Making Occult Studies more Accessible

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Time to shave my head again.

Twid
gets the urge to tear his hair out when the phrase "burning times" is used.

[Don Coyote]

Time to shave my head again.

Twid
gets the urge to tear his hair out when the phrase "burning times" is used.

I do believe that the "burning times" actually refers to some manner of infectious disease that infests large numbers of pagans.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

When will they learn that you gotta keep the athame sheathed when you dip it into the ritual chalice?

[Cain]

That is relevant to my interests.  I suggest a new thread, to get out of this mire. It's full of werewolves, and unicorns, and rabbis.

If you start it, I'll bring the material, when I have it.

I have fairly decent information on stuff dating back to around WWII...but anything earlier than that is going to be mostly conjecture and guesswork.  I may include some information on the Nizari Assassin sect, for example...but it would be mostly to elucidate more recent innovations based on their model of operation, for example.

[Cain]

I have to admit, I never really got my head around the "remote viewing" thing. I'd never rule out the possibility completely but it strikes me as so ridiculously unlikely that I've never really investigated it. Occult stuff has two broad fields of potential practical application the way I see it:

1) Exerting influence over individuals and/or groups. I'm pretty sure everything you could learn about this by studying dusty old tomes is available in much less esoteric format, under such headings as NLP, hypnosis, cold-reading, psychoanalysis and the like

2) Metaprogramming the self. There's a lot of information available in this sphere also but I've never encountered anything that provides as complete a framework as some of the more established occult systems. I wouldn't discount the possibility that I've just never read the right books but anytime I've looked at established theories, I've been struck by how rudimentary it is in comparison.

I'm pretty suspicious about the validity of remote viewing as well.  However, the intelligence agencies seem obsessed by it.  Ingo Swann worked for the CIA on Project Stargate, for example, after working at the Stanford Research Institute (a very strange and highly financed think-tank and contract research agency with massive political clout), and there were rumours of people involved in such programs being reactivated in the wake of 9/11 to help hunt down terrorists.  Allegedly.

Most of the material I've got will probably relate to section 1.  While it seems quite likely that some of the CIA interest in the occult was transmitted via the Project Paperclip Nazis recruited for the Cold War, and thus there was always that tendency within the agency, it really took off when researching ways to combat Communist insurgencies in the Third World, and thus necessitated manipulation of foreign populations via psychological operations.  For instance, one plan against Castro was to fake the Second Coming of Jesus, in hope of sparking a revolt in Cuba.  My suspicion is that somewhere inbetween mucking around with mind-control, interrogation drugs, religious research and psychological warfare, the CIA stumbled across some basic keys and drivers of personal and social psychology, and used that knowledge to manipulate domestic groups according to their own agenda, which as anyone familiar with Cold War history knows, was highly right-wing at points, with more than a whiff of fascism.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I vaguely recall watching some documentary or reading an article that suggested that a large factor in the  psychic spys thing was a result of cold war dis or mis-information. Basically the US got wind that the russians had managed to do something or were conducting experiments and the yanks decided they had to investigate just to make sure the ruskies weren't onto something. It isn't hard to imagine a feedback loop once the filthy commies found out for reals that the Us were training people to see through walls and kill with a dirty look and shit.

I mean, lets face it, we're talking about guys who believed they had a real-life giant invisible deity on their side. Probably wasn't too much of a leap of faith for them

[Cain]

Depending on who you speak to, the idea that the Russians forced America's hand into researching it in the first place is disinformation to deny the CIA's very real interest in more esoteric methods of intelligence gathering.  There is also a lot of disinformation about the effectiveness about said program, on every side.  I don't have the sources to hand, unfortunately, but it's fair to say pretty much anyone could go looking and find "evidence" for the position they wished to take.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Well its a little stranger with the soviets since communism tends to be emphatically atheist. Though we are talking about a country that only recently admitted that beer isnt food.

[Cain]

The Soviets never had an especially good relationship with science though.  Remember Lysenkoism?  The Soviets also considered certain aspects of scientific research to be "bourgeoise pseudoscience" and so had to develop some pretty out-there theories to account for existing phenomena.

In addition to that, the Soviets also scored a decent amount of Nazi personnel and research at the end of WWII, just like America did.  Though not as compliant as the Project Paperclip scientists, they likely planted the seeds of more occult theories in the minds of Soviet intelligence officers and researchers.

[The Rev]

I'm gonna turn all you fucking hippies in to frogs.

[P3nT4gR4m]

*invokes the wiccan law and turns Charley into three frogs*

[The Rev]

*invokes the wiccan law and turns Charley into three frogs*

[Nephew Twiddleton]

[Telarus]

 



Seriously, this is good shit Cain. And the sort of stuff that makes it extremely clear why the word 'Occult' has stuck around.



The word itself is a weaponized meme aimed at a certain segment of the population... let's call them "The Audience". It's there to serve as a screen, to stir up misinformation, to "blur" reality so that you can manipulate the Audience's expectations (per Teller of Pen & Teller), and as a spiked lined pit-trap for those you'd want to mislead into dangerous territory.

Let's recognize, as well, that in any application of occult processes to an organization or structure (like the  mentioned CIA activities), there are members of "The Audience" within your own organization.

I think this Frank Luntz-like meta-manipulation may be something that turns Rog/ECH/etc off from the term (& related thought structures). That's conjecture,. tho. Not sure if they're still paying attention to this thread....

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Seriously, this is good shit Cain. And the sort of stuff that makes it extremely clear why the word 'Occult' has stuck around.



The word itself is a weaponized meme aimed at a certain segment of the population... let's call them "The Audience". It's there to serve as a screen, to stir up misinformation, to "blur" reality so that you can manipulate the Audience's expectations (per Teller of Pen & Teller), and as a spiked lined pit-trap for those you'd want to mislead into dangerous territory.

Let's recognize, as well, that in any application of occult processes to an organization or structure (like the  mentioned CIA activities), there are members of "The Audience" within your own organization.

I think this Frank Luntz-like meta-manipulation may be something that turns Rog/ECH/etc off from the term (& related thought structures). That's conjecture,. tho. Not sure if they're still paying attention to this thread....

I think you're exactly right.