselves up at a bistro, there will always be that suspicion. "Hmm, I wonder what they are thinking about?"
I think, eventually, the suspicion and uncertainty would boil over for some pathetic reason like somone coughed without covering their mouth. "Infidel, you try to poison me with you cold germs!" And then it all starts again.
So, that is the problem I see. Too much history of conflict. I wonder, could the human race actually function/exist without conflict?
Laz:
From what i understand of your proposal LHX, you can at most only be talking about half of the population.
If you could isolate that half and bugger off somewhere, you would have a reasonable chance of making the society function. However you would have to make sure the people you have are all of the right type cause if there are any imposters or any of the chaos lot can get to you, you gain absolutely nothing.
In fact i'm not sure even the psyche of the good is all rule following and no mischief so perhaps your rule set could go:
Agree to:
- to never come over without being invited
- never to set in motion a process that results in any unnecessary disturbance in your vicinity (sirens, alarms, explosions, etc)
- unless otherwise requested, all communications will be placed at a 3rd party location, and will be placed there with the understanding that they may never be retreived or responded to
- never ask for a favor
- make available anything that i have an abundance of for you to use or not use as you see fit
- every now and then throw a swerve ball, avoid all the rules, muck about and act stupid, lie, cheat, and get it out of your system.
the only ones that will follow rules religiously are the machines we create to do our bidding, anything organic is gonna screw up the system.
LHX:
--- Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on December 18, 2006, 02:57:44 pm ---
--- Quote from: LHX on December 18, 2006, 04:39:38 am ---is somebody going to bring up the 'humans are humans and probably wont live like this' argument?
--- End quote ---
fixed to my perspective.
My reasoning:
I say that humans have the potential and can live like that. However, the track record isn't good. And I think there are too many of us. Back in the days of nomads and when groups of people were separated by vast stretches of unpopulated land all was, relatively, peaceful. But when tribes, groups cross paths, watch out.
I think History is one of the biggest Gorillas you have to wrestle with here. If you could somehow wipe out the memories, cultures, etc. of the current human population you would have an excellent chance of making these rules work.
There is too much suspicion and envy that has been built into the human society.
For example,
If you were somehow able to actually bring about some peace between the Israel and Palestine I think it would be a finite truce, not infinte. Because, even though no shots are being fired. Even though no one is blowing themselves up at a bistro, there will always be that suspicion. "Hmm, I wonder what they are thinking about?"
I think, eventually, the suspicion and uncertainty would boil over for some pathetic reason like somone coughed without covering their mouth. "Infidel, you try to poison me with you cold germs!" And then it all starts again.
So, that is the problem I see. Too much history of conflict. I wonder, could the human race actually function/exist without conflict?
--- End quote ---
yeah - this is definitely not something that would fly right now wiff the current population
the context of the discussion was more along the lines of 'after something
a 'rebuild right' type of scenario
i would also venture to say tho that 'suspicion' is a tendency that stems from a strange (and perhaps perverse) fear of the unknown
if you can function without conflict, then we can function without conflict (just a hunch)
LHX:
--- Quote from: Laz on December 18, 2006, 04:04:48 pm ---From what i understand of your proposal LHX, you can at most only be talking about half of the population.
If you could isolate that half and bugger off somewhere, you would have a reasonable chance of making the society function. However you would have to make sure the people you have are all of the right type cause if there are any imposters or any of the chaos lot can get to you, you gain absolutely nothing.
--- End quote ---
i see what youre saying - but like i said to RWHN - the only way to transition from this (what we are in now) to that would be nothing short of a complete re-building scenario
whatever that entails
--- Quote from: Laz on December 18, 2006, 04:04:48 pm ---In fact i'm not sure even the psyche of the good is all rule following and no mischief so perhaps your rule set could go:
--- End quote ---
like i said - i know people are allergic to rules
im more trying to define what it means to be free, while still having respect for people who share the same place you do
--- Quote from: Laz on December 18, 2006, 04:04:48 pm ---
- every now and then throw a swerve ball, avoid all the rules, muck about and act stupid, lie, cheat, and get it out of your system.
--- End quote ---
i dont see the problem with that
lie cheat and steal all you want as long as it doesnt affect other people
people can fornicate with trees, sleep all day, stay drunk, unhygenic, etc etc
but what im sayin, or trying to say in polite terms,
is that when you act a fool in somebody elses vicinity - unnecessarily and purposely - you are inviting them to cut you down
it really has less to do with rules and more to do with determining what respect is
and what responsibility a person really has toward another person
--- Quote from: Laz on December 18, 2006, 04:04:48 pm ---the only ones that will follow rules religiously are the machines we create to do our bidding, anything organic is gonna screw up the system.
--- End quote ---
not everything organic is self-destructive
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