What is this section about (n00bs read this!)

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

heh.


"Map is not the Territory" is one of those buzz phrases that means, "don't treat the conclusions your mind makes about the things your senses perceive as the One and Only True Reality". 

"The menu is not the meal" is another way of saying it.


"occult studies" in these parts means extending the Law of Fives to ridiculous extremes for fun and profit.

This is all about using buzz phrases to describe a culture of soundbites?  Am I reading this right, sir?

Think about this. Every word we use is a metaphor. There is no such thing as "Yellow", there is a specific range of light frequencies that humans can see which they (if they are english) semantically link to "Yellow". We can deconstruct pretty much every word in every language in the same way. Words are not things, they're verbal noises that we humans have semantically linked to concepts/ideas/thoughts/experiences. This goes even further, because every concept we talk about (or write about), we do through metaphor. This means that the concept must be translated into metaphor then retranslated from metaphor into thoughts. Further, it's likely to be based on data which was translated by your neurological system into something you thought you understood. With all that translation, we're likely to miss something.

If you use the taxonomic tree as a reference, thats fine. If you hold it as TRUTH, then you've eaten the Menu.
If you look at the bible as a compilation of  philosophy, religion, politics and myth, thats fine. If you believe that it IS THE INERRANT Word Of God!!!!!!! then you just ate the menu and half of the table cloth.

The map of a territory doesn't really show us ALL of the territory. It shows us a general subset of data (based on the type of map). Different maps may show us the same territory, but from different perspectives. For example, if I have three maps of Columbus Ohio, one road map, one topographic map and one of the sewage system, they may display different data. Each map has value in some sense and may be useless in another (the topo map may have no value if we're trying to find the broken sewer line, but the sewer map seems unlikely to direct you to my home). Every philosophy is a map. All of them model the territory using some set of metaphors. Some of them try to make the metaphors as boring as possible, some make the metaphors sound like "Here There Be Dragons!", yet each of them may be able to give us 'some' useful information about the territory (reality).

[Discord]

Its best described as "We all live in our own world"
in best case we created the metaphors and the links we have our own interpretation of each word and therefor, if we get in touch with "another world" meaning another (human) being there is misunderstanding.
Are these metaphors everyone has bars in our bip? Are they necassary?

[Forteetu]

Are these metaphors everyone has bars in our bip? Are they necassary?

From what I get out of the BIP so far (re-reading a few bits), our language for sure its a part of the cell we're in, to use that analogy. I'm not so sure about the BIP's take on the necessity, like I said, I'm re-reading and digesting to let points sink in and grids form. From my point of view tho ... a necessity indeed. Like with the illusion of seperation, these are games we have agreed to and all of these things are aspects of the game.

When it comes to communication, the game gets real complicated real quick. There's what I want to express here. There is what I would choose to say if we were speaking face to face. There is what I mold that into for the purpose of written text. All three, very different things. There is what you read. There is what you hear in your mind to fill in the gaps of the written text. There is the missing bit you would get from inflection, tone and body language if we were talking face to face. And finally there is how that affects you and your resultant action or feeling. Inefficient, messy, prone to failure and complexity .... isn't it beautiful??

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

*applause*

Nicely stated forteetu!

[Forteetu]

*applause*

Nicely stated forteetu!

thnx ... i have rare moments

probably won't happen again for another 500 posts

[ybom]

Wakes we monder mhy me haven't used a better language universally (God, English sucks ass) in the last ~100 years.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I like English... I think it's a very flexible language.

[Triple Zero]

it doesnt really matter anyway. english has its flaws but so do all natural languages. cause they're grown organically.

steven pinker makes a good point in his book "language instinct" for why this is a good thing, or why it happens, or at the very least why we're not all speaking a squeaky clean version of esperanto yet (or will ever).

[Wind rider]

English is very flexible if you know it well enough, but as a second language it must be extremely confusing, just think for a minute and see how many words you know that mean something comepletely different in different contexts.

[Mourning Star]

HEY! MY MOTHER DIED FROM DIFFERENT CONTEXTS! FUCK YOU!

[Triple Zero]

English is very flexible if you know it well enough, but as a second language it must be extremely confusing, just think for a minute and see how many words you know that mean something comepletely different in different contexts.

1. ambiguity is abundantly present in every natural language

2. english is my second language

3. in fact, most people i know have english as second language and they don't seem terribly confused (most of the time) (and not because of speaking english, anyway)

[TheLastLump]

Personally, I don't think anything should really be changed in the original BIP. It tackles everything it needs to in order- realizing you're imprisoned by your own mind, figuring out how to see the prison itself, realizing that you can change it, and learning how.

I also liked that it had, as a finale, tips on maintaining your identity within the Machine so as not to be eaten by it. I would even go so far as to say it's an inspiorational "Freedom Fighter"-esque manual on survival, but with the goal not being to march on an imaginary "capitol of t3h world" to free everyone, but to show people that THEY are in control and are the ones creating the injutices.

As for the differences between the PD and BIP, I think it's like Lysergic said: PD is more of a "Come to know us better when you're ready, and see what we show you" thing, where BIP is for those who already have read the PD and wish to know more about the Con. Think of the Principia as the Old Testament of the Bible. It's everything you need to know about Eris, Discordia itself, and Life's greatest questions. The BIP is the New Testament, but written as the things it's talking about are actually HAPPENING. It's a guide to doing your part, should you wish to do anything.

Don't get it twisted- I'm not saying it's some fanatical Qu'ran to follow to your death; I'm saying it's something to get you through any persecution you may face when the Government starts declaring people as Threats. And they will, eventually. We've been living in a Communist state all along ^.^

BIP should remain the same on the Principiadiscordia.com site, but if there MUST be a change, it should be in a second, "BIP: Optimized for maximum dispersal!" format (like everyone's been talking about) that can be left in funny places to attract attention.

[LMNO]

Tha above post has been nominated for the 2008 award for "Best First Post, Ever."

[Cramulus]

seconded

[AFK]

::joins the chorus::

I re-read the original BIP the other day.  And I still say we hit it out of the park when we (I mean LMNO) threw that thing together.  Yeah, it's very direct, but I think it's also a varied direct.  I still find myself nodding and thinking "troof" as I'm reading the various writings.